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daytrader77459

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Everything posted by daytrader77459

  1. Hi Ellis, Nice to hear again on PJ, perhaps PJ can post shoes he won at Tunica in the NOR+ thread. It would be very helpful for us! Esp ahead of the upcoming April seminar! We need to have many shoes posted and reviewed using NOR+ so players can get a good feel for bankroll ups, downs, using U1D2. And really nail down Mode 1 vs Mode 3 switches off the 2nd bet results. Great job, PJ! Pls share shoes, bets, when u hv time to post! Thx. Regards, Daytrader77459
  2. Hi, PurpleInk, RD is about playing so-called "rain drops" type shoes where Repeats dominate over Opposites. The O/R count is heavily negative, and may flux for 3-4 points against - but then returns back to more negative again. Also, 1s are much lower than average, and the best RD shoes have 4s and 4+s being Most Common or at least high above average. RD1 is analogous to playing only Repeats - but with Mode 3 (winning 3rd bet). RD1 has one Singlet between Streaks of Repeats (or 3 ZZ - like PPPP B PPP). After the PPPP B P - attack for 2nd P. RD2 is similar but now there are two Singlets - PPPP B P BBBB. It is sort of a Mode 2 with 1 OTR, or a failed Mode 3 and then 1-u loss OTR and back to the Repeats again. In general, I do not like RD2 nearly as much - in my database, having two Singlets often is best played F/SS or TBL. You must watch the O/R flux and range of change. RD strategy needs and is fueled by Repeats - so that O/R score needs to turn back neg quickly. Ellis, Keith - HELP! I may have used RD1 and RD2 incorrectly. Perhaps RD1 is for a ZZ, and RD2 is for a ZZZ. However, I have used RD1 as 1 Singlet (ZZZ) and RD2 as 2 Singlets (ZZZZ) from a playing experience perspective. Sorry for the unintended confusion of nomenclature!!!! Please correct and/or add to my very simplified cash-game player's perspective. PurpleInk - I have not seen many RD2 shoe types over the past few years on the Strip. I have seen many F/SS, and TBL, and RD1. Also, if 1s are below avg, and O/R is neg, and 2s and 3s above avg - then you can obtain similar results using RD1 and OBL. In fact, Ellis may even recommend OBL over RD1 where 2s and 3s are heavy. But the results will be similar b/c of the powerful betting methods that he has taught us with 123 or U1D2, etc. Hope this helps - look at the old threads. There are RD sections there - just have to sort and print out those threads and piece it together. Happy gaming! Daytrader77459
  3. Hi Way2fast, Great - I know other BTC members and NOR students will really appreciate your tons of real cash game experience with NOR! Look fwd c u there! Way2Fast - last 3 days I played total of 9 shoes (really only 1/3 shoes) at you know where - our 2 favorite properties. Went 8 winning shoes, 1 break-even shoe - hit +45 units. Max bet 3u ever. One shoe was break-even. Had 8 shoes that hit +6 u per shoe. Three shoes gave back one loss each as I tried to see if NOR momentum would continue or not - so had 3 shoes +5 (total 15u) and 5 shoes at +6 (total 30u) = grand total of +45 units! I focused on very tight NOR and SAP parameters - and noted that every shoe somewhere would have triggers to signal the correct NOR method. Once locked in, Ellis' NOR strategy and betting 123 was so fluid and hit my per-shoe target of +5 units very quickly, and tried for more (greed!). Only one shoe required playing thru some wins/losses past 20 hds. The rest of the 7 winning shoes breezed thru and hit +5 or more under 20 hds! I am getting much better playing with NOR - but still using the metrics to avoid the tedious OBL terrain for myself. But on S40 and F/SS triggers - being very tight and selective and waiting - really paid off! FYI -Way2Fast is one of the most organized, and consistently disciplined gamers I know. And, we have played together many times now, playing NOR, playing "sniper" baccarat, together. And, Way2Fast and others we play with - deal with real $$$ levels. Mistakes, poor playing conditions, fatigue, etc., affects our win/loss bottom line! Ellis has produced several cash game "specialists" in the BTC membership for both NOR baccarat, and also BJ. His methods are robust and his focus on tight table and shoe selectivity is right on target! This is how we play. Attend the seminar - and get your personal questions/doubts answered by cash game practitioners of NOR. Watch and/or join when playing after the seminar and in between sessions! Don't miss this one. Regards, Daytrader77459
