Bet Phoenix "Cutting it short"

[nizm0racer]

Just got off the phone with Uneek and he noticed today that the shoes were ending at 40 something plays again. I will be calling BPH again to bring this issue to the attention of the management. MVS, Mark, TomM and whomever else is playing there if you guys can please bring this matter to their attention as well. As what their doing is not right and fair for the players paying to play. Maybe if we get more players that play there call and they notice more players noticing it they'll change it. Thanks guys.

RJ

[uneek]

I was playing one shoe and it ended at play 47 WTF!!! okay so I go to the 10 dollar table and it ended early almost as the same as the other table I was on. Starting to Piss me off. If anyone else plays on Bet Phoenix and encounters this please give Bet Phoenix a call. Just like Nizmo said "If we get more players to call about this They will start noticing and hopefully they will change"

Thanks

Tom w/o the m - uneek

[MVSeahog]

I put in a call tonight but got the casino dept answering machines. I did get a live person when I called but she transferred me over and nobody picked up. I'll call again during the daytime tomorrow.

This short stacking of the shoe isn't very consistant either. Both of my shoes today were full ones.

MVS

[nizm0racer]

Called today and spoke with "Roslyn". If there's anyone else playing there please give the casino manager a call and let them know the situation. I don't want them thinking I'm just BS'ing about me knowing other people there that have seen this problem too. She also said that since they're their own casino they can abide by whatever rules THEY feel are right for them. Kind of fishy to me that they won't follow vegas style heck even european style baccarat that pretty much ALL casinos follow.

[MVSeahog]

Nizm0racer,

Hmm, something else odd happened just a bit ago on BetPhoenix.

The shoe started out NICELY, at least for me. After a very short period of time, they shut the table down! At 6:20pm.

Here's what had come out so far. I was +19 when it closed!!

Bet Phoenix May 31, 2010 Table 2

B14754

at which point the table closed. Arrrrrgh. A big streaky start like that and I was licking my chops to make a bundle there for sure.

Oh well, at least it's a win for today. (Thank you Maverick!)

MVS

Edited May 31, 2010 by MVSeahog

[MVSeahog]

All,

Also, for BetPhoenix and their live games, they've been very good about responding to email inquiries at the following email address.

livegames@betphoenix.com

Twice I've sent questions into them at that address and both times they've responded, with the correct information, within 48 hours.

I just sent in today requesting information on the current spate of short shoes in the live table games.

MVS

[nizm0racer]

Thanks for the updates MVS, Glad you're helping out, I appreciate it very much. I'm actually waiting for a call back still from Roslyn as I want to resolve this matter before I keep playing with my current money in there now.

Edited June 1, 2010 by nizm0racer

[nizm0racer]

So I got a call back from my account manager "Andrew" earlier today. He told me he spoke with the casino manager and said there was a mix up when management was switched around so that's why rules were being tossed around like that. Not very professional in my opinion. Well they told me they resolved the problem and that they will be cutting 16 cards from the back here on out. Whomever is play on BPH can you please verify this for me? That they are cutting the correct amount on the back? I did a check today on table 4 and noticed they did not do it again. I just want to make sure I'm not going crazy and am not seeing things. Thanks all.

[MVSeahog]

Just finished up for today and the shoe went 74 hands.

MVS

[TomM]

Just finished up for today and the shoe went 74 hands.

MVS

Haven't played there much in the last 10 days or so so only saw a couple of the short shoes. I played 3 shoes last night/early morning on table 4 and they all went the distance. The shoes were not that good though. Either I just got a load of crappy shoes or they have managed to break up a lot of the streak with the intermitant wash. Saw a lot of 3's games.

[TomM]

Just finished up 3 shoes at Bph and it was OK but short on long repeats. Had a 10R in the final shoe tonight but it was out of character with the rest of the shoe and the other two were more mixed. Possibly the time they were dealing the short shoes they had there "pit" re-figuring the shuffle.

