The Art Of Net Betting

[Guest]

By E. Clifton Davis

What is net betting?

No one else can or does teach it. It is a process wherein we bet two opposing progs at the same time and only table bet the net difference of the two progs usually on the side with the higher “entry”.

What can we net bet?

We can net bet BvP, OvR or OTB4L v TB4L. (OTvT)

We can also net bet double time before last. Instead of going by the hand before last we go by the hand before that. But lets just concentrate on the main three “bases” for now.

How do we net bet?

We subtract the Lo entry from the Hi entry and table bet the difference usually* on the side with the highest entry. When the two entries are equal we have no table bet that hand.

*Flat Bet Net Bet option:

We can flat bet at one unit. Here we simply flat bet at one unit regardless of the difference in the entries. Here also we usually flat bet on the side with the LOWEST entry instead of the highest entry. This is because the Lo side is the side that is currently winning the most hands, ie., the Lo side is the Strong Side of the moment.

Note: Flat Bet Net Bet on the Lo side likes High Disparity. But, we can also simply bet With the disparity in high disparity shoes.

For instance: When Opposites are much stronger than repeats we can simply bet a prog on Opposites.

But the advantage of Flat Bet Net Bet on the Lo side is if the shoe changes, the side you are betting changes with the shoe. We could say that Flat bet Net bet on the Lo side follows the shoe at hand.

Note that with regular net betting we MUST bet the high side. If we bet the low side we would always lose our highest bet.

Caution:

Those of you interested in this flat bet Lo side option need to thoroughly study it first because there are certain tricks to it. Or you may want to wait for us to cover it.

Important: The most important aspect of flat betting is Quit when you are ahead.

When do we select net betting? (We are back to normal Hi Side net betting)

Net betting works best in low Disparity (difference).

When B and P is running about equal we can net bet BvP

When O and R is running near equal we can net bet OvR

When OTB4L, TB4L is running close we can net bet OvT

Important: Whenever the count of whatever we are net betting crosses 0, our Player Advantage is at optimum. This suggests that there are optimum quitting points when net betting.

Betting unopposed:

The most important aspect of net betting is knowing when to suspend betting a prog. Our standard is after two losing bets. However it is decidedly best to adjust this number to the shoe you are playing. SAP charting is the most accurate way to do this. You can also go by which bet you are usually winning.

For instance: If you are suspending after two losing bets but you note that you usually would have won the third bet, you simply change to suspending after 3 losing bets.

Important: When one prog suspends (stops) betting the other prog continues right on betting “unopposed”. This is how net betting takes advantage of long runs.

Example:

Suppose we are net betting B vs. P and we get an 8 in a row Bank. Well if we didn’t suspend betting on the P side after two losses the 8 would kill us. BUT by suspending P after two losses we are betting unopposed on the Bank run from the third Bank on.

Resume:

We usually resume betting on the suspended side after it has a paper win. However in some shoes we see that we are usually losing our resume bet. In this case, we simply resume after two paper wins in a row instead of 1. Sporadic 1’s can cause a resume after 2 wins condition.

What kind of progs can we net bet?

We can net bet ANY progs from a simple 1234 negative prog (Back to 1 on all wins) all the way up to a full blown Fibonaci.

U1D2 M2, U1D1 M2, U1D1 M3 B2 Whatever.

Usually when we use a 1234 neg prog we keep it 2Hi by changing a 1 vs 4 to a 2 vs 4.

The important thing here is to match your betting aggression to the quality of the table.

Why we net bet:

Let’s say that Smitty and I ended up next to each other at a Bac table. Smitty decides to bet a 1234 negative (up as you lose) progression on Bank. I happen to be playing a 1234 on Player. Let’s say the disparity is dead neutral and we both end up winning 25 units. We go to lunch together and compare notes.

