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Andrea:

I'm with you man. I think MVS is one smart cookie. We can maybe ride this wave all the way to the beach. What you think about MVP for a name... it would seem to fit.

P.S. Guys I screwed up the last hour and still have not got Jack done with the cutie over at BOC. I still think my heart belongs to Carolina but think it is her day off. Laura on days is smoking too. The Carolina over Bhp way is smokin to but she must be a break dealer or something....hardly ever hangs around a table long enough to find out the story. Always falling out of here clothes too which is nice also. I swear I got to put post-it notes up over the dealer window to get any baccarat in at all.

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All, Well, today was the day. I figured it was now or never and I believe I've run enough live and test shoes and should feel reasonably comfortable to start play on a Green table. Was feeling pr

Posted Images

Can someone please tell what the yellow stars are on the main thread page ??

Thanks

Norm

Edited by Norm A

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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Andrea:

I'm with you man. I think MVS is one smart cookie. We can maybe ride this wave all the way to the beach. What you think about MVP for a name... it would seem to fit.

P.S. Guys I screwed up the last hour and still have not got Jack done with the cutie over at BOC. I still think my heart belongs to Carolina but think it is her day off. Laura on days is smoking too. The Carolina over Bhp way is smokin to but she must be a break dealer or something....hardly ever hangs around a table long enough to find out the story. Always falling out of here clothes too which is nice also. I swear I got to put post-it notes up over the dealer window to get any baccarat in at all.

Hi Tom,

tx for your support!

I'm doing some experiment and if successful I'll share rules in detail.

About the name MVP is good for me; in my personal scorecard I call it O/T+. hahaha!

ciao

andrea

bacclover

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I came across a very interesting shoe today live in the casino. If you could play this shoe out and post it here, I will be greatly appreciated.

P411112222112

B1131131112122

B3113112121111

B112112121

I still manged to come out ahead even when I use your modified OTB4L version together with Tom's KS concept. But all the losing pattern that you don't want to see do come up in this shoe and it's quite a lot too. Please play the way you would play, I just want to ensure I did it right. Plus this will be a very good sample shoe for other members too.

Thanks in advance,

Baccplay

I ran it out this morning, even before my coffee (bad mistake for sure) and it finished up +2.

Hi +5 Low -5 Finish +2.

Your posted 3rd column only had 19 hands in it so I just grabbed the next one in line to continue on.

This was a purely mechanical, 1,2,1 with a 3 stop loss to a winning circle. No SAP count to monitor due to the previously mentioned lack of coffee at this early hour.

You did notice that the second column just killed that shoe. Luckily the 3 stop thing got you out of the brutal 311 series so you could get most of that back at the bottom of column 2.

The next logical question is "Why didn't the 311 at the top of third column do the same thing?" The answer would be that is was, in reality, a 511 streak that actually started at the bottom of column 2.

MVS

Edited by MVSeahog
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Hi MVS,

Sorry I didn't realize there's only 19 hands in the 3rd column. Anyway, here is the shoe again.

P411112222112

B1131131112122

B31113112121111

B112112121

And yes in the 2nd column, I did skip most of the bets until near the bottom. Will you be able to post this shoe for us to see?

Thanks,

Baccplay

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Bacc:

Looks like they still got the shuffle machine set to puree’. I’m guessing it is machine shuffle right ? I never seen such weird shoes that you get there. Looks like they are afraid to deal a couple decent straight runs back-to-back. Next time you go there take a big heavy cast iron skillet with you. Try hammering the machine until the gears begin to grind. If that doesn’t work chase the pit boss guy around with it for awhile.

Tom :bigeyes2:

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OK, here goes my best shot at this. I really didn't have anything to edit the scan with that looked like I knew what I was doing so I transposed the original scorecard to one of our own and will make the comment here for a running dialog of sorts.

The shoe starts off with a B111 so I start betting the ZZ with a 1,2,1,2 wager. Stay on that until it loses.

Hand 14 is the loser so we go back to the original OTB4L as we really don't know what we've got yet, just a bunch of one's!!

Hand 22 loses the 2 bet but is also a run of 3 Banks so you'll jump on the run basically with RD1 or TB4L, whichever you want to call it.

At this point in the shoe the only significant events are the 2's so far. That first ZZ run is not really a good indicator so you can discount most of it. At least that's what my brain was thinking about that time.

Hand 28 loses and ends the run of Banks. No 3's and only one "real" 1 so I'm back to OTB4L.

Hand 28, pencil broke! Fell back to the crappy casino pen. (Note, bring backup mechanical pencil)

Hand 30 loses but starts another run with a P3. Jump on the run until it ends.

Hand 36 ends the run, back to OTB4L and update the SAP count. Other than the streaks, there's only some 2's to deal with so it's OTB4L for now again.

