JimmyBaccarat

iluvspotplay, and any other new players who are just beginning... Read my lips.... 'CALL KEVIN" 😲 ☺️ When I first started I had no idea as to how to play Baccarat other than the rules to the game. I called Kevin. Then being "smarter than him" 😲😲😲 being the "Mr. Know It All" I went off on my own and spent an awful lot of time reading everything on the forum, testing and getting myself more thoroughly confused. Eventually, I found myself gravitating back to 5D which is 4D plus FTS, MDB, etc...4D is the basis/basics. Everything else is on a higher level. And that is why I am saying "CALL KEVIN" and don't waste your time as he knows everything there is to know on the forum and then some and can point you in the right direction. Read the NOR manual. Sure. This is a beginning to get down the fundamentals. But, don't spend too much time there. McVince said he was not able to make NOR work for himself (and McVince is an intelligent guy). Eventually, he created VinSAP, which is a viable method for winning too. In it he uses a SAP count which over time has been modified. And that is why I recommend... "CALL KEVIN" A new person does not have to go thru what myself and others have gone through in trying figure out how to win at this game. There are no quick fixes. IT doesn't come easily as there is work that needs to be done. But, it shouldn't take you more than a year - like it did for me. Ohhhh. and did I mention..... "CAL... LOL

Congrats Kevin!!! You've accomplished something very few people have done. And... You should celebrate and dance to the music!!! 🏆

Steve, Click on the link in Kevin's post. Add it to the cart and "checkout". There is no cost. You will then be able to download it. The 12 lessons will be found after the original 5D material which you already have in your 5D Manual. Hope this helps.

Absolutely Lou !!! Well said... Might I add.... Phil Ivey learned to play poker by sitting "at the table" playing for real money and figuring it out. With SBI, you can "Sit at the table" but it does not cost you your hard earned cash/bankroll while you learn how to beat the game.

When I first started playing Baccarat 9 months ago - it made sense to "replay" shoes. SBI hadn't been created then, but, I started collecting shoes by walking around the Sands Casino and recording finished shoes to replay at home. In the Premium Forum... Oz recounts how Norm and Pappa Joe would telephone and replay shoes hand by hand over the phone. CT70 recounts how he would record the shoes in a tape recorder and replay them. kachatz suggests to buy 8 decks of cards, a shoe and to deal out the shoe. No matter which method of play is being used, the successful Premium members have one thing in common... they work at their game which includes going back over shoes that they have played. The SBI is a tool - a valuable tool - for me. How much so? Well, I've taken the time to input 1000 shoes from the Sands Casino. You don't play at the Sands? So what! There are 1000 shoes you can practice on. Dannboy has input 509. CT70 has input 277. McVince has input 204. Of course there are others too. 2820 shoes as of this writing in all from quite a few other casinos. No matter what "method" of play you are using, if you are not "replaying" your shoes or testing your ideas, well... the onus is on you. No one can "do/play" Baccarat for you. It is up to each individual to "do the work" necessary to be able to learn how to win. SBI is a tool that is waiting for you to use to develop your skill.

