John12345

That is true. Most baccarat players do not take me serious when I walk up to the table, I often wonder if it is because I am not Asian. I also get a lot of weird looks when I hold my score card vertical. And I'm sure that it doesn't help that I am very young looking. I actually had a guy tell me that I should get my feet wet and give betting a try! After I won, I found myself telling him to go to BTC when he was asking me how to play haha

Just got back from AC after playing NOR. I was planning on playing SAP but I didn't really have the patience to sit down and play SAP the way that I play it. So I set out to the table to play NOR. I was actually probably playing an older version of it. I saw it a few times on paper, but the concept is so easy to get a hang of after reading it a few times, that it becomes rather hard to forget. My biggest issue is the switching, I sometimes switch too many times. But I found a way to deal with that personal problem. anyway, this was my first time playing at the Taj. I think I will be playing bac at the Taj from now on. I planned to play the entire night, but I got down late. My fiancee went out with a few friends, so that gave me about two hours to play some baccarat. I decided to test NOR out on a $15.00 table. I bought in for about $120. Upon sitting down, I got the typical "what the hell is this young white kid doing here" look from all of the "experienced players". I waited about eight decisions before I saw a perfect Sys40 opportinuty. Usually I wait 15-20 decisions before making a bet, but I wasn't sure how long I would have before I had to stop playing, so I felt rushed (never play if you feel rushed, I watched a guy lose 10K doing that). The shoe ended up being a perfect System40 shoe all of the way through, with a few occasional burps, leaving me betting no higher than 3 units, two times. At the end of the shoe, I cashed out +23 units. Not bad, for the way that I was betting. I started playing at 1 unit flat to get a feel for the shoe. Then I moved to a 1,2,3 as the shoe got stronger. I also pressed on some of my stronger plays. And at other times, I all together stopped betting. So it was a great showing for NOR over in the Taj. I cashed out richer than most of the people at my table who couldn't seem identify an easy shoe.

I have been wanting to join the private forum again, but I never have the time to play baccarat anymore, so I'm holding out until I am free. I found some time to to book a trip to AC this Saturday. I will be playing SAP, or at least what I remember from SAP. In the past, SAP preformed the best for me here. So I'll head down with my BTC SAP tools and combine it with a couple of ideas of my own. One quick question to SAP players here. What progression seems to work the best with SAP? I was thinking about an Up .5 Down 1, but I am not sure about that. I might start out flat betting, then progress to a 1,2,3 if the shoe is good and figure out where to go from there.

Ellis, Here is a question for you. I am under the impression that there are different types of shuffles. If this is true then do certain types of shuffles produce streaky or chop shoes? And if the ]shuffle does produce a set of conditions either streaky or choppy, the wouldn't it be to our benefit to watch the shuffle or wash process prior to sitting at the table to determine which system to start with? I'm not referring to the shuffle machines, only hand washed cards like on bet phoenix or at some of the big back tables that still use a new set of factory cards after each squeeze game. Thanks

yes, very nice, but very poor playing conditions. I personally have never seen so many Bac tables. During Christmas time I was over at Harrahs AC, they only had 1 single table open and I was playing alone most of the time. But sands beth has well over 10 running at a time, and it is very hard to find a seat. Same problem at Harrahs Chester, another one that I frequently play at. I have met some nice players in Sands but overall they are rude. I'm pretty sure that I am one of the few Caucasians ( and youngest ) that plays the game in Sands, so I guess they have no reason to be nice to me. I am actually taking a break from the game because I cannot deal with the people that are playing it at sands. Even when I win, I still come home pissed off and disgusted from all the terrible things i see. Good thing you guys are here to show people the light. You got that right. I have seen some very bad decisions made in this casino. You could make a ton of money standing outside of the casino selling your system. They come in by the bus load at all times of the day and are so clueless. I can't help but wonder where they come from and why they keep returning. They never seem to win, they all must be part of some big team or something. There is always one guy who stands back and watches, It is kind of suspicious. I also have noticed a new fashion trend. Many of the sands baccarat players have a very long finger nail, usually on their smallest finger. I don't know if this is a weird fashion statement, or if it has something to do with drugs. But I stay the hell away from those people. You can find a lot of shady people walking around sands at all times of the day. especially in the baccarat and roulette sections. that actually keeps me awake. If you think that Sands is loud then you should walk into Harrahs Chester. Actually harrahs Chester is worse because it is always freezing.

When will the NOR manual be ready?

I play at Sands Beth all the time since it is so close to my university, only about 7 minutes. Nice casino but I am not a fan of baccarat there. Too many rude people and always way too crowded. If you go at 7am, there are a ton of people there and if you go at 12am there are still a ton of people there. I hate starting shoes from the first decision, but you really have no choice at that casino. It isn't so bad though, they let me text on my phone which is nice. I get yelled at for doing that at AC. I have played played system40 there and done alright, the conditions can be a bit odd at times.

