Edgonsal

I played a shoe at Mohegan Sun in CT Monday morning and just tried it with 4D B1131211221221 P1122131171 P112132312112 P1411 I tried to predict the next outcome based on the counts (I wrote a "P" or "B" next to each column for each hand result) and picked the majority of the next predicted outcome and then circled the correct previous column result. It was well over 50% correct in predicting. BTW if the 4 columns (P/B - O/R - O/T - OO/TT) showed 2 P's and 2 B's - I skipped the bet and recorded the result. The strongest bet in this shoe was TTBL reaching a plus 10 at times. I wouldn't have even looked at that if not for 4D. Food for thought I realize that this isn't the exact way that 4D should be played but I just wanted to post this shoe for practice and share my thoughts. Comments and/or suggestions are always appreciated

If you go to the upper right hand corner and type "practice shoes" in the Advanced Search box - you should find some shoes there to learn from. Read everything that's offered and you'll be on the right track. Good luck!!!!

Hi Keith. I have tried to access this forum as well with no luck. Can you please advise how to gain access? Thanks, Ed

Best wishes to Ellis for a full and speedy recovery , Ed Gonsalves

The first shoe looks like an OTB4L - you could go OTR after 2 losses in a row for one bet than right back to OTB. (Would work very well with all of those 2's and 3's) The reason for going OTR after two is that nothing went over 4 iar. The second shoe would work very well with S40M1 (TBL) those three 5 iar's would get you a quick win after only 21 hands. (You only had three 2's in this shoe so you would be winning most of your 1's, 3's 4's and 5's. You would lose to the 2's that follow 2 iar or more but would win your first 1 of 2 iar bet following a 1)

Hey kileau, ALL SHOES always look easy after the fact. It's what we do at the table that counts. How soon did you start betting in this shoe? OTB does look good in the first seven hands. However, after the first 12 hands - you had three 1's (MC), one 2, one 3 and one 4. I would be thinking S40M1 (TBL) here. In your first twenty plays you only had two 2's which - you still win 2 bets in your 4iar, 2 bets in your 3iar and 3 bets in your 5iar. Your next 21hands - had only two 2's again. Still strong for S40M1. Your next 19 hands had only one 2. S40M1 is for low 2's only 5 in your whole shoe. The other point to always consider is when to go OTR in OTB - its always your option to go OTR (for one bet only) after 2 losses in a row (rather than three) if that's what the shoe is showing you. If you keep S40M1 in mind - you should have an easier time.

You're missing out on a lot without the manual to guide you. Best of luck

How do you post your picture on here? I uploaded it and it's in my profile, but it won't post? Hope that someone knows how, Thanks, Ed

I didn't ******BIG SHOUT OUT TO KEITH***** Ellis just replies to the threads - that's why

A modest gambler is normally a winning gambler . We all learn from someone and now we can all learn from you and the other members of OUR forum. Such a great concept!! Keep sharing buddy - Thanks

Awesome post Dark, Motivating and true!!!

Great post OZ, I love progressive thinking. After all, We are only picking either player or banker. Heads or tails in a coin toss Money management is what wins in the casino!!! I try to remember that at the table before I enter what I like to call "The 51st state - The State of Confusion" LOL Picking Player or Banker is centuries old now - I wonder how many have gotten in right? Thanks for your input. Would be fun to meet you sometime Ed

I've played at the table with Dave Gunas at Mohegan a few times. (Never saw him win - Go figure????). When I saw him, he was playing around with dragon bets. He hit a 30 to 1 which put him up and a couple of ties. He didn't leave when he hit a reasonable goal so they took his money. He is very personable and has great energy!!!! Maybe I just saw him on a bad day? I've used net betting on my scorecards and in the casino. It easy to do and it works. I've done it for years now when trying out new approaches. Personally I enjoy playing together with a partner. Helps break up the boredom

Hey Guys & Gals, Just want to share some thoughts about the NOR manual and more importantly this private forum. First the manual : - It can be a bit much at first to digest until you break it down to the basics. IMO - it's update time (maybe an online addendum with some illustrated sample shoes and the most recent changes) I personally believe that the manual should be updated every couple of years to keep up with the times. As the quality of our players improve, so should our manual for learning. I found the illustrated Sands shoes very useful Also a direct reference or even better the actual illustration of the sample shoes for all current 3 NOR systems would make it easier for all to understand. The concept of NOR is great and very logical. Ellis is a true professor by leading us to learn from studying these pages again & again. Not simply giving us all of the answers - making you figure it out and ingrain the material in your brain as second nature. Hope I don't sound too much like a teacher. After all, I have been accused of lecturing on occasion LOL That's my manual review - hope that I'm not out of line. The Forum : This has been such a pleasure and soooooo helpful working together. A huge THANK YOU to ELLIS for all of his hard work and dedication for teaching us ALL!!!!! The members on here are truly a class act and always eager to help. THANKS TO ALL IMO - If we all share our ideas than we can really limit those shoes from hell from kicking our butts! We should post some bad shoes and ask each other for thoughts and experiences of how to think outside of the box to either beat them or at least survive them - MM, when to switch systems or leave the table. Let's make this a common practice - IT WILL HELP US ALL!!! Post some good shoes and why they worked. What prompted us to choose that System and why. Dr. E (Ellis) will always aid us in our thinking and clarify the best approach. (He won't lead us astray) Let's continue to make this place the best site for "BEATING THE CASINO" Thanks for reading this and hopefully keeping this thread going by adding your thoughts:) Ed