Welcome to the forum Phelps and don't mind him. He is just busting on me because I have a tendency to be "wordy" when I post in the Premium Forum. Me... I write one long post similiar to yours. Oz, well he writes 20 short ones! Same amount! LOL While the forum is serious when it comes to Baccarat, there is also a "comaraderie" that develops over time and you get to know the "cast of Characters." Remember, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." And since a forum, by its nature, is a discussion long distance, well, we have a tendency to poke fun at each other sometimes. However, when you have a question, thought, idea (hey, isn't thoughts and ideas the same thing ), want to discuss your play or whatever, there is no lack of help by the Premium members even if sometimes you don't like what you are reading (but, it is all done with the best intentions for you in mind). So, yes, Oz is not a troll and neither am I. But, regardless of what you think about Oz, myself or any of the other members in the Premium forum, (and this is not a sales pitch as I don't make one red cent off of what I am about to say) if for no other reason to join the forum - do so for access to the Stategic Baccarat Interface (SBI). Even if I was put off by Oz's busting my chops, I would still be a member of the forum for no other reason than to have access to the SBI. Why? Because I can input a shoe and play it back hand by hand (it does some other things too) not knowing what the next result will be. This exponentially increases my learning curve. Personally, I have input about 800 shoes. I am not going to remember them all from a half year ago. Therefore, when I select a shoe to play, it is like playing it for the first time. If you are honest with yourself, not knowing is a huge advantage because we learn from making mistakes and not from hindsight. "Oh, I was going to bet on Player." No, you bet on banker and missed that hand. Why? you also don't get to see how a situation develops before it happens. But if you want, you also can see the whole shoe if you want when doing research. That is just a couple of the reasons why being able to use SBI is a good idea. And if you don't have shoes for yourself, well use mine from the Sands Casino, use the over 500 that have been input by DannyBoy, CT70 and others in 5Dimes. There are others who have input shoes for many other casinos as well. SBI is relatively new to Beat the Casino and is still being tweaked and populated as members input shoes that are not RNG shoes, computer generated shoes or shoes input from a book. And if you can't find or don't like what is there, input your own like I did and still do. I have said it before, even if I don't post or read any other posts on the forum, I would still have a membership just so I could have access to SBI. I literally use it almost everyday. I know you don't know me from Adam, but, I have a similiar background. I don't gamble. I invest. I started to play poker a few years after the Moneymaker boom and was profitable but did not see how it would take me to where I wanted to go in life. The "gods" introduced me to Baccarat and I started to take it seriously around September of last year. I was chronicalling my journey in the Premium forum. Now here is the thing.... I started from not even knowing how to play Baccarat. I managed to work my way up to 3 untis/shoe from what I learned from the quidance of others at no further cost to me other than my own work. But, even at 3 units, which might not seem like much, but at a $25 mimumum table, that is $75 a shoe which takes about an hour and a half and it is scalable!!!. Can yo say $50, $100, etc... Sure as hell beats playing $1/2 or even $2/5, I don't need anywhere near the bankroll as I need for poker and it is a steady rate of return. Ok. Ok. Stop!!! Yes, I am old. And us old people like like Oz and myself have nothing better to do than play Baccarat and write on forums. Actually, I wrote all of this for Oz's benefit so he gets confused! Best of luck to you Phelps! Jim

Little? Who you calling "little"!!! At 275# I make most goalies (for you soccer fans) look like waterboys! LOL And if you are not careful, I just might swing by Australia when I go to Singapore later this year and bring this "little" frame of mine to whomp on your (excuse my French!) at the Baccarat table from all of the studying I have been doing learning how to "Read the Shoe". Then afterwards, I'll buy you a cold brew! LOL Can't be serving two masters - either positng on the forum or studying/learning/practicing how to RTS. Which one is going to make me more money to buy you that cold brew? Ohhhh........... And by the way........... You didn't think I entered those 800 shoes into the Strategic Baccarat Interface just for your benefit! No sireee! It is an invaluable tool to learning how to Read the Shoe. (Thanks Keith for creating it!) It is worth the price of the Premium membership even if I do nothing else with/on the forum!

Keith, I agree with what CT is saying here about auto-populating the casino name and date when entering shoes with the last one entered. At first I was entering only 8-10 shoes at a time and didn't mind selecting them each time. Now I am entering them 30 or 40 at a time. Having them auto-populate would make entering easier. Thanks, Jim

I see I am not the only one who never sleeps because we have Baccarat on the Brain! "That's enough homework for one night...pretty simple eh?...How hard can it be?" I guess that is the price one must pay...