  4. Hi Ellis, Keith, I have spoken to some, and u know people wait to last days, or just show up and pay at door. I will be there, and will try to ask my BTC playing colleagues to attend also. Key point: for baccarat players, the explanations for NOR+, M1 vs M3, and coupled w U1D2 betting, my own live games have shown it works well! Any serious gamer should not.miss in depth talks on M3! Look fwd c fellow BTC players there at the NOR+ workshop! Regards, Daytrader77459
  5. Hi, Oz1, One more point about how I use NOR - I simply do not play OBL well at all. My rate of winning shoes in OBL "weather" is not very good. So, all my metrics and confluence triggers are focused to identify momentum trends in S40 and F2/F3 (or TBL or RD1/RD2) biases. I am certain Ellis and Keith and others can identify and play OBL much more strongly than I can. For example, I know that Way2Fast is a very strong OBL player as he is able to play sequential bets! This is necessary to win in OBL shoe games. Given this perspective, I have worked the metrics to filter out as much neutral and OBL type shoes. BTW - I do play OBL once in a while with the "sniper" baccarat approach. If the shoe is showing OBL - I will only try to go bet on the 2nds as my primary target. That's it, simple, quick. I have some success with this sniper mode - but playing thru sequential hds w OBL - for me, this is just painful and must be avoided for my comfort zone. Regards, Daytrader77459
  6. Hi, Oz1, I looked over the shoe you provided below. Your question of OBL vs changing over to a Streak (either F2/F3 or RD1/RD2) approach is a very good question and indicates that you are really studying NOR in detail. For many NOR players, the weakest areas (plenty of room to improve) include: 1. The desire or feeling or need - to actually be betting into the shoe all the time - every hand and GUESSING the correct NOR strategy. Better instead - let the shoe play out its O/R counts and SAP events slowly and at the SHOE'S pace (not at the player's expected pace). Look for specific O/R triggers to guide you into the correct NOR strategy. 2. The inability yet - which will come after more practice and debriefs and experience - is to develop acute "situational awareness" of the dynamics and flux of the O/R vs SAP events vs Mode 2/3 changes based on the player's win/loss outcomes. Let's go over your shoe below: 3. After the 1st 13 hds - P vs B was nearly equal at 7 vs 6. No strong bias. 4. The O/R count was fluctuating from +2 to -1 and then back to +2. This flux range of 3-4 O/R values again provides no strong bias. 5. In looking over the SAP events, the Least Common is "3" at zero. In having a slight O/R bias to +2 and LC 3, one could argue a lean towards S40 with M2 and go OTR on a "3" in a row. However, thus far, I would not consider OBL as there is no dominance of 3s or even 2s at this time. I would also not consider Streak after hand 13 - the O/R count bias to the upside is not indicating the use of any Streak strategy for now. I would not yet have made any bets to this point if played live cash game with my rule base. 6. But then look at the sudden Banker run with Hand 18 (now Banker at 5 iar). Look how the O/R dropped immediately from +3 (Hand 14) to a score of -1 by Hand 18. This is my trigger for a Streak bias kicking in hard. Stephen or Ellis or Keith may prefer O/R dropping down to -2 or more. But the rapid 5-point drop in the O/R consecutively over 5 hds is my trigger. 7. Also note that LC is still at 3. This means that Strong Side play should be F2 (LC 3). Oz1 - you can then play out Hand 19 all the way thru the end of the shoe. Even with the Player side showing shifts of 2s vs 3s, there is plenty of profit there playing out F2/F3 with a 123 U1D2 type schedule. This is how I would have been "guided by the shoe metrics" of the O/R and SAP events and the O/R range and O/R direction in a combined dynamic perspective. In summary: 8. No strong indication from my perspective for OBL - since I prefer to see excess of 2s and 3s and less 1s for OBL shoes. In the first dozen hds, the O/R is supportive of poss OBL, but the events of the SAP 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, - just did not make it a clear OBL shoe for me. 9. Also, in the first 18 hds, the O/R was in a 4-5 point range hovering near zero - again not indicative of any Streak trigger. Well, that's it for now - I hope you can get an idea of how I wait for "confluence of triggers" (O/R rapid drop of -5, plus 5 iar, plus LC 3) before acting on the SHOE's guide that Streak program is kicking in. This is similar to the way we trade monitoring program trading triggers in the S&P futures for rapid momentum moves. Or tracking big block volume trades which track large institutional