Most shoes that I tested worked well with a 2 man system Usually +8 to +10units within 35-40 hands. The bet progression is the tricky part. I like the 1,2 but maybe a 1,2,3 U1D1 would be better? Some shoes would have been better with S40 & OTB rather than S40M1. Scorecard is easy O/R (if you want) P - B "space for score" S40 column - OTB column CIRCLE YOUR WINS and units bet in S40 & OTB columns I'm thinking of a 16 unit bankroll for two people. Try it and let me know what you think

You bring up a good point. I have been going over my recently played cards trying to combine the OTB & S40M1. Works pretty well on over 80% of all shoes. I played both sides for both sides to win with a 1,2 progression I Bet 1 unit on the side that just lost, a little tricky to do so I put both columns on my score card. I tried it out at Foxwoods $10 table (was up 2 units from the last shoe) I figured that I would only be down 6 units if it lost - no biggie. The shoe B1311223112 I was on the wrong side for every bet. If I played S40M1 alone I would have been +4 If I played OTB I would have been up between +2 to +5units (depending on when you go OTR). I do after 2 losses. I should have only played one way!!! I've thought about waiting after a 3 iar to cut out the some of the losses with both systems combined. There is no Holy grail, but we're trying LOL What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks for clearing that up for me

Your right Ellis - the +28 shoe turns to +65 (3,4,5 always start again at 3 even after losing the full progression) The plus +30 shoe turned to a + 59 (I feel confident enough to start at play 2 if I know the table bias in advance) I should also mention that I go back to a 3 bet after any win. U1D1 would add an extra 5 - 7 units to the final score. I prefer to go OTR after 2 losses in a row (seems to help more with the ZZ's than SS) and play the on again/off again for the long runs.

Hi Tlam62, U1D1M2 means that you go up 1 unit when you lose and drop it down one unit after you win. M2 means a mandatory 2 unit bet as your lowest bet. Example is when you bet 2 units (minimum bet of 2 units - NOT ONE UNIT) on P or B and lose - your next bet is 3 units on P or B you lose again - your next bet would be 4 units on P or B and you win - you drop down 1 unit. (4 -1 = 3) so your next bet is three units on P or B and you win again and drop down 1 unit (3 - 1 = 2) now your back to your mandatory 2 unit bet. U1D2 means that you start out with a 1 unit bet and drop down 2 units after a win. Example would be to win a 3 unit bet - you just lost 2 in a row which put you at a 3 unit bet, you win so you drop down 2 units back to a 1 unit bet (3 - 2 = 1) You should look at the universal baccarat glossary of terms Good luck, Ed

Ha Ha - I'm still a fugitive in the Baccarat world. LOL BTW - I know this thread is for S40M1 but wanted to share these 2 shoes. played at huge bias table at Foxwoods yesterday for OTB4L 1ST Shoe - B2432132111 P1121212212221 B1221221121222 B1 (scores + 28 units with only a 2 high bet then back to 1 win or lose) 2nd shoe - P3122131111211 P22221223112 P1212133241 B1131 (scores + 30 units with only a 2 high bet) These were hand shuffled cards at a no commission table. Table selection is SOOOOOOO crucial. NOR is my head now! Thanks Ellis The table right next to me was a strong side table for 3 straight shoes in a row with common runs of 6 iar's & more all over the board. It's my pleasure to post these shoes for a great example of OTB4L and hope that it helps, Ed

Thanks Ellis, I just amended my last post (sent from my cell). I do totally support this forum. Oh well, back to business as usual. I'm off to Mohegan first & then Foxwoods! BTW - as you mentioned, everyone is always trying to figure out my scorecard LOL

Ellis, I have worked for myself for lots of years now and still don't like doing things for free.. However, sometimes I make the decision to do so for the greater good and the potential of refferals and the opportunities that may come from it. I read these logs on a daily basis and go back to the manual often. Learning to trust NOR 100% will take time for me but I'm confident that with enough practice, that I will be a better player with casino money in my pocket on a regular basis. That should be our goal every time we hit the tables! I know that you are a very smart & logical thinker, other wise I wouldn't have joined in the first place. You may be misunderstanding my intent - IMO, both you and Keith want us all to win, correct? We should all aspire to play as well as both you and Keith do. You both know how to read the shoes and adjust accordingly. I'm simply stating that from one business owner to another - please don't penalize the other members of this forum For not attending the first time around. It's not my place to speak for anyone else on this site, but I hope that other members will chime in on their need to have the latest winning formula at their disposal. And of course to be fair to the members who attended - PAY FOR IT. I'm not asking for anything for free. As you profess often - this is the best approach to Baccarat And the best site. Let's all keep up the good work and learn as much as we can from each other. Thanks for all of your hard work Ed

Ellis, That's all fine but, if you want to be fair to all on here - than they should have the option of purchasing the webinar as well to improve their play. I'm sure that if the players who attended post posative results from the webinar that Other members will be interested in obtaining it and in turn increasing your overall Participation at the next event. Win/Win

This is just something that I wrote about. I played that shoe and commented on what Ellis came up with to beat it. It wasn't anything released by anyone that did the webinar. The material covered yesterday should help you win. I'm sure over time that everyone will benefit from the webinar. Good luck to you and win some money Ed

Hey Bluetri, Although I didn't do this seminar, (I did the Bethlehem trip) S40M1 is very obvious to me just by looking at Ellis's scorecard. I totally understand that this site is a business, however we should keep in mind that if we all unite then we have a much better chance of helping each other "Beat The Casino".