Thank You very much for that post Oz. You are teaching someone (Me) to fish and not just giving me fish to feed me for one day. That is what I want and need - learning how to fish for myself. I had my suspicions about 100 shoes being a good representative sample size. I had settled on 300 but was still not sure. I am glad to see you use 500 shoes. Unfortunately, I was not able to have access to Stats for Profit. But, no matter, I now have 500 shoes in the Strategic Baccarat Interface for my use (Yipee!!! and I'll be adding more!) and for anyone else contemplating getting a membership, they know it is there for them to use too. (Actually over 1400 in total so far in the Interface.) Once again, greatly appreciated

Oz, If I may ask.... Since your Master Class is coming up on the 25th, I know you probably have an agenda, but, if you would be so kind... As I try to learn how to read a shoe, I use the Strategic Baccarat Interface by using the "Play By Hand" feature. Each hand, even though I have only three choices - 1) Banker, 2) Player or 3) No Bet - I am always thinking of a reason as to why i would make the best choice. If you could, would you spend a moment or two going over how you use the Interface to help you make your best decisions? CT70 had said to practice by going through a shoe, then rework the shoe making notes and then sometime later come back to the shoe to see if you would do anything different and why. I realize "experience" plays a large part. The more experience, the more your subconscious has seen to be able to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Oftentimes, i have no idea what I am looking for. Or maybe, to put it another way, I don't know how to use it as a research tool so that I can "find my own way" when it comes to reading the shoe. It would be much appreciated. By the way, when Kevin announced your doing a Master Class, I immediately registered for it. I am looking forward to it as I can imagine many people are. Even though Kevin likes to think that the best Baccarat player has yet to be found, (and no offense to Kevin), but, the best player is already right here on the BTC forum and if he wants to keep searching...well, then he will never find him because he is already here right under his nose!

This is to let everyone know that I have finally,... finally, got caught up inputting all of my shoes int the Strategic Baccarat Interface (SBI). As of this writing, there are over 600 "live" shoes for the Sands Casino. I see that Dannyboy and CT70 have been inputting shoes on a regular basis. (That is not to say that others have not contributed.) I also see that there is over 300 shoes for 5Dimes and that there are almost 1500 shoes in total in the SBI. For everyone so they have some idea as to why I think the SBI is so important.... 4 or 5 months ago, I looked at Baccarat as a way for both myself and my wife could play. Not knowing anything, even the rules of the game... intuitively it made sense to practice. The closest casinos to me are Moheghan Sun - Poconos (which has two tables) and Mt. Airy (which has 4 tables). As I sat there recording shoes, I thought to myself, "this is going to be a grind, but, you have got to do what you have got to do." Kevin Achatz had suggested buying 8 decks and dealing them out, which I started to do. I then decided to make a trip to the Sands Casino in Bethlehem (twice as far away as the other two casinos) and it was like divine providence had stepped it. An electronic stadium with 4 tables going, around 100 tables and more importantly - Asians galore!!! Asians love Baccarat!!! So much so, the casino buses them in from New York. Even at a slow period like after they bus the people back to New York, you can easily find 30 or more tables still going and the Stadium never stops. So I started recording shoes - easily 15 or 20 a trip. I figured out that I could walk around and look for shoes that had played 70 or more hands, stop and record what I saw until the end of the shoe. So, my bank of shoes started to grow. Then Kevin Smith (the Administrator at BTC) came out with the SBI. Again... divine providence. I have learned that at times when something is saying "Hey stupid!!!" I had better listen! I would be able to input all of my shoes and be able to replay them back as if I was at the casino. I had already a set of poker chips and could act as a dealer. I think it was Oz who said that Pappa Joe and Norm would talk on the phone for hours going through shoes hand by hand. Now, I sit with my wife and we both look at the computer screen (toteboard), play the shoes hand by hand using chips. It saves a lot of time over dealing cards. Recording shoes is easy and it is so much of a time saver when it comes to testing out ideas. When the older pros say "hard work" I can appreciate what they mean. While "work" is still required, it is no longer "hard" work. Access to the SBI alone is worth the price. I just renewed my Quarterly Premium Membership. I view it as the price to pay for having access to the SBI. It is as simple as that. It is that powerful of a tool. Would I think about cancelling my membership? In one word - NO!!! It is a tool I use everyday. Enough said. JimmyBaccarat P.S. This post was unsolicited.I pay to have access and do not get one red cent or bitcoin due to anyone having access to SBI either.

