Guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Ellis-Not sure if i will answer corectly, but these cards came right out of the shuflemaster.If you suspect they came fro a "random generator", then perhaps you need to tell us ALL how to identify this? I know all about table selection, etering the shoe at the optimal ( i.e." for our chosen strategy") point,etc.But the cards dealt in this shoe were started at around 9 pm, likely been played all day...I play all the time this casino, and they DO NOT keep putting new cards in play , unless it is a new table, as I described table 3 coming on line a few hands ago ( liley to open around 10pm)...FYI, I verified with the dealer this table was open all day...THIS IS A REAL SHOE,PLAYED REAL TIME last wednesday night in Milwaukee WI.. www.paysbig.com This is the first time I have seen you ask this question ( seems you had asked previously) ?? So not sure how to answer...maybe a good lesson for all, HOW-DOES-ONE-DETECT-THIS for absolute certainty?OK, so it is a live on line casino and you can see the cards coming out of the shuffle master, right? Then it is NOT a random generator on line casino.But I am out just as I would be out in a real casino at this point. It is rare to be this far in a shoe W/O one of the 3 NOR systems revealing itself. We have a near 0 OR count so no help there. We have a near even SAP count so little help there. We have equal strength on both sides so no help there. In a casino I would never sit down at this table. It has no bias, let alone the strongest bias in the casino. But having already made that mistake, just as I teach, I would leave this table. I would not wait for - 8. I'd go find a biased game.No bias games are rare in real casinos but they do happen. Our strategy is to leave such tables. We don't play w/O an edge because we are smarter than the other players. Let the -26% guys finish this game. We move on to a beatable game. This one is a waste of time and money. Everyone here needs to learn to ONLY play games you can beat.But this is a valuable exercise because it is a good example of the kind of games we would avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 sap count,4,0,4,4,all we need are 2,2's to make 4's across,can't happen,lol.will wait to see if it is a single bSure enough,it was a single Banker as Player wins.We now are as followsP241111311Not sure that presenting it this way helps or not, but with few real trends I decided to wait out a few hands to see what comes next. I am up a whopping two units ( less commission) at this point, but table #2 across from me was completely full ( as is this one) and table #3 has still not opened up yet as they work on the initial shuffle.Since we all seem a bit stumped I will lay out the next five hands for you, exactly as they occurred.P9 B5B9 P1P7 B3P6 B1B7 P0. Sooooooo, that brings us all to the end of the first 20 Hands ( excluding one Tie)Here is where the dhow stoodPP BBBB P B P B PPP B PP B PP BTired of sitting out as the play was fairly slow, so I jumped back in at this point and bet one unit on the Player, because it seemed all the bank could muster was a bunch of 1-in-a-rows after that initial run of 4B's early in the shoe and OT4BL was starting to take shape.Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneybac Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 1's above normal,they got the 2,2's in,making 4,sap is 6,4,4,4, is this a catch up shoe,or could you bet f2,it's a setup?,go p,anyway's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 1's above normal,they got the 2,2's in,making 4,sap is 6,4,4,4, is this a catch up shoe,or could you bet f2,it's a setup?,go p,anyway'sAgree with Ellis on his assessment of the shoe, unfortunately Milwaukee has ONE casino, and usually only two tables open.It was aPlayer result, so I will go there again for one unit on Player.now at P241111312121 first 20 hands and P1 start of the next 20....Stay tuned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneybac Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 i will go p again,lets not give up yet,rome wasn't built in a day lol,maybe f2,1's at 7,so p,or is this s40, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users Danicito Posted October 27, 2011 Users Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I see that you guys always mention f2 is this a method or a bac term? I am just asking because I want to follow in a right way your comments.Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I see that you guys always mention f2 is this a method or a bac term? I am just asking because I want to follow in a right way your comments.ThanksDancito-So much has been written on this topic!If you are now a private member, I suggest you review the many, many posts so you can formulate the best possible decision theory for Dancito.As an aside, i will ask Ellis to answer as well, as he can be very succint...BUT PLEASE, PLEASE DO READ SOME OF THE OLD POSTS!! ( very valuable stuff F2, F3, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users Danicito Posted October 27, 2011 Users Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Thanks kachatz1 unfortunately I am not a private member... just a public member all I found out about F2 or F3 is that those are applied on Repeater shoes and that's what I find wierd because the current shoe looks like a choppy shoe.well... I am going to continue following the thread because I am sure that I am going to learn a lot. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Thanks kachatz1 unfortunately I am not a private member... just a public member all I found out about F2 or F3 is that those are applied on Repeater shoes and that's what I find wierd because the current shoe looks like a choppy shoe.well... I am going to continue following the thread because I am sure that I am going to learn a lot. thanks DancitoFor a mere $50.00 a month you will see way , way back for seeral years.. I am not sure of your minimum bet in your country, but most BAC games in the states now $15-$25.00 minimum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Two or three shoes in 10 minutes, and you are up to speeD AND HAVE ACCESS TO THE EXPLOITS OF MANY, Many Players HAVE PLAYED FOR MANY, MANY YEARS,,Best bargain , most assurable winninghs on the entire internet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users Danicito Posted October 27, 2011 Users Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I am confused... I see that NOR private forum costs $600.what you mean with $50 a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) I am confused... I see that NOR private forum costs $600.what you mean with $50 a month.No Dan, there is no longer any monthly charge and F is one of NOR's 3 systems. Edited October 27, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Hey Danicito, FYI, here's another NOR trip report one of the members just posted: zebra View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles Add as Contact Senior Member Join Date:May 2008Location:Seneca SCPosts:103Rep Power:50 NOR Trip report 10/26 Hi Guys. I just returned from Florida. In between working on my tanI made a few trips to Coconut Creek Casino. I played parts of 9 shoesover a couple of days. My results were as follows: 8 wins, 1 loss.In the 8 winners I averaged less than 21 bets per shoe, winning an average of 12.5, losing 8.1. So even if I was flat betting I would havebeen +35 units. I wound up +61, an average of about 7.6. I used NOR + SAP (NORSAP?) and handled both streaky and choppy shoes. The only losing shoe (-8) wound up with a SAP count of 20-20-20-12, so obviously there was no deviation to take advantage of. I was playing quarters and 123 prog, only going to 234 a couple of times, usually in turboscenarios. All in all, a very successful trip. I was +$1100 after commissionand spent no more than 4 hours total in the casino. Once again, thank youEllis for making me a player.Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Dancito-So much has been written on this topic!If you are now a private member, I suggest you review the many, many posts so you can formulate the best possible decision theory for Dancito.As an aside, i will ask Ellis to answer as well, as he can be very succint...BUT PLEASE, PLEASE DO READ SOME OF THE OLD POSTS!! ( very valuable stuff F2, F3, etc.)If you are still reluctant to join, so be it, but where i live the shoes generallly run $25 min per hand, and with MM, et.c i am beting over $6,000 per shoe ( $ $600 is 10 percent of a single shoe...win just a few hands more per shoe, and in no time you are in the plus column, my friend...)And lest anyone want to know, I do this for fun, not profit for Ellis ( he and Keith are nice people, but I have plenty to do with the rest of my time...)Still, even at the annual fee, ( same as i joined at, not monthly), you should stongly consider PRIVATE vs. PUBLIC memebership.I will not ask you to believe me, but perhaps you can solicit some other PRIVATE FORUM member opinions...For me, i have won 50-fold what my membership cost ( YES, net-net over $30,000)By the same token, I have played literally/actually/for real several thousand shoes, and after so much play I have a few ideas about "shoes-I-have-seen-before", so while I am playig new shoes I do have some "feelings" about what-to-do other than just SAP, NOR, System 40, Maverick ( read the posts), F2, F3, yada yadaDo not let anyone tell you that one type of "system handles every kind-of-shoe"...it does not, so you have to have a feeling for the game...I can tell by you posts YOU ARE NOT A NOVICE, and even your questions are more about should i invest in this after ( perhaps??) some other failed "bacarat investment systems"I could be way off base, but i will tell you this.