I remark that we both did very well but it’s too bad that we always end up betting against each other. So I say, I wonder what would happen if we didn’t. Let’s say you have a 3 bet on Bank and I have a 1 bet on Player. Instead of betting against each other, I won’t bet at all and you just bet the difference or 2 on Bank. So we get our cards out and try that. Low and behold, we find that we both still win 25 units. But, we bet a whole lot less to win that 25 units so our player advantage (ROI, Return On Investment, units bet divided by units won) is a whole lot higher (double digit) AND our commission is cut almost in half!

Here’s all we did: We subtracted the low bet from the high bet and whoever had the high bet, bet only the difference between the two bets while the guy with the low bet didn’t bet at all. Yep, as strange as it may seem, we both end up making exactly the same as before but now we do it betting a lot less money (less risk) while paying a lot less commission (higher reward). Therefore our player advantage goes from about 13% to about 23%. Anything that increases your player advantage is a giant step in the right direction. Player advantage is a perfect measurement of performance. Yes, that 23% player advantage directly compares to the 0.5% player advantage that BJ card counters strive to obtain, but never do. Yep, even Kenny Houston. Maybe that gives you some idea why I keep saying that BJ card counting is a bunch of hogwash. It’s good for three groups, casinos, card counting book sellers, and movie makers.

So we go back and play 4 more shoes this new exciting way. But this time we play black instead of green because we can afford to because we are betting far less units than before. Lets say the table remains the same (just a little far fetched) and we each now average 25 black unit’s a shoe and go to supper.

I say Smitty, this is real good but it is ridiculous. Every hand, only one of us is betting. Once we figure out what the bet is, why don’t we BOTH bet it. We get our cards out and try that. Low and behold, we now EACH average 50 black unit’s a shoe. See, isn’t mathematics magical? So why do we net bet? To greatly improve our performance, win a whole lot more while betting a whole lot less and reducing our risk and our commission. Yep, that example is precisely true and accurate as strange as it may seem. And, one player can do it all. You don't need a partner.

But Remember, only net bet when the conditions are right - LOW DISPARITY!

Edited July 19, 2015 by Guest

[Baccarat A]

I basically understand the concept of net betting but I have a question as to what to do after you go otr. I am net betting a simple u1d2 progression. The playing system doesn't matter for this question so we have a red side and a green side. I go otr on the red side and suspend betting on the green side. The last losing bet on the green side is 4. After several winning bets the red side loses and the green side has a paper win. I believe that the red side should now show a bet of 2 and my dilemma is the bet for the green side. I think that it should be 5 (up 1 in the progression) resulting in a green table bet of 3. Is this correct or do we restart the green side at 1.

[ECD]

Esp. "after several winning bets" you would be better off to restart at 1. You've already recuped your loss so why take unnecessary risks. But your main problem is that S40 does not really lend itself to net betting because why go OTR when the other prog is already OTR. Just suspend the losing prog instead. But that is the same as net betting O vs R which isn't bad but not the best. OvR is good in neutral shoes that do not strongly favor O or R but can get pretty hairy in shoes that DO strongly favor O or R.

A better choice for net betting would be AD (Across Down) one prog is betting across after a repeat and down (from its last bet) after an opposite. But the other prog is doing exactly the same thing and following exactly the same rules so disparity, which is usually the nemesis of net betting, is NOT an issue with ADN and our players have found it to be the BEST way to net bet. However, it is not W/O issues. When you follow those rules precisely you will find that whenever you hit a TT run (BB PP BB PP) one of your progs will win every bet while the other prog loses every bet. So we have to again, suspend the losing prog in TT runs just like we suspend a prog in straight or ZZ runs with OvR.

I'm trying to "fix" this and I suggested something to try over on the ADN thread just this morning. Since you are interested in net betting you might want to join us over on the ADN thread. I realize you would be starting over with a new system but I'm confident that ADN is a better application of net betting than OvR or S40N. See what you think.

[Baccarat A]

Thanks for the advice. I'll check it out.

