waminc

Donald, I live on the coast. Been playing bac since the mid nineties and was a lifetime member of btc since 2008(a status that no longer exists). Scott T. also lives in Ocean Springs, was a btc member, and plays bacarat. Send me a message and maybe all three of us can get together and give you some help. Bill

Hi Kevin, Enjoyed reading your 50 in 50 approach. Reminded me of a player I first played with frequently in the late 90's /early 2000's. Charles was a very successful player. His approach was very interesting and still successful as late as early this year (ran into him during one of my very infrequent opportunies to play this year). His approach was... Start with 100 units of $5 goal is to win 100 units. bets were 1 or 2 units, with an occasional 3 or 4 units if he had a solid confidence of a WIN, never more than 2 at these levels. Max loss for a shoe was 20 units. Max loss for a level was 40 units. If loss happened in first level he would go home and restart after analyzing what was wrong: if at a higher level he would go back to the previous level. His progression of levels was 5, 15, 50, 150, 500. Completion netted $72K. STARTING with $500!!! He went out 5-6 times a year successfully! Varied the casinos he played at always staying at a bet level that would not call attention to him....5 & 15 at the Grand casinos on the Coast, 50 & 150 at the Beau Rivage or New Orleans, and 500 in New Orleans or Atlantic City. He also hit casinos on the rivers, Lake Charles and sometimes Tunica. How did he select his bets? Basically using what I think is called pattern recognition (not a "paid" member so I'm not up on terminology). Track what the shoe is doing and make his bet accordingly. He did and still bets every hand. He's successful. Bill

I posted in the Members forum my response to all the furor I've caused. No, I did not post Norm's FTS guide, but some of the philosophy he, I, PJ, Andrea, OZ, etc have learned and adapted to our successful play. Bottom line, YOU have to work, study, practice and then go out and stumble a bit as you develop your own style of play (and modify it as the casinos change their game). YOU will be the benefit of how much effort YOU put into this game. The casinos present this because they make money from it, not for you to have fun(unless you become a winner). Bill

Actually been busy with med stuff. Got to be tough to get old, right OZ. I'm trying to figure out how to paste Norm's guide from 8/23/13. Different from when I played with him in Vegas when he lived out there. Forgot what year...2010,11,12? Note, MOTF(F=FOLLOW THE SHOE) is a GUIDE, not a set of rules. We were very successful in Biloxi in 2013. Bill

I played with Norm the last year of his life, 2 out of 3 months he would come to Biloxi. He convinced me that getting out of the neg prog was the safest and best way to win. We used to talk nearly every day when he was home, both about bac and also his determination to beat the US roulette wheel. Kostas was looking into it and having good success with it overseas. I'll post Norm's FTS on the members forum when I get back later today. That's basically what I use now with very good success.

Norm's Favorite....."I'd rather miss a winning bet than make a losing bet".

Great picture Joe. Not sure if that"s the elevators at the Beau or in Vegas.

Hi folks. First post since the split last year. Stayed away from both forums looking in on occassion to see where they were going. Had a total knee replacement and a stroke during the surgery last year so I've been OOC most of this last year. Glad to see Andrea, PJ, and OZ as well as some of the "old hands" actively involved as well as Kevin, another Gulf Coast player until he moved out to sin city. I see a lot of mention of Norm in many of the posts. First played with Norm when he lived in Vegas. Lost track of him until PJ told me he had moved back to FL. Made contact with him and during his last year he would come up to the Gulf Coast 2 months out of 3, going out to vegas the third month. Played lots of bacarat with him. He also was working on roulette with Kostas and myself during this time. Roulette was his first love and he did very well before the casinos added the double zero. Norm was determined to beat it. Never did, but Kostas seemed to do very well with the European single zero. Enough rambling, one of the other sayings that Norm followed most of the time was..." I would rather miss making a winning bet than make a losing bet". All ties in with when in doubt, wait it out. He used to look at me with a "why did you bet that?, you don't bet because you think it looks like it's going to....WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT." Got a lot of reading to do, but glad to see an active group. Bill

Count me in, Ellis. I think a complete manual of successful bac systems( I prefer to call them approaches) would be invaluable. I hardly ever post anymore but check the forum out regularly to see what new ideas are being discussed. I still remember our meeting in Tunica, 2008 I believe, where you, PJ, Zebra, and I tried out SKOR in a casino for the first time. You and PJ won 20 out of 20 shoes (both of you "cheated and took advantage of a couple of TBL exploits. Zebra won 18, making some adjustments on the fly which became known as SKORz, and I won 16 following the established rules for SKOR. We met in Tunica a couple of months later and barely broke even, finding many weaknesses in SKOR. Our breaks in the VIP lounge and the opportunity to listen to your analyses of Bac in general and your insight has remained with me. Unfortunately I've never been able to take advantage of any of your "seminars, internet talks, etc." since. I think the manual you want to put together would be invaluable, and probably for many years to come. Bill

Love to see/play with you, Kevin. Been awhile. I'll be in NY this coming weekend, 5/15-19. No other trips at this time. Ball games slowing down from 10-12/week to All-Star only. Grandkids have been wearing Barb and I out! But we love it. Time to get back to bac... Bill

AD, send me a PM if you decide to come over. Always enjoy the opportunity to play/talk with BTC players. Bill

Johnny, My friend "charles" played a follow the shoe approach. The only thing he actually tracked was, what we call, the chop or zz. He used the same count of the zz as we use. That is...BBPP would be a 2. BBPBB a 3. He bet 1 or 2 units based on the "predictability of the shoe", not a set prog either neg or positive. He limited bets of 3 or 4 units to 2 bets max a shoe. Stop loss was between 10-20 units. I never saw him lose 20 units. I had probably a year of experience with baccarat at the time (mid 90's) and runs were still the norm. I had trouble following the shoe as he did due to, what I suspect, was inexperience. So I got away from it. Bill

I first played with someone who progressed his units as he won, must be almost 20 years ago. He started with 40 units at $5/unit. Goal was 100 unit win. He then went to $15 units, using 40 units for this level. He now had his original $200 plus the $500, total $700. 4o units at $15 is $600. He's already ahead if he loses. After 100 units he went to $50, then $150, and finally $500 units. When he completed the run, he went back home with $70K+. Usually did this within 2 weeks. Took a trip 5-6 times a year and made a very good living. Still at it. Saw him a few months ago back here on the coast starting a new run. Note, if he lost the 40 units at whatever level he was at, it was back to the beginning using $200 bankroll. By the way, he usually made his 100 units in 8-10 shoes. $5 tables are a thing of the past, but starting with a $15 or $25 initial unit, you can still make a run up the ladder. If you want to go for a serious run, you have to travel around as you go up...playing at casinos where you won't be considered a big bettor and draw attention. Norm was beginning to wonder if he might be pushing the limit since he was bringing $30-60K home after each 3 day trip to Biloxi. Anyways, some thoughts on growing a bankroll, and then having fun doing it over and over again.Bill