Hand 44 has us losing our first "three in a row". 2,1,2 lost so we now Skip until a winning circle appears.

Hand 46 has the winning circle and we continue on with OTB4L at 1 unit.

Hand 47 loses AND is the third Bank so we jump back on the Bank streak, we hope.

Hand 51 loses and ends the streak, back to OTB4L and immediately lose the three in a row.

Hand 54 is marked "played wrong" but that's incorrect. It was played correctly because if you'll look at hands 51,52,53 you'll see that they are the start of a ZZ run so the bet at 54 is correct.

Hand 57 WAS played incorrectly though. With the winning hand at 55, you go back on OTB4L. I cost myself 2 units there with that mistake.

Hand 64 has us losing still another three in a row so with Skip until a winning circle.

Hand 66 is another incorrect OTB4L bet. I think my brain slipped into RD1 mode or something.

Hand 67 wins the circle and you continue on with OTB4L to finish the shoe.

Although this shoe had three losing runs of three for -13 units, it still produced a profit. Granted most of them will NOT be this large but the lack of three's and three HUGE streaks really put this one over the top for me.

You can see from the casino card that the paperwork isn't overwhelming and if you understand the notation of SAP, it kind of falls into place once you get settled in.

Hope this helps someone with the way I'm playing at this point in time.

Now let's hope I can get these three graphics to post up!!

MVS

Hi MVS

I playing around with this shoe and I notice something intertesting,

When I used flat betting I ended with +11 ( same as you did )

Flat betting with the corections I ended with +7

Norm

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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Hi MVS

I playing around with this shoe and I notice something intertesting,

When I used flat betting I ended with +11 ( same as you did )

Flat betting with the corections I ended with +7

Norm

Norm,

I'm thinking that the advantage to betting something like 1,2,1,2 is that when the long runs (and Z's) show up, you collect that extra unit every other bet and it gives you the opportunity to press up with the wins a little quicker. As I'd previously mentioned, getting the extra unit on the LW situations is nice and helps me to get out of the shoe that much quicker.

Also, I'm thinking that shoe was not typical mainly because it won 40 hands and lost only 21!! We should always be so lucky, eh?

Ooops, I was looking at another sheet, not that +11 one. Sorry.

MVS

Edited by MVSeahog
Won/loss added and the later corrected!
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Would I be correct in saying that if you hit the Z's the wrong way, you could lose 2 and only win 1 ????

You say that when you have 3 losing bets you stop playing till a paper win, but if your 3 losing bets are 1,1,1 would you still stop or go on the Z run ??

Thanks

I am still trying to learn.

Norm

Edited by Norm A

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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Norm, you would be correct except that MVS jumps on the ZZs. I'm fine with everything MVS is doing esp in light of no toteboards. But I see no point in the 1212 betting vs our standard M2 style. M2 puts you on the 1212 when you are following a run. At all other times MVS's 2 bet has no more advantage than his 1 bet. As PJ found when he tried this its too easy to get out of sequence with the shoe and keep winning the 1 while losing the 2. But when singleside betting at 2 Hi, I'm not sure that there is any difference???

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Hey Guys,

Just woke up like an hour ago and plugged into the Bph channel. I played what I think is MVS's MVP/BG. I only read through the instruction last night and fell asleep. I don't know if I got lucky but got +30 in first shoe and still have not washed the cat poo poo out of my eyes yet. I don't think it is to eartly to say the SKOR/ks rewrite is on indefinate suspension. Now Maybe I can get back to doing what God intended for me to do....Haress the Pit and flirt with the cuties. Thank God, can't be to soon in my book.

Oh the MVP part I explained earlier ( I like it ) the /BG part is for Bloody Genius !!! I was thinking BM for the AM edition ( Bloody Mary ) for night play /VT version for vodka /tonic...

I going back to the carnage now. I sure hope Viviana and Daza and Carolina are on day shift today......SMOKIN' :439:

P.S. I'm not quittin till I use up all the Smiley guys :approve:

Edited by TomM
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OK Guys

Over on Bph channel and Viviana is mixing up the big "Eat at Joes" cards. That last shoe had more 3 ops and three's in it. May actually have to put on thinking cap once in a while. Think I may of messed up a transition or two but what the hay. Anyway I gave back a couple units but I like I said probably screwed up. I was just dieing to slip into System Zero but thought I would hang tuff through the three's and 3 ops crap. Next time I put on the brake and hit them over ther head with Sys/0.

I managed to scan the entire System 0 last night and it looks OK to me. I am just awaiting for John to send me instuctions on what to do with it. I hear the cards coming out over there so don't to keep the ladies waiting. Back in a flash with periodic updates.