[Stvcstll24]

I just became a member a few days ago and I am taking everything in like a sponge. I actually thought about betting this way before I joined up but I could never get it to work for me on a consistent basis.

What if we played all the systems of NOR virtually net betting them until it was clear which one won the most. Could we continue playing with the most effective system that has the most wining bets using the 1234 prog and get this to work? Or do you think we will just end up chasing our tale and end up one step behind the game switching system?

I would think during the game that net betting would indicate to us which system is the most profitable and we could decide to switch systems to maximize on profits.

[kachatz1]

By E. Clifton Davis

What is net betting?

Net betting is a clever betting process I designed and copyrighted 20 years ago. No one else can or does teach it. It is a process wherein we bet two opposing progs at the same time and only table bet the net difference of the two progs usually on the side with the higher “entryâ€.

What can we net bet?

We can net bet BvP, OvR or OTB4L v TB4L. (OTvT)

We can also net bet double time before last. Instead of going by the hand before last we go by the hand before that. But lets just concentrate on the main three “bases†for now.

How do we net bet?

We subtract the Lo entry from the Hi entry and table bet the difference usually* on the side with the highest entry. When the two entries are equal we have no table bet that hand.

*Flat Bet Net Bet option:

We can flat bet at one unit. Here we simply flat bet at one unit regardless of the difference in the entries. Here also we usually flat bet on the side with the LOWEST entry instead of the highest entry. This is because the Lo side is the side that is currently winning the most hands, ie., the Lo side is the Strong Side of the moment.

Note: Flat Bet Net Bet on the Lo side likes High Disparity. But, we can also simply bet With the disparity in high disparity shoes.

For instance: When Opposites are much stronger than repeats we can simply bet a prog on Opposites.

But the advantage of Flat Bet Net Bet on the Lo side is if the shoe changes, the side you are betting changes with the shoe. We could say that Flat bet Net bet on the Lo side follows the shoe at hand.

Note that with regular net betting we MUST bet the high side. If we bet the low side we would always lose our highest bet.

Caution:

Those of you interested in this flat bet Lo side option need to thoroughly study it first because there are certain tricks to it. Or you may want to wait for us to cover it.

Important: The most important aspect of flat betting is Quit when you are ahead.

When do we select net betting? (We are back to normal Hi Side net betting)

Net betting works best in low Disparity (difference).

When B and P is running about equal we can net bet BvP

When O and R is running near equal we can net bet OvR

When OTB4L, TB4L is running close we can net bet OvT

Important: Whenever the count of whatever we are net betting crosses 0, our Player Advantage is at optimum. This suggests that there are optimum quitting points when net betting.

Betting unopposed:

The most important aspect of net betting is knowing when to suspend betting a prog. Our standard is after two losing bets. However it is decidedly best to adjust this number to the shoe you are playing. SAP charting is the most accurate way to do this. You can also go by which bet you are usually winning.

For instance: If you are suspending after two losing bets but you note that you usually would have won the third bet, you simply change to suspending after 3 losing bets.

Important: When one prog suspends (stops) betting the other prog continues right on betting “unopposedâ€. This is how net betting takes advantage of long runs.

Example:

Suppose we are net betting B vs. P and we get an 8 in a row Bank. Well if we didn’t suspend betting on the P side after two losses the 8 would kill us. BUT by suspending P after two losses we are betting unopposed on the Bank run from the third Bank on.

Resume:

We usually resume betting on the suspended side after it has a paper win. However in some shoes we see that we are usually losing our resume bet. In this case, we simply resume after two paper wins in a row instead of 1. Sporadic 1’s can cause a resume after 2 wins condition.

What kind of progs can we net bet?

We can net bet ANY progs from a simple 1234 negative prog (Back to 1 on all wins) all the way up to a full blown Fibonaci.

U1D2 M2, U1D1 M2, U1D1 M3 B2 Whatever.

Usually when we use a 1234 neg prog we keep it 2Hi by changing a 1 vs 4 to a 2 vs 4.

