[NOR --additional betting Strategy]

Grat, yours is an extremely interesting and well written post and your thoughts are right on.

So is your shoe extremely interesting. Anyone who thinks this shoe is the result of randomly shuffled cards, well, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Grat, one question: Were the cards offered to a player to cut before they went into the shoe???

Guys, I warned you before: Preshuffled cards should definitely be illegal. Such casinos should be told so and then boycotted by players en masse. First there is the minor problem: How do you know all the cards are there?????

But then there is a major problem: it offers the casinos the golden opportunity to insert "designer" shoes.

What is a designer shoe? It is a shoe designed by a casino expert to be unbeatable. Then they arrange the cards accordingly.

Look, the shoe came to the table sealed. You have NO IDEA of what happened to those cards before they got to the table SEALED. How were they prepped? How were they shuffled? OR were they arranged by a highly paid casino professional. You have no idea.

But, from experience, I can tell you this much: You give a casino this much opportunity to cheat, there is simply too much money at stake. Sooner or later they are going to cheat. It's TOO big a temptation to offer to a casino on a gold platter.

Even if the cards are offered to a player to cut: There is a very simple slight of hand maneuver a trained dealer can use to put the cards right back in their original order completely cancelling your cut. I've had this shown to me by player friendly dealers. Believe me, you'll never catch it even if you are looking for it.

Casinos do not call this cheating! They have a way of justifying it to their own satisfaction - sort of a mental masturbation.

But try it in a Saturday night poker game! You're likely to get shot!

Look, That is a designer shoe! Plain and simple! You can't shuffle the cards legally and have them happen to fall in the exact order to produce a 556 and then all 1s and 2s. Come on! Get real! Or maybe you'll like this bridge I've got?

So, do we complain? NO! Look, casino control commissions are paid by the casino. Everybody you could complain to is paid by the casino. It's like a bad dream and you'll likely get yourself barred to boot.

But there is a better reason not to complain!

Grat is right! Designer shoes are easy to beat especially if you are expecting them.

Look at the shoe again. If you knew some pro designed it, you could beat it couldn't you. You would be alert for the worm to turn wouldn't you.

Yep, they are smart bastards. But we are smarter.

Hi Prof. Ellis,

I must thank you, first as a wonderful teacher and the encouraging and kind comments that you gave me. The lessons that you taught us (as members of your family) inspired us to go forth and do likewise (to Beat the casino).

I would like to elaborate on the “Presuffled card†in the Singapore contex.

The Casino Regulatory Authority is a Govt. Department under the Ministry of Home Affairs.

Quote from the CRA website under “Electronic Shufflersâ€

“Enforcers is on Security, Reliable, Auditable.

In this technical standards, a shuffle is defined as an electronic utility product that has the capability to rearrange the playing cards to completely eradicate any prior pattern(s) introduced to the playing cards.â€

Now lets go back to the Bac tables.

There is an Eletronic shuffler standing next to every table. This shuffler has two compartments, so two stacks of cards, one blue and one red can be shuffled individually.

Before starting a new game, the dealer unpacked a sealed stack of cards (presumed to be preshuffled) and put it into the shuffler vacant compartment.

The stack of cards that was in the shuffler is taken out now and put on the table for a player to cut (not less than the width of a single pack of 52cards –house rule).

So the present stack of cards is the one which had been put through the same motiom in the previous game.

Now the Pit Boss or the Supervisor presses a green button (green light on) to shuffle the stack of cards inside for about 12 minutes. Also a small electronic display appears (Shuffling 416 cards –10% complete) When the display reached 100% the green light switchs off. This is to show the players that whatever preshuffled cards pack will have to be reshuffled by the shuffler next to the table to eradicate any prior pattern(s) introduced to the playing cards.

So I do believed that the CRA did their job very well.

Random cards are not prevalent.

For BTC players the only drawback at present is that paterns become less consistant and for a shorter time. Now most of the shoes can change from F2,3 to OTB4L with S40 in between.

Be wise and collect your winnings like “Mannas “ take only enough for your daily needs.

May I quote Prof. Ellis “It is not about how much you bet. It is not about how often you bet. It is about how often you bet on the right sideâ€

Regards and best of luck to all,

Grat

[NOR --additional betting Strategy]

Grat how did you came up with this Eclipse bet? very interesting, but y did you not go for F2 since the first 3 4+s appear? what made you go for F3 in a shoe?

Yes bo_da, please look at the attached graphic " Actual casino shoe -------" ,

At Play #19 -- The SAP Events count for 3's remains at 0. Therefore 3's is "least common" So F3 is the choice. Also the 3's remains LC for the whole shoe.

Also remember to follow up with how Prof. Ellis evaluate this Eclipse strategy in this forum.

Thanks for your interest.

Best of Luck to you,

Grat.