trading program triggers. It cannot be hidden. Same with the NOR idea - the best NOR shoes will have confluence of supportive metrics and the confluence triggers happen quick and hard and simultaneously! As Ellis have repeatedly insisted and stated - we must choose only to play the best shoes with the strongest biases (whether it be table bias, shoe bias, color of deck bias, O/R bias, SAP bias, or P vs B bias, etc). Oz1 - the shoe provides tons of immediate info - many times, best to adopt the "lizard brain mentality" of just basking in the sun and doing nothing. And then act only when the shoe triggers confluence of its metrics. I have tons of live cash game shoes recorded that have validated this concept of confluence of triggers. Way2fast and I play this way in Strip casinos with large unit size - so we have to be very precise and tight and selective before engaging the shoe at hand. I have learned to enjoy the idea that doing nothing - letting hds go by as the O/R count is drifting and SAP counts nearly equal, and P vs B near equal - the best strategy is to WAIT. Or try Ellis' neutral net betting approach (but is much more complex). Hope this helps more than confuse you! Keep up with your research and questions as you develop your own unique NOR approach. But NOR remains the strongest combo, and coupled with Ellis' bet sched of U1D2 or U1D1, or 112 or 123 4, etc. - NOR easily provides winning shoes at a high % rate > 80% in our database. Good luck! Daytrader77459
  7. Hi, Oz1, Good ideas for playing a tight game format. Using NOR and the 112 or 123 or U1D2 schedules can often turn even weak shoes into mild winning shoes at the very least! Those horrible (-8) losing shoes are rare if using NOR with a clear thinking process. Also, very good idea to protect your stop loss points - so you can fire off at least two sets of 3 bets before hitting (-8). That is why I prefer 112 to start until I am at least +3 or better. And I look to exit asap at +5 after 2 losses on winning shoes. Daytrader77459
  8. Hi, Ellis, Great details and analysis! This shoe came off last week in one of the major Strip properties! And, I also in fact played out of S40 into a TBL format in light of the 2 LC count. Often, especially with LC 2, I find it just much more straight forward to deal with TBL instead of F2/F3. Either one, the O/R count and range and direction is less important than "just following the ZZ and streak runs" that Ellis described well. Thank you. Daytrader77459
  9. Keith, Way2fast, Great job on plays and details of decision-making biases! As Way2fast stated - playing thru recorded shoe history is full of hindsight bias traps! Much better training wise to have a NOR player call or type out shoes 1 decision at a time - like thru GotoMeeting or Google Chat or etc. Then we would not have "seen" the shoe type history - and really have to think thru and bias our decisions off the O/R, the SAPs, etc. More realistic and more challenging - all leading to improved NOR/NOR+/SAP gaming skills. Regards, Daytrader77459
  10. Hi, BTC members, I just wanted to post an "easy" shoe - but would like to see how the experienced NOR players would handle the 4 iar pattern in an S40 shoe game. Take a look at this shoe: P1111111133141 P21131242121 P411113111321 P1542 How best to play this shoe? Obviously started off w S40 - but use NOR+? Or use 123 4? Or straight to U1D2 or U1D1? How best to handle to 3-4 or more consec losers in real-time cash games? Also how best to handle the chgs in modes from M3? This shoe also when played early can be played as a TBL shoe type. But sticking with S40 - would you consider chg to any other NOR strategy? And if so, when? These are the typical "situational awareness" questions I ask myself when playing thru real cash games. BTW - seeing the above shoe notation - is too easy. Playing without hindsight bias - and practicing as such - that is where we can learn to gain confidence and trust in NOR/SAP. Look fwd to your input. Thx. Daytrader77459
  11. Hi, K1, Very good - look fwd to some collaboration and play w u. Once u have studied NBJ, I'd suggest u focus towards WCB as it is a much easier tactical BJ game to implement and more consistent. As Ellis, Keith, Aegis21, have all indicated - team BJ play is very possible and benefits from clumping (if shoes identified as such). However, team BJ plus a table full of NBJ/WCB players as 1 team (with some sacrifice hands) is a very strong way to go. Rt now I play solo - BP in spot 1, SPs in spot 2 and spot 3. I play WCB in the BP spot 1 position. I try to play sacrifice hds in spot 2, 3 - but using WCB tactics also for spots 2, 3 (which is different than the more elementary guidelines from the Team BJ Parlor manual). Pls keep us updated of your study and research/tests with NBJ, WCB - and when we can begin and record/document. Be a great fun project! Thanks, Daytrader77459