-1) You have seen me play a shoe likely one of the worst type, yet not afraid to make decisions acccordingly ( or sit out, as needed)2) You cannot/will not win every shoe3) There are those who say grab a few units and GET OUT of the shoe, and those who will say set a realistic stop-win ( get - out) and stop-loss ( get out) objective.4) The posts you can access over the last few years are invaluable to helping you "get-it" ( but I think you are alrready way more advanced than this, ( I like to think have a pretty good sense of people and their abilities...)and likely the "holy grail" has eluded you...P.S. THERE IS NO HOLY GRAIL, and no amount you pay for a system or anyone's advice will get you there every shoe!!5) Just google the free forum BACCARATFORUMS, and if after a few days you are not nauseated by the rheotic, the BS, or the whatever...play on, and come on bac (k) pun intended6) Sign up for the live forum December in Vegas! C 4 yourself!I cannot help you with the price, but I CAN help you with the outcome of your investment. Up 2 U.And as always, good luck to all!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waminc Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 To catch up with what has been happening, my last bets have been...1 on P(W), 1 on P(W), 1 on P(L), 2 on P(W). I,m now even and playing this shoe as F2...with some trepidation since there has not been any long runs to speak of. I will bail at the first sign of trouble.Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted October 28, 2011 Author Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Agree with Ellis on his assessment of the shoe, unfortunately Milwaukee has ONE casino, and usually only two tables open.It was a Player result, so I will go there again for one unit on Player.now at P241111312121 first 20 hands and P1 start of the next 20....Stay tunedGo figure it was a Banker, so down to two units for this shoe and I will go all in ( a whole 2 units this shoe! , but with a lot of 1's on the Banker I am in for it all -- 2 UNITS) on the Player!WIN I am up 4 units, lose I am back to square 1...So second column we are at P11( table # 3 is just getting ready to open but I will wait and see if any discernible trend/ bias just as Ellis suggested!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 WOW! Katchaz writes a hell of a sales letter! Danicito, et al, All I can add to that is that everyone here is free to say whatever they want. But I don't know of any other forum that actually has long term winning players. This is a game of skill. There is no such thing as luck, good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Here's another question prospective members should ask:Question: Will NOR work every shoe?Answer: NO! Only about 90%. The other 10% is why we have a -8 stop loss.BTW, I used to hold the record here at 40 winning shoes in a row. But I don't hold that record anymore. A student beat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneybac Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) 2, on player,i get 12p,10 b,is that right Edited October 28, 2011 by moneybac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waminc Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Down 1 after the last B...I go 2 units on P. Lose this bet and I will "sit on my hands" and decide whether to continue or drop out of the shoe. I have been experiencing many tough shoes recently at the Grand in Biloxi, averaging about +2 units per shoe. Re-worked 4 of them with ADN and score over 10 units/shoe. I just scored this shoe with ADN and would be at +7 right now....Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted October 28, 2011 Author Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 2, on player,i get 12p,10 b,is that rightSure enough, hand # 23 was a Player (P7 B6), which leaves us at :PPBBBBPBPBPPPBPPBPPBPBPThat suggests to me 1 unit on the Player, as there seems to be a strong enough pattern of PP to warrant a second P.But in the back of my mind, i am thinking the string of single bankers is getting a bit long in the tooth...( though i have seen "runs" of more than 10 singles on P and B before a switch to 2-or-more consecutive, enough times to know that nobody knows!) For now, let's see how this plays out...another way to look at it would be to say "look at all those 1's, in the shoe...clearly the most dominant...though last "1"on P is still unconfirmed...hmmmmmmm (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneybac Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 1, on player, is that lucky 13 p,lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeystyle Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 2 units on Banker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted October 28, 2011 Author Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Well, out comes the Player again. P9 B8Now P112 in the 2nd "column" of 20 hands, so at hand 25 and given the stong 2's indicator on the player, i am going back on the Banker for 1 unit.So far total shoe: PP BBBB P B P B PPP B PP B PP B P B PPI am up 5 units, and starting to think maybe this could work out after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneybac Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 1,on player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users Danicito Posted October 28, 2011 Users Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 thank everyone for their well-intentioned commentsback to the shoe... O/R count = +5 then it has become a choppy shoe I will play S40, so I will bet 1 unit on B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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