Look for the thread "Advanced Exploits" by Pappa Joe in the Public Forum. IN this thread, there are many scorecards with Pappa Joe making a little bit larger bet on the 2LNRs to be able to see as examples of what a 2LNR looks like

I second that response McVince!

Oh, and just one more last thing... Tony Robbins and other self help gurus have said it. To be a winner, model excellence. Find someone who is doing what you want to do, find out what they are doing to get those results, and then just do what they are doing. It sounds simple enough, but, it is not so easy because you have not developed the "skills" that they have developed. Once you do, then, you will begin to achieve the results that they are getting. Dear Woody... Does Rex play Baccarat? Is he a winner at it? He plays the financial markets. If you want to be like Rex, why bother with Baccarat? Instead, focus on beatnigthe financial markets and emulating Rex. Just because Rex can beat the financial markets does not mean he can win at Baccarat. Until Rex can show you he is a proven winner at Baccarat, then he is not a good model of excellence. I don't know anything about the winning player's investing habits here at BTC. However, I would be leery of what they say until they can show me they are consistent winners in financial arena. Conversely, Oz, Way2Fast, CT70, McVince, Pando, Wolfat, Avion, (as the more active members on the forum) and the list goes on with other winning members (who are not as active). These are the guys you should be "modelling" and paying attention to as they are where most of us want to be. That is why we are here on BTC. Comparing Rex and toting his math prowess is a bit out of place here if you ask me. Sure, he may be a "math wizard, genius, guru, etc..." but that does not mean he can win at Baccarat because of it. This is something you don't know for now and can't be sure of unless you absolutely know he is profitable at Baccarat. Baccarat is not the financial markets. Yes, math is math, but, that does not mean just because someone uses math in the financial markets it translates over into Baccarat.That is like saying that a winning Nascar driver can win at Formula One racing just because the Nascar driver uses math to help him win. So, in closing Woody... model the best. If you want to win at Baccarat, I would think twice about wasting any time and energy thinking about Rex. Instead, spend that time and energy focusing on the excellence here at BTC.

Oz.... Are you using math? Risk factor... % per shoe... I knew it. You just don't want anyone to think you are math guy!!! You are just too "shy" to show your fancy computations. LOL... Just messin' with ya! In studying (not just reading) your past posts, all I can say is "there are wisdom in your words" and most of us should be paying heed to them. I know I do It helps me separate the truth from the Bull###t! And no... I don't do Negative Progressions and I am learning to not do mechanical systems even though they were promoted a long time ago here on BTC. Instead, I am trying to learn how to use them as a tool in my personal Baccarat evolution. I just hope I am getting closer to "Learning How to Read the Damn Shoe!"

LOL... Yes. My wife is Chinese and believe me, the thought crossed my mind! Thanks for the contact info. I might end up needing it! LOL Even though she says she is doesn't like to gamble, I keep telling her that "You can only fight the way you practice." - Miyamota Mushashi