I needed something so crossed the pond and ended up at Dublinbet for the 1st time in three weeks or so and played one shoe off the short board for a 20 something unit win. It has been going on for like 3 years now and there shoes are still good for me. Lot of the same faces and a nice smooth interface that makes online play a pleasure. Being able to only look back 10 plays from there board is OK for me. Still haven't been over to BOC in over 3 months. I keep forgetting and not sure if I remember my password. Nice bunch of folks over there as I remember. I hope they don't have the turnover that Bph seems to have unless they are bumping many up the coporate ladder quickly.

Edited June 5, 2010 by TomM

[nizm0racer]

TomM,

I've just noticed them not exactly "count" the back end of the shoe but rather just cut less cards than normal. Maybe around less than half a deck or so. The shoes have been turning up around 60+ hands which isn't a big problem since most of us have good MM around hand 60 anyways. Let's hope this still continues and we won't run into more shuffle problems again. Oh BTW the other night I noticed the dealer showed an extra card on one hand. I didn't care that I'd lose a hand (just testing at the time) BUT it infuriated me when I saw that instead of showing the hand they used that card as another BURN card and burned that exact amount of hands (It was a face card) so it totally jacked up the shoe again! Has anyone ever seen this? Basically showing an extra card but not dealing out the hand and then using that card as a burn card? (like in the beginning)

[TomM]

TomM,

I've just noticed them not exactly "count" the back end of the shoe but rather just cut less cards than normal. Maybe around less than half a deck or so. The shoes have been turning up around 60+ hands which isn't a big problem since most of us have good MM around hand 60 anyways. Let's hope this still continues and we won't run into more shuffle problems again. Oh BTW the other night I noticed the dealer showed an extra card on one hand. I didn't care that I'd lose a hand (just testing at the time) BUT it infuriated me when I saw that instead of showing the hand they used that card as another BURN card and burned that exact amount of hands (It was a face card) so it totally jacked up the shoe again! Has anyone ever seen this? Basically showing an extra card but not dealing out the hand and then using that card as a burn card? (like in the beginning)

I've never seen that bad hand burn at Bph but plenty in the brick and mortor joints. I think it is just a little more game control. When I played in the B&M joints regularly 10 -15 years ago when they mucked up a hand somehow they just considered it a dead hand and didn't do that mid-shoe burn. It really pisses off a lot of players when they do the burn because most players feel it screws up the flow and they have to re-figure their play.

I've been in shoes were it has happened more than once in a shoe (usually because the dealer is new or asleep) and the whole table picked up and split. Once I was left heads-up when the table moved on so needing a break anyway I eventually asked them to burn that shoe and I would start the next shoe. They did it that time. But if that is going on a lot at a table I usually just bail.

I don't think they have a specific number of cards they cut off the new shuffle at Bph. I just see them stick the joker in close to the end.

I haven't played many shoes there recently but the ones I have played were broken down to way more 2's and particularly 3's and more and slighly longer ZZ runs. This is an indication to me that they were successful to some degree in busting up the straight runs.

Edited June 5, 2010 by TomM

[TomM]

I played 3 shoes at Bph last night and two of the three were just fine for me using Maverick/PC. They seem to be using a bunch of little shuffle variations but the most visual is the stacking of the shoe with the picks after whatever house shuffle they use. The final shoe that Byron shuffled he was about to stick the cards in the shoe and he must of got some off camera instructions and did a sort of WTF look to the side and broke down that shuffle for another goofy maneuver before he put the larger "picks" back in the shoe. All this shuffle stuff is very entertaining but that final shoe of the night was really goofed up. IT changed from OTB4L favorable to TB4L and RD-H to Anti real quickly that makes it difficult to hit winners on with any consistency. These shoes are easy to spot in the first column. Playing the conservative progression I tend to bog down in these. I need a little more torque in these or sit out after 2 loss’s and hope to hit the resume bet. I was thinking of going with a controlled version of System One that I have been working on but have not seen many shoes that Maverick doesn‘t win so haven‘t had the opportunity to try it yet in live play. It needs a little more polish and practice anyway.