[NOR --additional betting Strategy]

Started recently, but still appearing quite often is a long straight run or several straight runs at the beginning of a Baccarat shoe (presuffled 8 decks consisting of 416 cards that came in a sealed box).

This straight runs make the SAP Event averages of 4's, becoming most common --MC. Also 2's and 3's becoming Lease Common=LC.

Now please open and look at the attached score card.

From play # 18, the 1's and 2's came in consecutively, making losses for the F3 system bets. Also the 2's event averages are increasing.

I was thinking why not place the next bet only if both OTB4L and F3 confluent on the same side as at play # 23.

I named this the "Eclipse" bet.

In NOR, we have 3 systems, OTB4L, S40, and F2 or F3.

Thinking in simple Maths, each system has a 33% chance of winning.

So this coming together of OTB4L and F3 can have a better chance of winning, up to a maximum of 66.6%.

Hope Prof. Ellis can clarify this phenomenon mathematically.

On the score card "Eclipse bet" won 9 times and lost only 4 times.

Looking at it more closely, we lost the "Eclipse bets" when the sporadic 1's start increasing on the stronger side.

At play #42, the 2's became MC and we may just play OTB4L, to win the next 5 bets continously.

And Prof. Ellis, may I quote what you said recently "See, OTB4L has math on its side".

Also a Big THANK YOU to all members in this "Family" especially Prof Ellis, Keith Smith, and the Administrator, MV Seahog.

Singaporeans are very happy because we just won our 2nd Olympic medals after 52 years.

Grat

Attachment: Actual Casino Shoe (SIN 15Jul 2012).pdf

[NOR Video Part 1 on YOUTUBE]

Re: NOR Video Part II

Hi Keith,

My Username is TWLee 12

THANKS

Best Regards

Grat

[Article: OTB4L & TB4L vs NOR]

You can view the page at http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/content.php?r=1690-OTB4L-TB4L-vs-NOR

[OTB4L & TB4L vs NOR]

Greetings to all members, especially Prof Ellis and Keith Smith,

Had been playing OTB4L since it was taught to us by Prof Ellis.

Basic OTB4L, then ADOT, ADN and finally OTB4L assisted by SAP (Events Averages).

This lattest System is the Best, and the most consistent in beating the Casino on the Baccarat Table. But as Mreteuya the "Maverick" had experienced, it still looses to Straight & ZZ runs suddenly without warning. The SAP indicator for multiple 1's is lacking sometimes, preventing betting OTR earlier. So I was thinking of getting a second Indicator to confirm and better still if it can be a "Leading Indicator".

I got the idea from Mreteuya. He uses the "Events Averages" as an indicator for the mode to bet. If 1's & 4's are greater than 2's & 3's he plays RD1.

Now I uses this same formula to Indicate to me which is stronger between OTB4L & TB4L.

Shall I call this "D" for "Disparity". When the sum of 2's & 3's are greater than 1's & 4's, then OTB4L is strong, also the ratio between the two gives us an indication of the degree of "Disparity" . This looks like it is a more leading indicator. My THANKS to Mreteuya for this.

Hope I can insert the graphic from Words to illustrate:-

29 P B AV 1 2 3 4 Disparity

31 O 6 10 8 16 18/22 (2+3)/(1+4)

32 O 7 18/23

33 O 8 8 10 8 16 18/24

34 O 9 18/25

35 O 10 10 8 16 18/26

36 O

37 O

It shows the "Disparity" indicatos increases from 18/22 (OTB4L/TB4L) to 18/26.

Very good for ZZ runs.

So TB4L is very strong.

Dear Prof Ellis,

Re: Your NOR System by comparison, which is easier, because the

OTB4L/TB4l uses only two modes to bet, (TB4L covers straight and zz runs.

May I have your advice please.

THANKS,

Grat.

15 July 2011

[OTB4L & TB4L vs NOR]

Greetings to all members, especially Prof Ellis and Keith Smith,

Had been playing OTB4L since it was taught to us by Prof Ellis.

Basic OTB4L, then ADOT, ADN and finally OTB4L assisted by SAP (Events Averages).

This lattest System is the Best, and the most consistent in beating the Casino on the Baccarat Table. But as Mreteuya the "Maverick" had experienced, it still looses to Straight & ZZ runs suddenly without warning. The SAP indicator for multiple 1's is lacking sometimes, preventing betting OTR earlier. So I was thinking of getting a second Indicator to confirm and better still if it can be a "Leading Indicator".

I got the idea from Mreteuya. He uses the "Events Averages" as an indicator for the mode to bet. If 1's & 4's are greater than 2's & 3's he plays RD1.

Now I uses this same formula to Indicate to me which is stronger between OTB4L & TB4L.

Shall I call this "D" for "Disparity". When the sum of 2's & 3's are greater than 1's & 4's, then OTB4L is strong, also the ratio between the two gives us an indication of the degree of "Disparity" . This looks like it is a more leading indicator. My THANKS to Mreteuya for this.