With RESPECT to everyone..... (and yes, this is going to be a long post from me... ) Obviously, we are all entitled to how and what we think. It is up to each and everyone of use to make the decision to "change our thinking". That is how we progress and make our lives better than what it is. (Sort of like the analogy of the daughter asking the mother why she cut the ends of the ham off before baking it and the mother said that is how her mother did it so she always did it and was teaching her daughter to cut off the ends. The daughter then asked her grandmother why she cut off the ends and the grandmother said that is what she had learned to do from her mother and had taught her daughter to do. So the girl went to her great-grandmother and asked her why she cut the ends of the ham off before baking it and the great-grandmother replied "I cut off the ends of the ham so that ham would fit in the pot my dear.") I, by the way, am no exception to this and am mostly trying to improve my life. One of my motto's that I try to live by is "Either keep it the same or make it better." (As an example, it irritates me when I go to a water cooler and find that the water bottle is empty because the person before me did "keep it the same" by making sure they changed the water bottle when they emptied it. Therefore, for I could keep it the same and walk away or make it better and change the bottle.) The stock market was around since the beginning of the country. (As an aside - people would go to where the "wall" was in order to trade their goods and services. That is wall's location is Wall St. in New York and was named after it.) People tried to "figure out" the movement of the markets and speculate to make a profit. For two centuries, only a few developed the skills to "read the price action" (sounds familiar?) to be profitable at speculating in the markets. A gazillion systems were created touting to be the latest and greatest, infallible, 99.9% winners! The uneducated would "just believe" and follow the systems and get slaughtered because they had not put in the effort of testing the systems to see if they actually worked. They think they are entitled to "knowing" how to win just by being told and will pay large sums of money for this "information". They get slaughtered. This continues to happen even today. So, a relatively small percentage of people had learned how to beat the markets. Then the mathematicians with their Ph.D.s and with their computer programming skills came along. The use of the computer allowed the ability to be able to "test" far beyond the actual experience due to the speed provided. They created programs that take advantage of the "biases" in the price action and scalp tiny amounts over and over at such a rapid pace that it all adds up very quickly. Soon, this became must have for all of the commercials and they are able to now manipulate the markets taking advantage of the small percentage that they scalp as they do so. So what does this have to do with Baccarat? Math is said to be the "language of the universe" as far as we human beings know it. Everything we assume is governed by some mathematical law. Baccarat is no different. Mathematicians have looked at Baccarat - yes. But, I would argue that they have not studied it to the extent possible that they have done with the stock market. I don't believe that those mathematicians who have studied, have the resources available and if they do, they may have found that it is simply not worth the effort. Mathematicians looking at the stock market, for the most part, don't make their money investing in the markets because they are risk adverse. Otherwise, they would be making a killing. Instead, they are paid millions to figure it out so that the banks could make their billions and now trillions of dollars. The millions they pay mathematician each year is a drop in the bucket to the banks. And from a mathematician's point of view, they might be able to make the same amount, but, why take the risk when they can make the same with no risk. So, in this day and age when we send people to the moon, it seems far fetched that we as humans cannot "figure out" how to win at Baccarat. It is obvious that some people do, just like there were those who could read the price action in the markets. I beg to differ as to whether mathematicians have really/truly studied the game of Baccarat. But, that is only my point of view and my opinion. (I know, I know... Opinions are like..A.....!) While I am no mathematician ( I am an accountant by profession), I do understand some math having had Calculus as part of my education, but, that does not make me some kind of expert. Think about this.... as I have presented this line of thinking in a post before.... The expected value of an outcome is the percentage that the outcome would win times the amount won less the percentage that the outcome would lose time the amount lost. Simple right? LOL EV - (%W x $W) - (%L x $L) where... EV = Expected Value %W = Percentage of the number of times won $W = Amount in dollars won %L = Percentage of the number of times lost $L = Amount of the dollars lost The two main variables are the percentage of winning/losing and the dollar amount won/lost. This will give you the expected value of the event. To begin with, lets make it easy.... We assume that Baccarat is a 50/50% game over an unlimited number of events based upon the rules of the game. So, we win 50% of the time and lose 50% of the time. Let us assume that we are going to flat-bet 1 unit on each of these events. However, those in the back of the room may be thinking, that the bet on banker only pays out 95% due to the 5% commission. So, to make things easy and look at it from the perspective of being the most conservative, lets assume that we always bet on banker and only win $0.95 for every dollar wagered. The would be 0.95 of the one unit wagered. So our variables are: 50% Win 50% Loss 0.95 Unit Win 1 Unit Lost Plug these into the EV formula and calculate it: EV = (50%W x 0.95) - (50%L x 1) EV = 0.475 - 0.500 EV = -0.275 A losing proposition flat betting 1 unit. This means that for every outcome, it is "expected" to lose 0.275 of a unit. Sure, the person may win this hand and the next and the next. But, over time, the "negative" number means this is how much the person can expect to lose. Very much like the slot machine that takes 17% of every dollar put into it. Sometimes the person will win, but, over time, they can expect to lose 17 cents for every dollar put into the machine. But... That is not the whole story. Due to the nature of the shuffling of the cards, where hand shuffled or pre-shuffled in a box, the shoe is fixed (as CT70 said). It is predetermined. Since the shoe is not an unlimited number of hands to be able to bear out the 50/50% of outcomes dictated by the rules of the game, there are only 70-80 hands dealt which creates a bias. The same line of thinking is show in a coin toss. There are only two outcomes - heads and tails - which means heads should come up half the time or 50% and tails should come up half the time or 50%. But, we all know that it doesn't happen that way. Over the flipping of the coin 10 times or 20 or even 70 or 80 times, heads and tails will have only a minute probability of coming up exactly half of the time. The other percentages reflects a "bias" during the coin toss. The same thing happens in Baccarat due to the shuffling arrangement of the cards fixed in the shoe. There is a "bias" (and often times more than one bias) in the shoe. Just look at any tote board that shows the number of hands (or the percentage) that have been played for banker and player. If it is not 50/50, then there is a bias. Again, this is just my humble opinion... The winning players here on BTC have done what the few of the people who had learned how to read the price action in the markets. They have seen the myriad of systems. Instead of just blindly just following them thinking they were going to make a killing, they have learned how to "read" the shoe each in their own way. They put in the time. They did the work. They have the ability to "see" (for lack of a better word) the biases in a shoe and are able to take advantage of it. While they may be flat betting, they are also able to make the correct selection a higher percentage of the time. This