Edited by TomM
i's and l's still look the same to me
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Well Daza was dealing that one. I can never concentrate when shes dealing. Very mysterious that one. I think she may have a closet full of Crystals and Tarot cards. Hard to figure. Anyway I got back late started about play #18 was thinking System 0 because of bunch of threes off top but ones very high got started in top of second. It was so choppy I forgot what I was doing and fell into playing 112 on the chop. 27 singles in this one....one 5R and good for 15 units. Have to wake up and remember to bet after tie and read MVS's instructions until I get it down. Keep falling back into KS or 112 superchop betting and the like. Time for a break unless Viviana is back on the nickel table. They sure grow them good down there in Costa Rica... something in the water there? Maybe just cabin fever. Got to get down there some day and see what it feels like to be cussed out in Spanish.

Edited by TomM
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Hey Guys'

Quick head over to the Bhp channel and check out Viviana. She is just waking up and smokin up the joint. I got to put a post-it note over the dealer chair when she is dealing...not fair. There are two Vivianas there is one is wearing the black outfit and the other the purple job today. Ok I'm on my way to San Jose ...DA..Da DADA..TA DA..............

Welll I don't know who shuffled that one but pretty good little mini streaker. I wonder if I will ever see a 20 in a row in this joint. It would seem they would have to screw up once in a while when Carolina does the chuncky shuffle when her nails are drying after lunch. Might be Carolinas day off, don't see her falling out off her clothes today. Bummer for daddy duke. I betcha tall smokin hot Viviana makes more in tokes a week than the president of Costa Rica. She damn well deserves every Peso too.

Oh well check out one more shoe than reread MVS's instuction one more time. Enough from the peanut gallery for a spell. :banana:

Edited by TomM
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As PJ found when he tried this its too easy to get out of sequence with the shoe and keep winning the 1 while losing the 2. But when singleside betting at 2 Hi, I'm not sure that there is any difference???

That's very true. I have gotten out of sequence with it winning the 1 and losing the 2 bet, but it self corrects once the Z starts. It's the RD1 pattern that gets whacked on the single side. But then the RD1 is used only on the streaks and not really on the Z's.

Did that make sense to you guys?

MVS

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Dom,

You'll play OTB4L until the previously mentioned ZZ comes up of 4 according to BTC notation, but it looks like this:

B242111.... The "111" signals a switch to betting the Z until it loses.

The same thing happens with a streak of 3. Jump on the streak until it loses and then back to OTB4L.

I stop betting after three losses. Losing a 1,2,1 or 2,1,2 bet stops play until a winning circle shows up playing whatever mode you were in. The betting then resumes at 1.

MVS

Hi MVS

Sorry I an still a little confused,

when you have 3 losses you stop betting.

when you have "111`" you switch to betting the Z run

Question: what if the "111" are 3 losses, Witch takes presadent stop or switch and why

???

I see that in your sample shoe in post 13 on hands 61,62,63 that you stop betting after "111" that were 3 losses, would you always make this move in this case.

Thanks

Norm

Edited by Norm A

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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Hi MVS

Sorry I an still a little confused,

Question: what if the "111" are 3 losses, Witch takes presadent stop or switch and why???

I see that in your sample shoe in post 13 on hands 61,62,63 that you stop betting after "111" that were 3 losses, would you always make this move in this case.

Thanks

Norm

Norm,

You're making this more difficult that it needs to be.

You've asked "which takes precedent" after losing a 111 series?

They both are equal. You stop betting and change to the ZZ pattern.

If you lose three in a row (or how ever many you finally decide is YOUR OWN stopping point) you stop betting but continue on paper betting in whatever mode you are supposed to be in.

If you lose a B111 series, you then paper bet on the ZZ run until it either wins or loses.

When you start Hand 66, you're currently sitting on a P2111 so your next paper bet is B. It loses. You go back to OTB4L.

You're now looking at P2112 at hand 67 so the next PAPER wager is on P.

It wins. You're now still in OTB4L mode and start back in with real money on Hand 68 at 1 on Player.

Don't read more into the basic rules than need be.