Hope I can insert the graphic from Words to illustrate:-

29 P B AV 1 2 3 4 Disparity

31 O 6 10 8 16 18/22 (2+3)/(1+4)

32 O 7 18/23

33 O 8 8 10 8 16 18/24

34 O 9 18/25

35 O 10 10 8 16 18/26

36 O

37 O

It shows the "Disparity" indicatos increases from 18/22 (OTB4L/TB4L) to 18/26.

Very good for ZZ runs.

So TB4L is very strong.

Dear Prof Ellis,

Re: Your NOR System by comparison, which is easier, because the

OTB4L/TB4l uses only two modes to bet, (TB4L covers straight and zz runs.

May I have your advice please.

THANKS,

Grat.

15 July 2011

[ADN Test Results]

[ATTACH]1915[/ATTACH]Test Post for Graphics

Thanks to MVSeahog, The Administrator for your HELP.

With REGARDS ,

Grat.

[ADN Test Results]

http://c:\documents and settings\joshua\my documents\casino forums(baccarat)\play examples\score card adn.pdf[/img

I would like to add to the ADN Test Results.

Play Mode : ADN (Net Bet).

Score Card of Actual table bet in a casino.

Play by Play of the actual shoe:

Hands

# 4 to 7 ----- Start with AD mode

# 8 ---- Switch to ADN mode.

# 17 ---- Lost to first 2’s

# 24 to 29 ---- Biggest lost of 6 chips because of 2112 pattern.

# 30 ---- Recovered with the highest bet of 5 chips, still on ADN mode.

# 32 to 35 ---- Lost to another 2’s in a 121 pattern.

Stop after these losses.

Win only 8 chips.

Special Notes

The same shoe if played with ADOT mode, would have won 19 chips.

(Please try it out, THANKS)

With a switch to OT mode at hand’s # 19.

The biggest lost was encounted at hand # 17 after a 2’s ( lost 2 bets straight down )

At # 18 Force to SKIP a table bet. Then continued with OT mode to WIN 19 chips.

Dear Fellow members, please comment with any suggestion to improve this ADN system will be appreciated.

Cheers and Good Luck to all.

Grat.

Sorry for the late Posting of the ScoreCard.

With help from the Administrator, MVSeahog, I hope my upload of the Score Card will be successful this time.

[ATTACH]1916[/ATTACH]

[Re: ADOT System]

Re: ADOT System - Inspired by Ellis

"To all members

Please use this system to test as many shoes as possible and post some feed back, so that we might make it even a better system.

Post your results, high score, low score, finish, highest bet amount, etc.

Thanks

NormA "

THANKS to Prof Ellis, PJ, NormA, and all members who contributed in getting this system going.

This is my first table bet using this system, it is sophisticated and yet so simple to remember and use on a Bac table inside the Casino.

As requested, I am attaching a Score card using the ADOT system.

Start betting from Play # 6. SAP value shows 3's is above average, use OTB4L.

After loosing bet on play#7, I skip and then go OTR for the next 3 bets.

On play #11 the SAP value is MC for both 3's and 4's+.

Still continue OTB4L.

On play#15 the 2nd Lost which I skipped, that was the 4th circle of a ZZ run.

So on play #16, go on OTR again until play#19, when I changed to AD mode all the way till the play#38.

Maximum bet is 3 chips. Never go into minus .

Win after (38-5=33) 33 hands is 13 chips (13x25)=$325.00cts

With a capital of 20chips, that is a 65% ROI, in only a short time.

Hope this is useful for your Library & feedback.

Cheers & Goodluck to All.

Grat

Quote" Winnings are Mannas from Heaven, take only enough for your daily needs "

[SHOE LIBRARY - Post your shoes, please]

To heike, Glad to support such a great idea!

(Mini Baccarat table) MB101 SHOE# 1 Saturday 25 Oct. 01:15 am. 6 decks shuffled by “One 2 Six The Flexible Shuffle Masterâ€â€”Star Cruises “Oasis†casino. Straits of Malacca.

Game started about 3 hours ago—Fresh Cards?

B11113322111111

B3223442

B1313122111112

B1112111252111

P254211122

Shoe #2 MB101 (same table as above, about 9 hours later) 25Oct.10:15am. More matured cards?

P1121113221131

B4111126112

P221111311412

B3311151131

B431112141

Shoe #3 Table MB212 – Sunday 26 Oct. 00:45 am.-- 6 decks shuffled by “One 2 Six The Flexible Shuffle Masterâ€â€”Star Cruises “Oasis†casino. Straits of Malacca.

P11312(B10)P2

B121132112123

P64111242

Please note: This is a very popular table with continuous shuffle for 26hours, since 10pm. 24 Oct. Friday.

Regards,

Grat