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Beware the Ides at the Palazzo


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Greetings to everyone

This is my first post since last October as I did not play anytime from November thru January due to other commitments. However, when I returned from my final trip to the Panama Canal, I was ready to hit the Palazzo again. Unfortunately, I was in for a very unpleasant surprise.

First of all, Stadium Gaming (per se) is no more. They have renamed the area Imperial Baccarat, ditched the roulette wheel and added a second Baccarat dealer. They now have two dealers, each dealing two games, so there a four ongoing Baccarat games at one time. When I first went back to play in February, I thought that was going to give me more possibilities for MDB+. Nothing could have been further from the truth.

Since I hadn't played for 3 months, I only recorded games to start with to see how things were going. As it turned out, I never stopped recording games, or started playing MDB+ before I gave up. In the 45 shoes that I recorded, I would (had I played) have won only 15 of them and lost the other 30. That would have (but fortunately didn't) given back everything that I made in all my previous play. It looks like they did something to their automatic shufflers that makes MDB+ almost impossible to win with, at least at the Palazzo. So, it you are an MDB+ player the only suggestion I would have for you is to forget everything I said in my previous posts and stay away from Imperial Baccarat at the Palazzo.

That being said, I also have a warning for NOR players that might want to play there. As Ellis has said many times, MDB+ is for random shoes and NOR is for biased shoes. Obviously, if the current games at the Palazzo are not random they should be biased and, in fact, I saw a lot of biases while doing MDB+ paper play. But here is the rub and the warning.

As I previously mentioned, they now deal 4 games at one time. My guess is, and I have nothing but anecdotal proof, is that after they shuffle an 8 deck sequence, they do not put it back into the same game shoe to be dealt. Instead they stick it into another game's dealing shoe. While I might see a particular bias in say, game #!, the next time that bias appeared it was in game #4. Or a game #2 bias might show up again, but in game #3 this time. There was no observable bias, from deck to deck, within any one game. If you are going to play NOR there just be aware that a bias you see in one game is probably not going to continue, at least not in that game. So save your NOR play for a mid shoe entry, if possible.

For me, not being able to currently play at the black level, the old Stadium Gaming was my ticket to get there, since it took me from single red to green play. However, it seems that path is now solidly blocked. I'm glad that way2fast, and other players, are still having good results at their level playing MDB+ and I will get there one day, I hope. Although I originally had not planned to attend the Universal 2Hi seminar, I just signed up this morning. I hope it is as good as Ellis has been posting. If so, that should be able to give me (or any of us) the pathway to higher denomination chip play. See you there.

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Hi Spec, welcome back!

Sorry to hear about Palazzo. I never liked the stadium game, and liked Palazzo's live bac games even less. Every time i walk through and mentally "chart" the games, they basically suck and are all over the place. Can't put my finger on it, but every other casino I have been in seems "better" and "easier." Might just be in my head, or maybe there is something to it.

There has been some good net betting ideas here while you were away. Might want to take a look at the "NB2Hi -- potential rules" thread. Been having good success while risking very little. I'm sure the new NB approach Ellis is talking about will be worth a good look. Just waiting for more info and proven test results.

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way2fast, Thanks for the "heads up"on the NB2hi thread. I've printed it out and skimmed it, but I will wait until after this weekend's seminar to really study it, along with Ellis's new Universal 2hi rules. I agree, the Palazzo is weird. I am not sure how they have their shuffle machines programmed, but they give out an unusual, and frequently mind boggling, assortment of shoes. It did not seem to affect Stadium Gaming (Imperial Baccarat) originally, but it sure does now. I've been glad to read that MDB+ is still working for you at the various high roller no-touch games. I still hope to get their eventually. Unfortunately, with my luck, that's when they will become unplayable (that's a joke, I hope).