  12. Ellis, Keith, BTC members, BTW - the nature of my last post is to determine and meet up with experienced team BJ players that are active right now. I have yet to fully achieve the fantastic results that Ellis achieved with team BJ play in the Bahamas (although Ellis did mention the best team play is to combine team members plus some additional factors from NBJ/WCB - but this would complicate team BJ plays considerably). I'd like to continue real-time active BJ team work to try and achieve the Bahamas results. My results are positive - but always wonder if playing 7 spots would significantly increase positive results. I'd also like to record and debrief team BJ plays - without having to require all team members to be well-versed in NBJ or WCB. I know Ellis, CarlosM, Mad Dog, would strongly recommend use of NBJ/WCB for solo play. But I prefer to experiment with more on team play BJ so it can be much more FUN and profitable still, to the many less experienced BTC blackjack enthusiasts. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. Regards, Daytrader77459
  13. Hi, Ellis, Keith, Aegis21, CarlosM, BTC members, I have been using team BJ approach now for some time in Vegas - using 6 dks and playing 3 hds in spots 1,2,3. BP is spot 1. Then play as near to team BJ approach. Normally start of playing basic strategy until at least 2-3 shoes to get rhythm of the 6 dks. BTW - I don't sit at tables where they have shuffle machines that switch out 2 different 6dk colored shoes. I sit at hand-shuffled 6 dk tables. I have observed very frequently that no matter how many steps is tried, like add a spot, or remove a spot, or random vs dealer strategy, etc., it is best to play minimum bets for all BP and SP spots until there is real evidence that clumping has started or is already there. Unfortunately playing 3 hds for myself, it can take at least 3-5 shoes minimum. My question to the BTC members: is any of the BTC members currently and actively using Team BJ on a consistent basis? And recording detailed results, and observations? Aegis21? Chaz? Bluetri? I believe aside from Ellis and CarlosM's exploits using WCB that playing team BJ is really the most simple and relaxing way to play. But I'd like to see if others have success in the east coast or Florida or the Gulf regions. Ellis also mentioned that 8 dks should be good for team play. I realize team BJ play is not easy esp if have to meet up with team members on routine schedules, etc. But, I'd love to really attack team play opportunities with BTC members who also have some desire to exploit team BJ. And record and debrief details! Ellis - good opportunity for your own Team Ellis BJ movie? Or a good fun BJ book for game excitement reading like "Burning the Tables" genre? Please post your team BJ exploits (if any). I believe there is much more room to explore team BJ (esp w 5-7 hds vs only 3 hds). Regards, Daytrader77459
  14. Hi, Ellis, "You're always looking and watching the "bias" of the shoe. If you're running S40 and the shoe turns into a giant streak on either side, the bias has just changed! If you break the shoe up into roughly a set of three sections, it may look different in the third section than the first section. " Do you play NOR or NOR+ much more frequently via changing NOR strategies? Or changing the modes? If you were to change from S40 to F for example, at what metric would you make that change? Some potential metrics can include: 1. Change in O/R from positive to below (-2). 2. Change in O/R direction from highest down by (-3) from highest O/R count? 3. Perhaps suffering 4 consecutive losses? 4. See 3s and 4+s events occur back to back? Just trying to get a better idea as "when" and by what metric is best to adapt and shift to another NOR strategy. Stephen in his NOR Boot Camp dialog mentioned about O/R counts changing direction by +/- 3 in the O/R count. But this happens so frequently - it would cause constant switching from one NOR system to another. Precisely what would you recommend to trigger to alternative NOR strategy? Thank you. Daytrader77459