is where it is not just about one variable, but, two. Let's take an approximate guess. Let's say instead of 50/50, the "pros" are able to read the bias in the shoe, make the flat bet of 1 unit and are able to win 53% of the time (only 3% more than guessing or jsut always betting on one side) which means they will lose 47% of the time. Plugging the numbers into the formula: EV = (53%W x 0.95) - (47%L - 1) EV = 0.5035 - 0.47 EV = 0.0335 Since the number is positive, that means they will expect to win 0.0335 units for every event over time. Of course, this is pretty close to the minimum percentage of wins needed to be profitable. To give some perspective on this, I went to the "Advance SAP Exploits" thread that is on the Public Forum and looked at some of the scorecards posted by Pappa Joe. I did this because it was easily accessible for me and because he had a tendency to write the number of wins/losses on the cards. Just as a quick sample, he would win between 57% and 63% regularly as shown on the scorecards. Even though he was using a progression, let's look at it from a flat bet perspective using the low end of 57% (I'll leave it up to the reader to do the work for the 63%): EV = (57%W x 0.95) - (43%L - 1) EV = 0.5244 - 0.43 EV = 0.0944 Again a positive number means the expected value return for each event would be 0.0944. A positive number means you are making money. Do what you are doing. Rinse and repeat and you will be profitable. That is math. Now let's look at negative progressions. To keep it simple, let's look at the Martingale which is doubling your wager after every loss and keeping your wager the same after every win. Now, we know using the Martingale would be a winning system, if... IF, there was no limit to the amount that could be wagered AND you have the funds to be able to do it (think Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg). However, to stop this form happening, the casinos have put a limit as to how much could be bet thus forcing the bettor into a losing situation as they would not be able to double up in order to win the one unit bet. So, for this "experiment" let's say we make the progression 1 - 2 - 4 - 8 - 16. That means if using the progression, doubling with each loss and losing five times in a row, the bettor would have lost 32 units. (1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 = 32 units) Of course the Martingale is looking to win 1 unit. So let's look at the 50/50 proposition running the numbers through the EV formula. EV - (50%W x 1) - (50%L x 32) EV = 0.50 - 16 EV = -15.50 Disastrous!!! Just like a slot machine! The bettor is losing and expected 15.50 units. So, now the question becomes "Is there a point where the negative progression would become profitable?" After a bit of trial and error (which you did not need to see) I came up with a 97% win rate. This means losing 3% of the time. Let's plug the figures into the formula: EV = (97%W x 1) - (3%L x 32) EV = 0.97 - 0.96 EV = 0.01 This is a positive figure. That means that if the bettor can win 97% if the time and limits the negative progression of doubling up to 5 losses in a row before starting over with a 1 unit bet, this is a profitable situation over time. A negative progression can work. However.... Is it practical? Maybe. Maybe not. Here is Pappa Joe's percentages (using the high end of 63%): EV = (63%W x 1) - (37%L - 32) EV = 0.63 - 11.84 EV = -11.21 Clearly..... a losing proposition. While I don't know what some of the other pros have as a winning percentage, it is unlikely they have a 97% consistent win percentage over time and therefore, if they used a negative progression such as this, they would not be profitable. What they have done is to learn how to Follow The Shoe or read the shoe, each in their own way, and have been able to exploit the biases in the shoes by being able to win a high enough percentage of time to make flat betting profitable for them. That is the bottom line.... Profitable!!! Now, some mathematician might be able to come along and write a computer program that might be able to win 97% of the time to make a negative progression such as this profitable. But, computers are not allowed. And in the financial markets, computers have to be used to be able to scalp like they do. This is not going to happen when playing Baccarat nor as human beings can we be able to so it in our heads? Oz likes to relay the story about his betting 7 units and Norm saying he was insane! And for good reason. Last night I was practicing with my wife. Her "real" bankroll allows her to bet $5 units at the electronic stadium at the Sands Casino in Bethlehem, PA. In practicing, her first bet was $75! Of course we had a few heated words..$75 as an initial bet would have been fine from my perspective if.... IF, she had a large enough bankroll, had a high enough win percentage and psychologically could handle the money being wagered. So her 15 unit initial wager was not reasonable. Using a the 5 step negative progression, she would be wagering 15 - 30 - 60 - 120 - 240 units. At $25 a unit that is a $6000 bet. 98% of us would go into "brain paralysis" making that kind of wager after having just lost $5,625 of our bankroll. Now... On the other side.... Rex at Renaissance Technologies and the financial markets.... two different animals. Baccarat is a dog. Financial Markets is a cheetah. Hmmmm.... So, yes, math in the financial markets is valid due to technology. But, before technology, all there was was a tape machine spitting out the current price of the commodity. They had learned how to read the price action looking for biases to speculate on and they learned to flat bet - not doubling up after a loss. This is similar to baccarat today where we have only the tote board for this particular shoe and we are looking to take advantage of the deviation form the norm or in other words, exploiting the biases. What is not similar to baccarat today is having high speed computers by or side at the table to take advantage of the "math". So, my conclusion is that everyone is right and everyone is wrong to some degree (which by the way, does not make me right or wrong.... Like how I hedged myself there! LOL). Negative progressions do work depending upon the parameters. However, its usage is impractical sitting at the table unless the bettor can take advantage of the biases an extremely high percentage of the time or has been able to "crack" the math. I don't think has truly happened just because some mathematician has looked at it, written a book (for personal gain) and is perceived as the end all be all expert from a mathematical point of view. Hell, the math used for the financial markets did not come about until well after Thorp had become the math expert. To give one last insight.... Woody says Rex is profitable 70% year after year in the financial markets. Possible, although only an extremely small percentage of money management funds come close to that. So, in terms of Baccarat, what would it take to be 70% profitable as an expected value? (Again, saving your reading the trial and error) From a flat betting perspective, the win percentage would have to be around 87%: EV = (87%W x .95) - (13%L x 1) EV = 0.8265 - 0.13 EV = 0.6965 Doable, yes. Winning 87% of the time on a long term basis....? (I am not that good to be able to speculate/comment on this so I will have to leave it up to your own inclinations.) Now, using a negative progression with the same 87% win percentage: EV = (87%W x .95) - (13%L x 32) EV = 0.8265 - 4.16 EV = -3.3335 Again, a negative number means a losing proposition in the long run. This goes to show that using a negative progression, doubling up 5 losing bets in a row before reverting back to a one unit bet and winning 87% of the time, a negative progression comes no where close to a 70% positive expectation. But, that is in terms of Baccarat and not the financial markets. These are two different animals that do the same thing...run. My three hour opinion... P.S. DISCLAIMER: I could be talking out my .... in all of this and/or completely wrong in some respects, but, I am open to debate and a willingness to learn. As I said in the beginning, all of us have our own mindset. It is our ability to critically think about information and learn from it that makes us better that we were a moment ago - me included.