The other thing they did last night that I have never seen before is after the dealer sticks the cards in the shoe they waited for a “pit person“ to come over and stick the Joker in near the end of the shoe. I guess they are trying their best to reconcile with the # of players they pissed off with the “short shoes“. .All in all Bph has to take the cake for the weirdest shoes I have ever seen in a single session. Mostly weird good, but occasionally weird confusing. Anyway it appears they are back to dealing full shoes and still experimenting with shuffle procedures that they have to teach the dealers to abide by. It least I have a little more time to build the perfect PB&J sandwich during intermission.

[nizm0racer]

TomM, It's really hard to find a consistency with BPH when they cut the shoe then put the back end in the front, the middle in the back then the back in the middle (if you know what I mean). Sometimes zigzags of 4 will always go more than 4 then the next shoe it cuts off at 4 no matter what. Still trying to decide what to play on that site and how to attack them.

[TomM]

TomM, It's really hard to find a consistency with BPH when they cut the shoe then put the back end in the front, the middle in the back then the back in the middle (if you know what I mean). Sometimes zigzags of 4 will always go more than 4 then the next shoe it cuts off at 4 no matter what. Still trying to decide what to play on that site and how to attack them.

I know what you mean. The 1's legend I keep alerts me to potentially stuggling shoes real quick. If my score isn't in negative numbers by the time I recognize it I can get sucked into a "House shoe". I'm still experimenting with a version of System One as a more conservative way of winning these shoe types with a conservative progression aimed at recovery while still tracking the shoe with Maverick so return on queue or continue with System One if things don't shape up for the remainder of the shoe. I still have more figuring to do with that and will post it somewheres around here if it ends up to have any teeth at all. The obvious thing is to bail and take a small loss and wait for the next shoe or see what the other tables are doing. I tend to like to battle on as it is good training. The "bad" shoe got me for -5 units last night but I quit playing because I was tired and just recorded the rest of the shoe. i beleive the shoe stayed crappy the whole way. I remember watching and waiting for a Ultimate bet scenario to line up and hit it, playing in my head. The next two bets I tried that on were not "Ultimate Bet" candidates but just looked to be advantage bets and won one and lost the other. So had I kept betting and made the 5 unit "ultimate bet" I would have recoverd all but a little commission. I tend not to bet into these situations much perfering to take the small loss so I don't have to dig out from a bigger hole in the next shoe if I muck things up. The warning signs are all over the wall on that one. Perhaps I'll post it over on the M&M thread as an example of a difficult Maverick shoe. The only thing is I am rarely playing a strong progression at the start of a shoe so my drawdowns and loss's on these shoes tends to be insignificant. Also sometimes a more agressive progression or attitude will recover the lose and go on to win these shoes but I am looking for another avenue in system One to provide some relief here perhaps.

Edited June 9, 2010 by TomM

[MVSeahog]

Well, how's this for cutting it short! Went in for tonight's PM session and this is what I find.

Very weird.

MVS

[TomM]

Well, how's this for cutting it short! Went in for tonight's PM session and this is what I find.

Very weird.

MVS

[ATTACH]1652[/ATTACH]

Probably some server problem or something. I'm sure the chiefs will have the recruits boning up on shuffle procedures in the meantime.

Update: Concerning my prior post #16 that mentions the losing shoe I just have to say I just replayed the first 40 hands and even with my conservative progression I am at +9.5 units at hand 40. To make matters even worse I can see System One would have kicked butt without much fuss regardless of what progression used. This just goes to show that I can really foul up a perfectly fine shoe. I remember and old movie that I had never heard of came on at the start of this shoe and it turned out to be a hoot. Unfortunately I must of been more involved in the movie than usual. On the other hand I pulled the plug at -5. Just goes to show how handy it is too run with a stop-loss in mind for emergencies. I really don't have a firm stop-loss for playing Maverick with the conservative progression but I think for me -10 under normal circumstance or -5 when a good shows on the tube. With the conservative progression my worst shoe holds at -6.5. When I hit -4, I push the panic button and that usually gets my attention and I start the crawl back to zero and hopefully a winner. One other thing to keep in mind at Bph lately is their shoes are running longer then usual so if you are anything like me you my be a little more fatigued if you are playing more than a couple shoes per session.