  15. Hi Stephen, In NOR Bootcamp training, u mentioned change of OR count by +/- 3 was indicative of trend chg of OR count, thus implying adapt to correct NOR strategy. R u suggesting NOR strategies be applied and changed mid shoe w all OR changes > +/- 3? Often, most shoes will hv OR counts drifting easily by more than +/- 3. For example, all consec 3 losses would chg OR trend. But, would u chg NOR strategy after 3 consec losses I hv played NOR w single strategy primarily based off OR, SAP events (LC,MC), and modes 2, 3. But, I hv not been switching NOR strategies. I play thru as per orig NOR plan and adj w modes. Ellis, any ideas on how best to adapt to OR chgs by +/- 3 or more? Or using OTR, modes, sufficient to keep NOR players from chgs NOR strategy once or more times per shoe? Thanks for both of ur inputs! Regards, Daytrader77459
  16. Happy New Yr 2013, Ellis, I hope you are feeling well and doing better! Quick question on the shoe Jerry posted below: 1. Why would you start a shoe unseen on play 2 with S40 mode 2 instead of OBT4L mode 2? 2. Are you advocating that we switch to U1D2 (not necessarily having a mandatory 2) as soon as we win a 1-unit bet? 3. In addition to question (1) above - why start S40 mode 2 - and not use your previous NOR+ S40 which was play U1D2 but using mode 3? From my playing perspective and database, starting play on 2nd hand is still too murky for me. I rather wait until I see a strong O/R count trend and/or 1s MCs or some other SAP indicator to help select S40 vs OBT4L vs F/SS. Thanks for your input always. Regards, Daytrader77459
  17. Hi, Stephen, Thank you for your input and ideas. Good to have various perspectives especially coming from another frequent player. Quick clarification - for your S40 modes discussion, I am assuming that the NOR player has scouted out tables favorable for S40 games. Or if preshuffled, at least have some data/information that the shoe at hand is unfolding to a S40 bias. For example, perhaps seeing a start like P11121 or something like that. I have always found it important to have the shoe lead us to decide which NOR approach is best. Thanks for your ideas again. Regards, Daytrader77459
  18. Hi, NormA, Great job of hit and run - 3 shoes, quick wins, exit profitably! Keep it going. As Way2Fast mentioned below, it would be very helpful to BTC members to have your shoes posted and your bets, decisions, etc. Hope you are feeling well - miss seeing you around in Vegas at Aria, Wynn, MGM, etc.! But - nevertheless, at least you are able to find good play conditions in FL there. Take care, and hope to see you sometime again if you venture out west to Vegas! Regards, Daytrader77459
  19. Ellis, Way2Fast, Stephen, Played one shoe tonite - buy-in of 30 units playing high stakes. Saw 1st 4 hds being PPPP. Thought, hmmm, F/SS game. Jumped in, two bets, shoe went P6. Then tie hand. Stopped betting after tie. Then 1 Bank. Waited, then another Bank. Thus: P62 so far - or PPPPPP BB Played Bank F2 - Bank went 4 more times, now +6 u for the shoe. Shoe is P66 or PPPPPP BBBBBB. Seeing a 6-6 pattern, elected to wait and see next outcome. Jumped to PP. Now at P662 - played Player F2 - shoe went P664 - won 2 more bets to +8u, but lost 1 hd to +7u. Exited at +7. Shoe went ragged quickly into an OBL m2/m3 alternating sequence. Players lost all their winnings quickly and more. I stopped play after about 20 mins of play w +7 u net. Shows the power of waiting for a strong shoe bias as Ellis repeatedly instructed us for BOTH baccarat and BJ. See my brief BJ play in the BJ thread also. Went back to hotel room to relax. This week, plenty of play left to attack. Also awaiting my NOR team colleagues like Way2Fast and HawaiiAl to join in our next NOR campaign weekend adventure very soon. Thank you Ellis for SAP, NOR. Daytrader77459 PS - for newbies and non-NOR baccarat players - TAKE NOTE: NOR does NOT guarantee winning shoes. However, NOR does a fantastic job of "matching" lucky consistent shoe bias with very strong betting application. If unlucky and get a losing shoes we find out quickly and can often get out max (-6u), but much more often exit bad shoes at near break-even to (-2u). However winning shoes - NOR players can easily get +5 to +10 profits quickly. More aggressive NOR players (which I am definitely NOT a part of that group) can get +15u or more in profits. PSS - Buy NOR, practice, ask questions, attend Ellis & Stephen NOR seminars, play with NOR players. Easy direct "recipe" for baccarat success. Ellis goes after 90% winning shoes! I am not there yet - but able to get in the 70% to 80% win rate! More to learn and improve! Always... PSSS - Ongoing SAP, NOR baccarat focus: (1) look for and WAIT for strong shoe biases; (2) apply correct SAP/NOR strategy; (3) accumulate profits quickly; (4) look to exit quickly when NOR bias changes - I DO NOT change NOR strategy - I stick to my initial NOR strategy and then just exit/bail out of the shoe once the bias has changed with locked up profits; (5) bankroll mgmt, profit locks!
