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I saw this ad on career builder for a position in Atlantic City with Shuffle Master, a maker of automatic shuffle machines. I think the first line in the companies ad explains it all. It is below. Shuffle Master, Inc. is a gaming supply company specializing in providing its casino customers with improved profitability, productivity and security, as well as popular cutting-edge gaming entertainment content, through value-add products in four distinct categories: Utility Products which includes automatic card shuffler, roulette chip sorters and intelligent table system modules, Proprietary Table Games which include live table game tournaments, Electronic Table Systems which include electronic multi-player table game platforms, and Electronic Gaming Machines which include traditional video slot machines for select markets. Shuffle Master is included in the S&P Smallcap 600 Index.

Thanks for replying. So how long did you go on playing everyday before you backed off? Do you always play that way? You started out net betting OvR then went to F-3 and then back to net betting. Correct? I really appreciate someone that has had so much success enlightening us that are just getting our feet wet. So you subscribe to the idea of betting out of a larger bankroll and going for small unit wins of just 5-10 a week?

Has anyone heard from Kiddo? Last April he posted results from playing everyday with a 50 unit daily goal. I remember he was very successful and had increased his bet size to $160 units. He had a graph showing results from Jan to April. I haven't seen a post from him since. Although if I was winning $8000 a day I wouldn't be posting here anymore either.

I do agree. I attended the seminar last year in Pa. and I know net betting from way back when I first joined the forum. But as you stated you can net bet a lot of different things. OvR, PvB etc. I actually was in AC the Saturday of the seminar and ran into Keith at Bally's. Since I went to the seminar last year I didn't think there was a need to attend another but if you are going to promote new ideas at each one then I guess it is something to consider. Since AC table minimums are in the $20-$25 range and I can play online for as little as $5, online is more convenient. Not to mention the 1 hour drive each way for me. So any improvements for online play you have I would be interested in learning and even willing to pay a little more money for. The nice thing about Bet Phoenix is that you can constantly go online to check out the shoes and see what they are doing. For us to have someone like you to be able to go online and tell us what to play would be great. You could charge for a service like these stock pickers do. You could use tweets or text and update us on good shoes and how to play them while they are in progress. Just a thought!

Ellis, I've been a member of the forum for about 5 years now and think that you and Keith have been great and very informative. When I first joined we were doing the net-bet thing and then we stopped and got into other things which have now evolved to NOR. Are you saying that you were holding out some information on net betting back then that you now want to charge for or is this something new to net betting that you haven't used before. I've often wondered if you play the same way you teach us (which is very good) or are there certain tricks that you still keep to yourself( which you have every right to do). I like to play online since I can bet lower amounts and don't have to travel but notice on BP that a shoe will start out the first 20 plays s-40 then switch to F and then switch to OTB4L all in the same shoe. Will this new net betting help us to combat this situation?

I was channel surfing today and saw a show on casino gambling. Very interesting. They were talking about a Russian Casino that got beat pretty bad by a group of Americans in BJ. They immediately installed card shuffling machines to stop the threat of getting beat bad again it was stated. What does that tell you. They went on and more or less stated that casino's use shuffle machines to produce the results they want. They had several casino experts on such as Stanford Wong. Anyone who thinks the shuffle machines produce random cards should see this show. It was on "the Green Channel".

Keith, I also can not access NOR forum. It says I do not have permission. I am 3 year lifetime member.

Here is the lastest on the guy that won over $10 million in 4 months in AC. http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/07/05/070511-news-blackjack-1-5/

Buy World Class Blackjack, New Blackjack or Zero Proximity by Ellis which are sold here. There are many professional players that use these methods with great success.

There was a story on most of the Philly news last nite about a man who has won over 15 million playing BJ in AC. The Trop reported that he has won $1.8 million from them. Here is a link. http://www.kmov.com/news/off-beat/Man-wins-millions-after-years-of-gambling-122433389.html So much for the theory by all the nit wits that they can't be beat. Maybe Dweezel wants to wait another 6 months, before he believes it can be done. Once you win $15 million whats left, just retire.

Ellis, I have been fooling around with an idea. I think that we should track losses of events rather than just losses of bets when we consider making a change. The systems are designed to win against certain events and lose to others so rather than just 2 or 3 bet losses in a row we should only consider when we lose 2 or 3 events in a row. This would mostly be used with OTB4L since sometimes you can lose a bet without losing the event.