So true, so true... Personally, I am not a professional. I am new to this game as in "3 months" new from first learning the rules of the game.This is what I do know: Miyamoto Mushashi, the legendary Japanese Samurai said "You can only fight the way you practice." If you are not using "live" shoes like those in the Strategic Baccarat Interface, well... you are not practicing using the next best thing to live shoes, which is where you do the "real" fighting. What's that? (You did not know I can read your mind, did you?) Did I hear you think "1000 FREE shoes"? You get what you pay for.... 1000 FREE RGN shoes... You will pay for FREE when your bankroll dwindles AND.... still not be any closer to knowing how to win.

Happy Thanksgiving to all! Really grateful to have every one as part of my day! Jim And... I heard/saw or read this awhile ago... Something to think about when you are wolfing down that tasty turkey dinner... There were these two cows in a field eating their grass and one of the cows was reading a article in a magazine. The first cow said to the second cow. "Hey, look at this. This article is talking about these two lions in Africa only eat meat and how they are healthy, fit and strong. Boy, I'd sure like to stay fit, healthy and strong. Maybe we should start eating meat instead of this grass. What do you think?" The second cow says, "Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Let's do it!" So, the two cows started eating meat instead of grass. A little while later both cows died. Of course this was big news and it made the front page of the newspaper. When it did, the two lions were sitting down to dinner eating their meat and the one lion was reading the newspaper and saw the story of how the two cows had died from eating meat. The one lion said to the other lion, "Man, I don't want to die from eating meat like those two cows. Maybe we should stop eating meat and start eating grass instead." The other lion said, "I don't want to die either. I think you are right. We had better start eating grass." So, the two lions started eating grass and a little while later the two lions died. Hmmmmm............ The end.