The important thing here is to match your betting aggression to the quality of the table.

Why we net bet:

Let’s say that Smitty and I ended up next to each other at a Bac table. Smitty decides to bet a 1234 negative (up as you lose) progression on Bank. I happen to be playing a 1234 on Player. Let’s say the disparity is dead neutral and we both end up winning 25 units. We go to lunch together and compare notes.

I remark that we both did very well but it’s too bad that we always end up betting against each other. So I say, I wonder what would happen if we didn’t. Let’s say you have a 3 bet on Bank and I have a 1 bet on Player. Instead of betting against each other, I won’t bet at all and you just bet the difference or 2 on Bank. So we get our cards out and try that. Low and behold, we find that we both still win 25 units. But, we bet a whole lot less to win that 25 units so our player advantage (ROI, Return On Investment, units bet divided by units won) is a whole lot higher (double digit) AND our commission is cut almost in half!

Here’s all we did: We subtracted the low bet from the high bet and whoever had the high bet, bet only the difference between the two bets while the guy with the low bet didn’t bet at all. Yep, as strange as it may seem, we both end up making exactly the same as before but now we do it betting a lot less money (less risk) while paying a lot less commission (higher reward). Therefore our player advantage goes from about 13% to about 23%. Anything that increases your player advantage is a giant step in the right direction. Player advantage is a perfect measurement of performance. Yes, that 23% player advantage directly compares to the 0.5% player advantage that BJ card counters strive to obtain, but never do. Yep, even Kenny Houston. Maybe that gives you some idea why I keep saying that BJ card counting is a bunch of hogwash. It’s good for three groups, casinos, card counting book sellers, and movie makers.

So we go back and play 4 more shoes this new exciting way. But this time we play black instead of green because we can afford to because we are betting far less units than before. Lets say the table remains the same (just a little far fetched) and we each now average 25 black unit’s a shoe and go to supper.

I say Smitty, this is real good but it is ridiculous. Every hand, only one of us is betting. Once we figure out what the bet is, why don’t we BOTH bet it. We get our cards out and try that. Low and behold, we now EACH average 50 black unit’s a shoe. See, isn’t mathematics magical? So why do we net bet? To greatly improve our performance, win a whole lot more while betting a whole lot less and reducing our risk and our commission. Yep, that example is precisely true and accurate as strange as it may seem. And, one player can do it all. You don't need a partner.

But Remember, only net bet when the conditions are right - LOW DISPARITY!

Have been NET BETTING a lot lately and think this whole subject warrants a seminar!

Can win quite a few units with a U1D1 M1 progression used on both sides of B/P, O/R, etc.

This is GOLD....like a lot of good ideas, just needs to be reminded to all the newbies and grizzled vets alike...

Paper tracking is s.i.m.p.l.e....

Just IMHO.

[Guest]

Have been NET BETTING a lot lately and think this whole subject warrants a seminar!

Can win quite a few units with a U1D1 M1 progression used on both sides of B/P, O/R, etc.

This is GOLD....like a lot of good ideas, just needs to be reminded to all the newbies and grizzled vets alike...

Paper tracking is s.i.m.p.l.e....

Just IMHO.

Well right kachatz1 a siminar or at least a Webinar devoted to the ins and outs of net betting is a good idea - at some point.

But right now, 95% of the active forum is focused on MDB+. It seems we have found a way to always win in Vegas touch games and since we have a high stakes Vegas play session coming up quickly we need to STAY focused. It would be the biggest event in the history of Baccarat if we could get through this play session W/O a losing shoe from any of the teams. And right now, that looks like an achievable goal.

[muling427]

Hello,

I am very interested in net betting.

If I use a 1234 progression , what should I do if I lose the 4 bet. ?

And you said either , at any stage in the progression to restart at 1 ,Am I right ?

In case of flat net betting, you said to bet the lowest entry but what should I do if there is only one entry . I mean if I have stopped betting on a side after 2 losses

Thank you

Bernard