Thanks for the information and reply

Ellis, I have a question for you. The question deals with Inner-deck consistencies and using the 3 modes of system40 to exploit the bias between each deck. ( if a bias even exists??? ) Have you every looked at breaking a shoe down deck by deck? If so, Do you think it will make any difference? I am probably making no sense, so I will explain what I mean. Let's say we are playing an 8 deck game. We know that there will be 8 decks in total used. Next, we subtract the burned cards from the total amount of cards in the deck to give us the true number of cards in the entire shoe. So rather than 8 decks, there may only be 7.5 decks that we will need to consider. After that, we figure out how many cards each deck will contain, and this will be an ongoing calculation based on the total number of cards dealt per hand. We should therefore be able to determine when deck 1, deck 2, deck 3, deck 4...all end. So here is my question. Can NOR, or System40A be used to find inner-deck consistencies? My question is based on he assumption that each individual deck will present a bias towards either chops, streaks, or neutral. So I would probably use the OR count to determine the first half of each deck. After determining the mode to play, I would then play that mode for the remaining portion of the deck, then stop and retrack for the first half of the next deck. Think there could be any merit to this?

It always has been one of my favorites here and one of the systems that I avoided the most for some reason. I still can't figure out why.

Thanks for the information. I think that I have an idea about what NOR might be. I have actually found myself questioning why I am even using the SAP count because the OR count (following many of the principles that you outlined in the System40 A threads) is sufficient enough. I am going to join again at some point in the near future. For now I will continue with some small trends and look to strike when the OR count presents the exploits. Oh and lately I have been encountering a lot of those neutral shoes that you have been talking about at Harrah's Chester and Bethlehem Sands. In fact, when I was playing on Friday everybody got up and left the table towards the end because the shoe was not choppy or streaky. They had no idea how to handle the shoe. I used my BTC knowledge to recognize that the shoe was neutral, I stayed and Killed the shoe. I think that the lessons that you teach about the neural shoes are extremely important.

anybody here still use NU SAP? that was probably my favorite and most successful system here. I got too caught up in Maverick and stopped playing SAP. I have been having success lately by combining NU SAP, Trending, and an OR count together. I basically start the shoe slow and bet when I see a good opportunity. I track SAP and the OR count together and I look for exploits or sweat spots for the various programs, then I stop trending and I begin playing a system based on either the OR count or the SAP count. I also am using a variable progression that I could never begin to describe it since it is all based on my performance and feelings about what is going to happen. So I am still using NU SAP to a degree, anyone else?

This is so true! he is using the good old expensive = good, marketing tactic. I am not saying his system is bad, I have never seen the new one, and I don't plan to for that price. But let's face it, people have lost with it, and it is not foolproof. So what makes his system better than the systems here? So many people are fooled by the stereotype that Ellis is talking about. Mark is using the tactic to its finest. It makes perfect sense. Just think about it, our world is so complex and stimulated, we have to process information so fast, and most of the time at we process information in an automatic fashion. This means that we need to use stereotypes to help make decisions to lessen the burden of the stimuli on our central nervous system. So the expensive = good stereotype is used to make qualitative decisions in a short amount of time. In reality, what are you really getting when you buy his system? Some great help, probably a great method, maybe even a future of winning, but you get that here too, for a lot less. Actually you get more here, for a lot less. Right now I am more interested in Mark's marketing methods more than his system. He is not really coming onto forums and advertising, he does not need to. he has his forum and site, and he is wording things exactly like he has to to pull the buyer in. Even the entire thing where he helps people play on Bet Phoenix is a marketing tacit, it is called the Law of Reciprocation- one of the many weapons of influence (i'm sure he is doing it to be nice, but he does get something out of it). I have noticed that a lot of what he says is taught in a book called The Psychology of Persuasion. Read that book and you can sell someone a blade of grass.

I'm be in Harrah's this coming Tues-Thurs. I'll let you know how the games are. I was there last year around this time and they had 1 25 dollar table two 50 dollar tables, and a few high roller tables.

nobody is posting shoes up to practice against! I will start posting my shoes for S-40A. My scores are always going to be a lot lower than Ellis. I am still making mistakes and I am very conservative. Actually I think that the weakest part of my game is aggression. I started with 20 units on BP and I won extra 40 units in 3 days. I withdrew 40 of the units for something so I am starting back from 20 units again. between last night and today I was able to build my bankroll up to 44 units. Since I do not have a big bankroll I am playing very slow. I start out either flat betting or using a 1,1,2 until I figure out My MC's and LC's. Then I begin using a progression. Shoes 1: 11/30- BP +9, High +11 P412111212113 B6231211112 B1141 --------- Shoes 2: 11/30- BP +14, High +15, Low -5 P11113112113211 B21235412 P11221311112211 P212 ------- Shoes 3: 12/01- BP +5, high +9 B243224111 P121121231141 B123