Funny guy!

I would take the time and expense to fly there to see, meet and rub elbows with the "Best of the Best"!

The Strategic Baccarat Interface sure does beat dealing from an 8-deck shoe on your kitchen table. The hand-by-hand feature alone is worth becoming a member let alone all of the other benefits mentioned in the vid. Sure, I am a member, but, I would not even think about cancelling it. The guys here are great, helpful and encouraging. Where else can I have access to real shoes played in real casinos right from my home (not some computer generated shoes in a book) and the database gets bigger as more of the members add real shoes they have played. No way I am going to be able to play them all when I am practicing!!! Jim

Much better said than me McVince! Much more "diplomatic" ? As a new person to BTC, it became aggravating that I was wasting my time on posts/threads created by JMoney when I was trying to get the "lay of the land" so to speak and wanted to learn something. It was apparent that all he wants is attention and accolades and wasn't contributing anything of value, st least for me. I have no problems with anyone sharing their comments, feedback, critiques, criticisms, ideas, thoughts, etc., and as Wolfat said "I am open minded" as long as it is constructive. Unfortunately, his posts are not even entertaining for me, only aggravating and I certainly don't want that in my life. Enough said. Enough wasting my valuable time especially on someone who posts in the public forum. Last post.

JMoney, I wish you would stop wasting my time with your posts. From reading past posts, it is obvious YOU say You have a winning system. Good for you. It is also obvious that you don't want to share what you do. You only want to drive traffic to your Facebook page. I for one will not go there. Either contribute something useful or don't post. So please stop posting this trivial nonsense. Otherwise, I just may spend the time making it so you wish I was not wasting your time in the long run. Or............... I will suggest that the members here will stop replying and ignore your posts so that just like a little kid that does not get any attention to their tantrums, over time you will get angry and then figure out for yourself you will stop posting because no one will pay attention to you ever.