Dcur; I will try to find them. I usually treat any scorecard where I actually played, like gold, but after recording the first few of the "new" shoes at Imperial Baccarat, i started "circular filing" them before I left the casino. I probably should have kept them, but frustration makes you do stupid things sometimes. I think I have a few from the first day I went back, but I have seem to lost them in the shuffle. I will look for them after this weekend's seminar and will post as many as I can find. The one think I can tell you from memory, is that they seem to have come up with a way of "clumping" 2's & 3, so that after you get your MDB+ entry signal you do not see a "win" (ex. a 3 until after 3 more 2's show up, or a 2 until after 3 more 3 show up). This causes you to have gone thru your 3 bet sequence and lost, before you could win. A 4 level progression might work, but then you would be putting too much money on the line, in my opinion

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way2fast, Thanks for the "heads up"on the NB2hi thread. I've printed it out and skimmed it, but I will wait until after this weekend's seminar to really study it, along with Ellis's new Universal 2hi rules.

Hi Spec, just to make sure I have not created confusion -- the NB2Hi thread i referred you to has some rules on how I started playing a Chop and Streak method in different parts of the shoe. It is different that what Ellis has now developed, which sounds like a universal way to play a 2Hi system for any shoe type. I'm sure it will be an interesting weekend seeing and learning U2Hi -- hope you have fun.

The one think I can tell you from memory, is that they seem to have come up with a way of "clumping" 2's & 3, so that after you get your MDB+ entry signal you do not see a "win" (ex. a 3 until after 3 more 2's show up, or a 2 until after 3 more 3 show up). This causes you to have gone thru your 3 bet sequence and lost, before you could win. A 4 level progression might work, but then you would be putting too much money on the line, in my opinion

Don't go to a 4 level progression, rather, wait for an event to occur 3 times before starting your progression. This is something I have started to implement for those signals with a lower historical win percentage. This approach will reduce the number of MDB+ signals, but will increase the win percentage. As I move up to even higher units I will probably implement this for all signals, and also lower my shoe win target from 4-5 units to 2-3 units.

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Hi Spec, just to make sure I have not created confusion -- the NB2Hi thread i referred you to has some rules on how I started playing a Chop and Streak method in different parts of the shoe. It is different that what Ellis has now developed, which sounds like a universal way to play a 2Hi system for any shoe type. I'm sure it will be an interesting weekend seeing and learning U2Hi -- hope you have fun.

Don't go to a 4 level progression, rather, wait for an event to occur 3 times before starting your progression. This is something I have started to implement for those signals with a lower historical win percentage. This approach will reduce the number of MDB+ signals, but will increase the win percentage. As I move up to even higher units I will probably implement this for all signals, and also lower my shoe win target from 4-5 units to 2-3 units.

Thanks way2fast,

that's a great piece of advice

Pando

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way2fast, Thanks for the "heads up"on the NB2hi thread. I've printed it out and skimmed it, but I will wait until after this weekend's seminar to really study it, along with Ellis's new Universal 2hi rules. I agree, the Palazzo is weird. I am not sure how they have their shuffle machines programmed, but they give out an unusual, and frequently mind boggling, assortment of shoes. It did not seem to affect Stadium Gaming (Imperial Baccarat) originally, but it sure does now. I've been glad to read that MDB+ is still working for you at the various high roller no-touch games. I still hope to get their eventually. Unfortunately, with my luck, that's when they will become unplayable (that's a joke, I hope).

Dcur; I will try to find them. I usually treat any scorecard where I actually played, like gold, but after recording the first few of the "new" shoes at Imperial Baccarat, i started "circular filing" them before I left the casino. I probably should have kept them, but frustration makes you do stupid things sometimes. I think I have a few from the first day I went back, but I have seem to lost them in the shuffle. I will look for them after this weekend's seminar and will post as many as I can find. The one think I can tell you from memory, is that they seem to have come up with a way of "clumping" 2's & 3, so that after you get your MDB+ entry signal you do not see a "win" (ex. a 3 until after 3 more 2's show up, or a 2 until after 3 more 3 show up). This causes you to have gone thru your 3 bet sequence and lost, before you could win. A 4 level progression might work, but then you would be putting too much money on the line, in my opinion

Spec9: Thanks for your reply...looking forward to some of your 45 shoe samples, if you are able to locate some of them.

How much time do you have to place your bets at the Palazzo Imperial Bac game with 2 live dealers between rounds? Are they on the clock, like Online, or do they give players a little time in between rounds? Can you describe the set up? Highest and lowest limits for Bac betting? Thank you for any input when you get time. Good Hunting and Success to all of you this coming weekend !!!!

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