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Hello fatherfred, I did not sign up yet, I'm still new to NOR. That's my focus right now to grasp the concept and use it on the right moment when there is an opprtunity. Maybe my next step is MDB if I get to use to NOR approaches.

Hi again Ellis, All are touch games here except for few tables (2). 200 pesos minimum bet = 4.5 USD untouched but this one have a continuous shuffler / dispenser (brand: master shuffler model one to six with 6 decks on it) in the table. I can see a lot of times this having more bias than other table with touch games. They only change the cards if the dealer will change for next shift. 300 pesos = 6 USD, 500 pesos= 11 USD, 1000 pesos= 23USD, and 2000 pesos= 43USD all are touch games. I still did not read F2 and F3 instructions I’m looking for it I don’t know if they are the same as F. One of the post that I’ve read is you are assigning F play for (SS) Strong sided shoe type but in the manual that I received it is for SS and streaky shoes, side by side. That’s why I’m little bit confused and also the six sample shoe for NOR is F is for streaky and the instruction as well. Anyway if I find F2 and F3 instructions I will check again the posted shoe. Thanks a lot…….

Hi Ellis ( and any experience player), I already answered where I'm playing it is in post #12. I hope you're okay Ellis...... I cannot see anymore card prep on the table I think that was 15 years back or so. What I can see now is the cards will pass thru a transparent backroom of the casino with casino personnel only allowed. The 8 sealed boxes of cards will arrived on a plastic colored box with lock on it. They will be opened and they will mixed it by hand face down, I think even the used cards they do it that way, the only difference is the used cards they are checking it for crumpled or torn. I’ve no idea what they do if found unusable. I cannot ask questions. It seems everybody does not know anything including the pit bosses. I can see 2 shuffling machines (transparent with green color). After mixing the cards by hand they will load it to that shuffler. I cannot tell how long because all eyes of casino personnel inside is on me. So I get away. …. I don’t wanna be suspected of spying. I think after all this process they will load the bundle of 8 decks to a transparent plastic container with seal. Then this container will go to the table, the pit boss will open it with the dealer beside him/her then any passerby’s player will be asked to cut the cards and the pitboss will get the white card to insert at the end as a marker for the last deal then load the cards to the dispenser. Then the dealer will burn cards according to the first card that will come out. Let say it is a king, he will burn ten more cards accordingly (value of 10) if an ace 1. Then the dealer will deal 2 hands and enter the result in the tote bard (computer electronic board). That’s it, anybody can start playing on this table. BTW the card brand is club angel. Now because of this, I think in your own description of regular, factory pre-shuffled cards, this is not the way. To what I think it is a tampered casino cards. So how can I beat this if NOR will not work on it. Nowadays I’m seeing a lot of this type of shoe. I’m only focusing to NOR only because I’m very new to it. If NOR will not be enough as my equipment what else can I try. Is net betting applicable to this type of shoe? Thanks…………….

Hi way2fast, Ellis said to post more shoes, so here it is what I collected last time. I don't have yet the budget to upgrade to MDB that is why I'm only focusing on the application of NOR, unfortunately I'm encountering this type of shoe. It's very rare now that I'm seeing the shoe that is more suitable for NOR, I think in order for me to win, I'll quit when I'm ahead of 2 to 3 units. Then find another table. Anyway thank you very much in taking the time to play the shoe I've posted (seen the details in MDB forum). shoe #1 B311221434 P1114231115 P313132111111 P34211 shoe #2 B4231145 P4211112413 P22111221111131 P1215 shoe #3 B411312316 P31925 B12311223116 shoe #4 P11124312113 B226232111 P421123431

Hi Ellis, I’m playing in PAGCOR (Philippine Amusement Game Corporation) that have many branches all over the Philippines. I’m located in Manila. Before this type of shoe is not there but there are certain times of the day that this type of shoe will appear on many tables of the casino. I guessed that they change something in the shuffle of the cards. This type of shoe is really difficult to beat. I’ve no idea what brand of cards they have, but I know it is made in China. Next time I’ll check it out and post more shoe. The shoe posted is different from the picture shown. This is for wolfat to see if I got the suggestion. Thanks Ellis for dropping by, so that means I cannot use the NOR approach to this type of shoe. I’m still new to NOR and I think I’m already done with the concept, now I’m practicing to apply it fully by going to this land base casino to make a paper bet only. I’d like to know how far it can get. But seeing this type of shoe that I’ve posted (not the picture). I think I have to avoid such shoe because I don’t know how to play MDB+. There are choppy shoe maybe 2 tables and streaky, 212131417 and the usual TT. Thanks

Hi Bacclover, Sorry for the late reply. I'm quite busy nowadays. Its not clear what you are suggesting but maybe I have figure it out, just see first the attachment plus a little explanation. Maybe this the one you are suggesting me to do. Thanks for your interest in my matters.... Can you check also this play if NOR will beat this, or what system of NOR will beat this. P135112421 B22311213122 P1131141116 P1122141 Nowadays I'm seeing this type of play everyday on many shoes. Thanks again man........and good day.........

Thanks bacclover....... If that is the case I might not be utilizing the strength of NOR as a whole. I brought this out because my strategy is not betting on every hand. I am used to flat betting and the only prog that I am using is 112. I'm thinking that maybe there is a way that utilizing NOR as a whole and bet only on the hand that most likely to win. I'm still practicing on S40 and OTB4L. May I know exactly on how to switch to this two system? Is the OR count the only clue we have?

Hello there, I'm still studying the concept of NOR, is there a way not to bet every hand for NOR? I hope somebody can help me. It will be suitable for me if there is a way. Because I'm not use to betting every hand. Thanks in advance...

Hello there CT70, If you don't mind can you tell me how long you are using this NOR? Did you purchase also the MDB? If you are already fluent in using NOR can you give the length of time you need to figure out the next bet selected and put the right bet size on it according to your NOR scorecard before the dealer start the next hand. How long will that be? I'm asking these because I want to know if it will suit the casino environment here in my country. We have casinos here which is run by the government and private one's like Resort World and others. They are like mushrooms here now that pops up suddenly, before it was just the government run casinos. Most of the dealers here really were fast and so with the gamblers making their bet without thinking, some maybe thinking but very quick. Very few dealers here were really giving time to the players at the table. I don't know if NOR or MDB can give me a quick response before the dealer deal the next hand. Thanks CT70 for the recommendation and encouragement and time to reply. Let us see first what Kingstar will tell me.

Hi kingstar, I'm from the Philippines. Can you tell me your venture with NOR, how does it perform in RWS. I'm really thinking to get NOR also but I'd like get an honest opinion from those who are newly using it. Thanks.