  20. Way2Fast, Yes - painful to watch Operation OBL being unleashed to the group. I did manage to continue do well with SAP, NOR, and focused OBL on 2nds and after 2-3 chops betting 2nds. Able to win 4 days, 1 break-even day. Look fwd to our next "NOR mission". Daytrader77459
  21. Way2Fast, You may be right! BJ is more challenging but more "fun" also - as it really tests the player's focus, decision-making skills. We were up at Tahoe - they have single deck BJ paying out 3:2 BJs. Doubles allowed for 10s and 11s only. Also had double decks, and 6 decks with no surrender. Played 3 sessions of single deck - blacks and purples. Played < 1 hr per session. Played 3rd base 1 hand. Solo, no other players. They changed new cards every hour at single deck! 2nd session - had one player playing 1st base. Cards did NOT exhibit clumping - and 1st base 10s predictability was < 50%. Overall results: Session 1: buy-in 30 chips. Max profit +18 units. Exited at +13 units after losing 4 consec hds betting 1-1-1-2. Duration 35 mins. Session 2: buy-in 20 chips. Max profit +13 units. Exited +8 after losing 1-1-1-2. Duration 55 mins. Note - very random cards, minimal clumps < 4-5 cards clumping. Also difficult to predict W-L-W-L structure, patterns of W vs L random. Also did not have many consec winning hands, but often had 2-3 consec losing hds which ALERTED me to find an exit point. Probably should have exited sooner. The profit curve went from +13 to +1 to +5 to +2 to +13 (pressed and won a couple of good doubles with 3u) to +8. Played solo. Session 3: buy-in 30 chips. Max profit +11. Exited at +6 units after losing to 1-1-1-2. Duration was 25 mins. Also had dinner soon so already mind-set was to play quick hit-and-run. Played solo. Again, new deck, very random. Observations - mostly played BS with random cards, very few clumps > 4-5 cards. Difficult to read Dealer hole card, also difficult to predict 1st Base 10s first cards. So stayed with BS throughout. Also, mostly played Dealer Strategy with lows running, and I did observe that dealer hands were often also a high-low hand - and Dealer hand busted at a reasonable rate > 1/6 times. One other thing, Dealer 1st card 10 up - scary - but often had a low card underneath - many BS players would have prematurely BUSTED ahead of a Dealer weak hand as Ellis frequently highlighted for us! I also saw Dealer hands lose to my hands or pushes - b/c dealer hands were 17s or 18s even if dealer had pat hands. Summary - it was fun to play single deck with 3:2 BJ finally! And to play solo heads up and win and run quickly. Thanks, Ellis. Daytrader77459
  22. Hi, Way2Fast, Great to hear from you! Hope you are getting in some relaxation time in between your travels! Well, I agree with you on the bias towards OBL - even if an early 4 in a row suggests possible F/SS bias, we both know how often we are seeing and playing into OBL. At least if not OBL early on, then often OBL quickly becomes the dominant bias thru the shoes. Plus, in this shoe start example, the oscillating nature of the O/R count suggested an OBL bias although at this point, 1s + 4s > 2s + 3s, from an SAP perspective, it can be argued for TBL or F/SS also. In any case, I elected to play this shoe out using F/SS since my experience is more with SAP - but I monitored the O/R and 2s, 3s, events on weak side very tightly. When playing out F/SS - once the dominant side is over and the shoe switches to the new side, I have often just exited the shoe and lock up profits at hand. In other words, with F/SS - I have been playing only the dominant side. I have found that F/SS that switched frequently often turned out best to be played using OBL - especially if F/SS with primarily 4s and little or no 5+s. Shoes with many 4s can still be played well using OBL M3. Way2Fast - I will PM you the shoe as it played out. Also, please PM your sched - definitely will enjoy meeting up and playing and having dinners again soon! BTW - many of my group friends got hit big time as 3 major Strip baccarat high limit pits all threw OBL shoes - and the players could not react to OBL shoe games! How unfortunate - they should have joined BTC and been NOR players. But - as I've said before - most play for emotional gains/benefits. Only a few select players play to win. Pls say hello to your "boss" also! Look fwd to see you again soon! Best regards, Daytrader77459