1. Start OTB4L.

2. Change after three losses in a row.

3. Paper bet until a win.

4. Change back on the next loss.

MVS

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I want to change my vote to MVS =Most Viable system or Most Valuable system....or something like that. Saves on ink too ! OK got to have another cup, wait for brainstorm. Tom

Most Viable Selection? Naw... still brain dead..more coffee

Edited by TomM
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I want to change my vote to MVS =Most Viable system or Most Valuable system....or something like that. Saves on ink too ! OK got to have another cup, wait for brainstorm. Tom

Most Viable Selection? Naw... still brain dead..more coffee

I support MVS+, to differentiate the system from the author!

hahahahahhaah

andrea

PS: I'm playing it for real at Black Orchid, next week I'll share my results for the first 10 shoes.

bacclover

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Yeah Andrea

I was kind of worried about that too..Maybe MVS+ or something like that. I definately withdraw My earlier MVP/BM (Most Valuable Progression/Bloody Mary) because after a second look it is not a good idea to end any system name with /BM It has certain connotations in USA anyway ! LOL

Good luck over BOC way. I did real good the first few times there and then my alter-ego showed up and I forgot baccarat and started hounding the girls. When Cesar is dealing I always ask him for a twenty in a row off the top. I think he gets the signal from the director/pitboss to strip shuffle until the cows come home. I think I got to cool it over there in case they let USA players in I may be wearing out my welcome. Does bring up interesting situations of VIRTUAL CARD CONTROL.

Usually by the time I get there it is like 4:00 AM local time and Cesar is already thinking of going home and pounding down a couple but still manages to get out the "Congradulations to all the lucky weiners" after every hand.....I bet he wakes up at night with that line. Real nice freindly crew there for the most part.

Edited by TomM
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Norm:

Now you're talking. I actually never had a drink in a casino after 1994 (no foolin') damn cards just start looking to good after a couple belts. Much cheaper to leave the casino if you start to spin out of control. In Tahoe I would just hop a cab head over to the local watering hole...open 24/7 in Nevada ! Either that or head home where the bar never closed. At some point I started taking my magic markers to the table and color code and correct my cards between shuffles. That way it didn't cut into after hour activities. I would get some weird looks at the table but WTF.

I remember one night I was playing Hurrahs in Tahoe with one of my short-lived partners and I was charting 3UC that makes some very weird up-as -you- win bets. As long as you are winning your bets just keep on growing but automatically trips out if it hits bump in the road and has a make up prog. Very clever deal this ladder betting angle but sometimes in the wee hours your brain seizes up. We got into a good shoe and I had my partner start pushing my bets out there so I could keep my head buried in my card figuring out the next bet and so on and the pit boss says to me…You have to place your own bets, SIR. So OK this joker is messing with my head so I am trying to figure out the next freaking bet and I have a brain fart and for the life of me I cannot figure out what the hell 32 nickels adds up too. Fortunately the dealer was on the ball and figured out my bet and gave me a chance to regroup. Easier to just play chip denominations that end in zero when ladder betting.

The problem now arises when playing online at home. Where do you draw the line between casino and watering hole. They roll up the sidewalks at 2:00 am around here so local watering hole is usually out of bounds playing grave. Guess just adapt… play days hit the bar for happy hour or move to more civilized area.

One thing I've learned on cross-country treks is stock your cooler up with cold brewski before hitting Texas state line as there are like three freaking counties in a row that are dry... probably 200 miles of dry. So you do the math.. 1 beer every 10 miles or so, it all adds up. Could cost you a six pack just changing out a flat. Remember boy scout motto and BE PREPARED.

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Norm,

You're making this more difficult that it needs to be.

You've asked "which takes precedent" after losing a 111 series?

They both are equal. You stop betting and change to the ZZ pattern.

If you lose three in a row (or how ever many you finally decide is YOUR OWN stopping point) you stop betting but continue on paper betting in whatever mode you are supposed to be in.

If you lose a B111 series, you then paper bet on the ZZ run until it either wins or loses.

When you start Hand 66, you're currently sitting on a P2111 so your next paper bet is B. It loses. You go back to OTB4L.

You're now looking at P2112 at hand 67 so the next PAPER wager is on P.

It wins. You're now still in OTB4L mode and start back in with real money on Hand 68 at 1 on Player.

Don't read more into the basic rules than need be.

1. Start OTB4L.

2. Change after three losses in a row.

3. Paper bet until a win.

4. Change back on the next loss.

MVS

Hi MVS

Thanks for your help

First off my orig. question was wrong, I asked

"I see that in your sample shoe in post 13 on hands 61,62,63 that you stop betting after "111" that were 3 losses, would you always make this move in this case."

It should have been on hands 51,52,53.

The botton line is that I now understand what you are doing and how it works.

But I don't understand why you bet on P in hand 63, were you not still OTB4L ???

Thanks

Norm

PS: never mind I got it !!!! I looked at it for the 20th time an saw the 3 in a row to put you on the run. I think I missed it the other 19 times because it went to the next col.

Some day I will get the hang of this, I have been on this Forum abut 6 wk but did not play live at the casino yet, but getting close.

Edited by Norm A

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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PS: never mind I got it !!!! I looked at it for the 20th time an saw the 3 in a row to put you on the run. I think I missed it the other 19 times because it went to the next col.

Yep, done that myself. The change at the column catches me more often than I would like to admit.

MVS

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