Natural_9

I am seriously considering going. Can you go a little more in-depth, way2fast?

It's this kind of wisdom that needs to be put into another manual.

Yes, MVS said a while ago that he was pulling a check from Betphoenix. I don't know if he still is. There has been chatter behind closed doors around here about betphoenix and I didn't want to stick money in their banks without having appropriate assurance of good business practices.

I would pay my left pinky finger if I could use and trust an online live casino to play in. Does anybody have serious experience with Betphoenix? Does anyone know if this is a good place to go for us? Withdrawals, etc?

That looks to me like a S40M1 shoe. I would have entered at hand 5, gone down to -3 units by hand 9, then stuck it out to hand 28, testing the limit of +7 three times before getting out. I also played it as a TT shoe, netting +5 units by hand 17, and an O shoe netting +5 units by hand 18. Not all shoes are going to get you 10 - 20 units. Making +5 units per shoe with a high hit rate is a sign of great skill. Honestly these look like very random cards.

Hi, Your question is too general, please break it down into smaller questions. Can you post some examples of what is giving you trouble? 1. Mode 1 is only for S40. That is a different system. S40M1 is really TB4LM3. However your description of it is adequate. I have not heard of people playing OTB4L as M1 ever. 2. Mode 2 goes OTR for 1 bet and if that wins, then you can bet again but if you miss that second bet, you don't bet twice no matter the mode. 3. Mode 3 only goes OTR ONCE. Then wait. 4. OTR in NOR normally means you bet ONCE on the run and then I recommend you WAIT until the run stops. Do NOT chase runs all over the place looking for a pot of gold. I have found this to be true, you can also ask PapaJoe or Norm, the most accomplished players here and they will confirm this. The other choice is to bet on, off, on the run alternating until the run stops. This will beat most runs IF you have the timing right. 5. Not betting is a legitimate form of playing. Get used to it. As Norm says "WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT"

You lucky so-and-so. What I wouldn't give to have a reliable online casino I could play at for 3-4 nights a week.

In truth, Jenny, if you are a beginner, you should just study NOR for now. 4D is not yet a completely mature methodology - at least not in the way NOR is.

I say use the JSTAT count and bet the pushes when you get a chance.

I thought there was a whole row about a group of players with fat bankrolls storming Chicago EZ-bac tables and counting the Dragon. It got so bad, that my casinos now set the rules that you are forced to bet the table minimum on a regular play whenever you bet the Dragon. Ha! Also, whenever I have a hot night, my casino likes to jack the table minimums every 30 minutes to freeze me out lol.

The point with 4D is that the goal is trying to guarantee a minimum 1 unit win on any shoe. Whether or not it achieves that is the question. In theory we want to be able to teach players to read every shoe and never set foot in a bad shoe - thereby enabling everyone to play with black and purple chips. Whether or not 4D actually achieves this is a matter of enormous debate. My own works shows 4D to be interesting and useful sometimes.But there are a lot of little niggling rules and shoe tracking required to employ it, making it more difficult to use than NOR.

Yes, yes. Thank you; but to whom do I go to GET the recordings, etc? Where is it available for purchase?

These are beautiful, Thank you MVS. Does anybody know where the rules are for S40M1? It's been talked and talked about but I cannot find the rules for it anywhere. I'm guessing that's a sales tactic?

More interesting than that is that there is an obvious trend of the hold declining from Roulette. Are people learning to win roulette? Or is the variance all within the expected sample. I'd like to see historical win records from Roulette.

holy h$&%, I am so confused by this thread.

It would be very easy to install wireless control in such a machine. They may also upload a file on a jump drive first thing in the morning. Have a computer build hands that are favorable to the casino, write that out in a file and then upload. Such a file would be tiny, maybe only 300-500 KB for a whole days' worth of shoes. Wireless would be a very easy way to do it.

Good question. I would have entered as OTB4L at hand 6.

Hi all, My name is Jared, and I'm a serious Bac and Craps player working on going pro - I play 60 unit bankrolls, $20 units - just bought the NOR manual and watched it destroy my best systems handily, winning every shoe I threw at it (even ones that two of my other three systems lose on) by no less than 14 units. I am convinced that NOR is the best way to play bac. In fact, OTB4L somewhat reminds me of my best system, P, but it is less complicated and is easier to follow. At any rate I have a few questions for the forum: 1. Example games? Where do you find these? a. I am having trouble with F shoes - they seem to get worse for me as the OR count gets more negative. b. Can somebody post an example game of an OTB4L shoe that goes OTR in a ZZ or SS? This seems to me to be a complicated problem. 2. I have managed to find Ellis' original NOR+ post but I'm not entirely sure what he means by it. Do you still keep an OR count? 3. Templates/examples for the score cards? I just write my own but I wanted to see what other people do. 4. How many hands do people normally wait before picking a system? I seem to find that guessing the system after the first 6 hands is ok, but I wondered what other people thought. 5. Does NOR work with online casinos? Conventional wisdom would seem to point to no. And I have one offering for the forum: If you need an accurate way to practice, any device with Android OS can download the app "Zuan Xin Lucky Dragon Baccarat" for free. It's all in garish bright red and gold, but it runs a simulator that simulates shuffle and draw from a real shoe, complete with card burning and everything. I find it to be far more realistic than a RNG. It also tries to teach you Xin analysis, which attempts to win ONE unit a shoe, I think on the premise that you are meant to be using enormous units and a gargantuan bankroll - the practice bankroll is $1000000.00 lol.