  23. Hi, Ellis, We play primarily at the major Strip places - and these allow cards to touched, written on, wrinkled, folded, ripped, and eaten! :-) Every new shoe comes in a wrapped 8-dk pre-shuffled package. I believe that these pre-packed shoes were originally shuffled and packaged and verified from overseas (Asia). Many times, several tables would show different biases of OBL vs S40 vs F/SS simultaneously. On occasion, Way2Fast and I have been in high limit pit areas where ALL the tables may be showing strong biased shoes of OBL. Then these I usually pounce on with OBL - focusing on hitting the 2nds most often. In the shoe start example I posted earlier on this thread - part of the challenge was to see how NOR players would best start - and when - if the tables do not have any strong bias. I know you often emphasize DO NOT PLAY unless we have strong bias recon info. But - nevertheless - if we lean on the bias of OBL and S40 with the shoe start I showed below - then how and when would you begin betting, and what is your strategy/selection system? Thank you for your time and input. Daytrader77459
  24. Hi, Stephen, BTC members, With regards to your NOR instructions, what have you been suggesting for game starts? For example, I elect not to play until I see at least 4 events - or I see at least 9 hands. Then, if there is some bias from the O/R and SAP profile, I begin to look to apply the best fit NOR strategy. I know Ellis often starts as early as after 2-4 plays - especially if he strongly feels/identified a particular table/shoe bias such as early morning preps, etc. In this start - the casino uses pre-shuffled boxed 8 dk bacc games. Once from the box, they go thru the routine of cutting in 1/2 decks, applying riffle shuffle, followed by strip shuffle. I have not been able to detect strong biases for pre-shuffled, boxed games. Certainly not anywhere near the consistency that Ellis saw in Tunica with early morning prep using handwashed shuffles. I am curious - if you were to suggest a NOR start - what guidelines and which NOR strategy would you prefer with the following start? Note there are 4 events passed, and at least 9 plays into this start sequence: B14131 O/R (-1) Any other start guidelines/observations from BTC members? Later - I will post the actual play and shoe from my perspective. Thank you. Daytrader77459
  25. Ellis, Great anecdote - especially about being able to remain flexible enough to play both baccarat and BJ at the same time! :-) What you say is very true about gambling and professional trading - easy to learn and grasp key guidelines and winning strategies. However - putting it into real effective practice on a daily or weekly basis, and then being able to pull out profitable sessions frequently and consistently - this is what is really difficult for most individuals. I also know from my own experiences with traders and gamblers that most will simply avoid having to do the necessary "work" to get to a winning high performance consistent basis. Many I know in the trading and gaming community - they really do not want to win. They trade and gamble to fulfill their own inner needs and get internal benefit(s) from the mere act of trading and gambling. But - to win daily as you did - that is definitely not easy. It boils down to the discipline and focus you have on wanting to be able to select the best daily and table conditions, and then matching the optimal strategy to that specific condition(s) for both baccarat and BJ. You have the SKILL of patience (focus, wait for optimal daily, table, shoe conditions), the SKILL of execution (match ideal NBJ and NOR strategy to the shoe at hand), and the SKILL of bankroll mgmt to lock up profits quickly when "the worm turns" - and to exit quickly if the shoe is not responding as expected. You can leave after only several hands/bets if the table is not performing well. Very few I know can do this many times daily! These are true SKILLS that we BTC members pursue to develop and improve on a daily basis! I hope that the High Stakes BJ seminar(s) will clearly be able to pass along/translate your BJ skills to the average BJ player - as long as that player has a good understanding of the principles in ZPC, NBJ, and WCB. I look forward to it. Thank you, Ellis. Daytrader77459
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