Edited June 9, 2010 by TomM

[TomM]

Bph still flying the red flag this morning. BOC was down last night when I checked, but is up now. When they first opened they didn't offer those various betting platforms. I can't remember what the upper limit was but I believe it was more than $ 300.00. Now it appears that the upper limit goes with the $15.00 minimim bet. When I see $15.00 tables in a casino my inner silly self just wants to start heckling from the aisle, even though I have manged to keep that impulse under control. Would be fun to get a few licks in at BOC but two minutes after I signed on the dealer video froze. I didn't feel like hanging around even though the short board looked good for TBL.

[MVSeahog]

Still flying all four red flags as of this message.

Bummer. The wife and her buddy are down at the Seminole casino cashing in a bunch of free plays and I was hoping to get a few shoes in "unmolested" by the chores that really need to be done around here!

Oh well, maybe tonight.

Here's the edit.... Still down at midnight!!

MVS

Edited June 10, 2010 by MVSeahog
Updated status as of midnight

[MVSeahog]

Still flying all four red flags as of this message.

Hmm, something really odd must be going on down there in Costa Rica. Still no tables available as of this posting.

I may actually have to drive to the smoky casino this week!!!

We'll see how it goes on Friday and then I've really got to get in gear and get this week's allotment of wins!!

I may have to run over to Black Orchid and get some daily practice in.

MVS

[TomM]

Hey Guys

Was just on live chat over at Bph. I was told they will be down till this Saturday June 12, 2010 for maintenance. I asked about another site that I stumbled upon run by the Phoenix people. It's URL is Betphoenixcasino.com. The lobby reminds me of BOC's. It should have the live games when it is up and running. I tried to enter with my Betphoenix acct info but keep telling me that was wrong. I asked the live chat person at the Betphoenix sportsbook website about not being able to access that website with my acct. info that lets me into Bph or Bogarts and was told I should contact them. I have to assume all the "BPH" live dealer games are closed for now.

I get a tighness in my chest every time I think about going to the local joint. That can't be good. Besides it will be Friday in a couple hours. Figure there will be one quarter table that's under a cloud of smoke and the rest will be $50.00's ready turn into $100.,00. pumpkins at midnight. Naw, Smokadelphia ! I'll wait.

[MVSeahog]

Tom,

That other BetPhoenixCasino site is different for sure. I accidentally signed up there several months ago with a play account thinking it was THE BetPhoenix. Haven't really been back to it since I figured out it was the wrong one.

MVS

Edited June 11, 2010 by MVSeahog

[TomM]

Table 1 is open now. Almost perfect (2-1) top heavy player. I just dropped in and saw this one open so I don't know if these are new cards or not.

Update: About a 30 some minute shoe ended at hand #44. They were busy with the tag team wash a minute ago. Maybe someone won a couple colons...not me, I'm watching The undersea world with my wet freind Jacque Cousteau. It has been re-runs of the old Cousteau shows on TCM all day. Too cool.

Update part deau: Well I OD'd on the Cousteau reruns but watched enough of the shoes to see they were good tonight. This last shoe the other girl "pit person" or whatever came over and took the joker from the dealer and put in in the shoe but they didn't turn the shoe sideways so I couldn't see to well how far from the end it went. Aside from the first shoe it appears as if they are dealing basically full shoes. That's it.

Edited June 12, 2010 by TomM

[nizm0racer]

Still see only table 1 open. Hopefully they get #4 open so I can use my real money account there.