Let me get this right ! If you have it all figured out that it is impossible to beat baccarat then what the hell do you keep coming back to this site and other bac site like Marks. Stop wasting your time unless your point is to just be a pain in the ass which is what I think your real enjoyment is. If I thought it was a waste of time playing bac I certainly wouldn't frequently continue to visit baccarat sites. We respect your opinion now just GO AWAY !

using your example. at hand #12 the SAP chart (1-2-3-4) would read 3-4-0-4. Since there were 3 ones, 2 two's, no threes and one 4 or more. at this point three would be LC and two's and fours tied for MC. at the end of hand #20 it would read 5-8-3-4. providing that the last hand completed that event.

We track events. 1's in a row (bp) two in row ( BBPP) 3 in a row (BPPPB) etc. There is a frequency of events in a typical 8 deck shoe. on average there are 18 one in a rows,9 two in a rows, 4.5 three in a rows and 2.25 four 0r more in a rows. That's why we have the 1-2-3-4 columns, to track those events. They are weighted. 1's are worth 1, two's are worth 2 etc. So if you have a score such as 9-6-3-4, one's (9) would be MC (most common) and three's (3) would be LC (least common)). We use this information to make decisions on bet placement on how the shoe is playing.

Jerseyslim, I've been following your exploits. Still having success? How are you playing ? Are you playing the same in the casino as bet phoenix ?

If anywhere it would be the Claridge. I went there once and looked for them, found the pit where they were supposed to be but only found $10 BJ.

I have a home about 40 minutes from AC. Since I retired last year i only spend about 6 months there. At the Plaza they have about 6 bacc tables and I think half are no commision. They have a dragon bet that pays 40-1. That's the bet that makes up for the commision. I think Showboat has a $15 weekday daytime $15 table. But they all go up nites and weekends except Plaza which is always $20.

I go to TRump Plaza. They always have $20 tables available. Most others only have $25 and up. The Taj only has $50 up. Some have recently gone own to $15 on daytime weekdays. The plaza has toteboards and no commission bacc. All of the shoes I have played at the plaza have done very well with OTB4L.

Ellis, Since we have established that we will be using the OR count on S40 to determine what system we will be playing (if not pre-determined) would you think that watching and counting the first 8-10 hands and then flat betting for another 8-10 hands to verify that you are playing the right system sound like a good safe way to play a table that you haven't had a chance to get a definate read on. Essentially the first column of 20 plays are used to verify your choice of systems before playing your u1d2m2 for the rest of the shoe.

Ellis, Great stuff. It's always great in this forum when you are posting a lot as you have been the last couple of days. I have been playing at Trump Plaza in AC the last two weeks with some success but had one bad day. I would start out in System 40 and move to RDH-1 when 40 faltered. When I came home and replayed my score card (several ways) I found that good old OTB4L killed all 6 shoes. The lowest score of the six was +15 with the highest +42. It is such a great system and easy to play. and all you need is to get on the ZZ runs after a predetermined number and the same with straight runs. Your always winning 1 or two bets at the start of a run by the time it gets to 4. I think OTB4L really should be a key component in 4S system.

You originally had a 33% chance to win after one cup was eliminated you have a 50% chance.

Ellis, I agree. System 40 is a great system. That being said we haven't really put a lot of time into improving it even more. Although sometimes that leads to screwing up a good system rather than improving it. Since it wins all 1's and 2's and wins either 3's or 4's, I think a conservative money management approach when we get to 3's or 4's or more will help us stay in the game and get past the rough spots and back to the parts of the shoe that we win.

At hand #45 why would a winning 2 go to a 3 and make it 6 v 3 ? Shouldn't it have been 6 v 1 ?

I was in a few AC casino's tonight and finally saw baccarat toteboards. They were in Trump Plaza and Caesars. I also was in Taj and Showboat but they did not have them yet but they are probably coming. Also the Plaza has no commission mini bac.

I can't find anything on system 40. I see there is a thread for it and a mention that a new manual will be posted (Jan 10) in the downloads section but I can't find that. Ellis ha been mentioning System 40 but I can't find anything on the system? Can anyone help?