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Hi MVS,

I've had some computer problems and have been off BTC for almost a week. I've got all that stuff fixed thanks to Keith. (He reset my password).

What's new with your MVS-3 system? Any more casino results? Is it still holding up. I'm getting good results so far.

PJ

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All, Well, today was the day. I figured it was now or never and I believe I've run enough live and test shoes and should feel reasonably comfortable to start play on a Green table. Was feeling pr

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Hi Guys,

as promised here's my report about system MVS+ (I decide unilaterally to call it this way).

10 shoes played sticking to stated rules mechanically.

+4 +5 -8 +5 +8

+5 +4 +7 -8 +8

I played with a target of +5 units, exiting at the end of a winning run that brings me over +5.

I confirm, as per MVS results, the 80% in winning shoes.

Just a little trick: after the 2nd losing -8 I played the last (+8) shoe at a higher value unit: mission accomplished!

However, even if +3 units per shoe it's not so astonishing, the advantage of being 100% mech. it's a thing that I appreciate a lot - a real stressless system!

For the next shoes I'll try to squeeze more units per shoe, I'll keep you updated.

ciao

andrea

bacclover

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Andrea,

Nice going. I thought this was a winner as soon as I saw it. I think MVS+ is good. Could stand for lots of things like Most Versatile System or Most Viable System or... I'm runing out of gas must get some eats.

Edited by TomM
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MensaMadness

Hi Everyone

I was tinkering today and programming *more* options into the "monolith" and realized I could have tested this system ages ago using the base system in combination with a single loss switch system...

Anyhow, to cut a long story short, I found the following the best for MVS+ using my "Find Best" button:

1) The start favours an RD1 immediate start. I tested waiting from 3 to 10 plays using various counts and with fallbacks of either TB4L/OTB4L/RD1

2) After the first loss after the shoe start using RD1 and after switching to OTB4L, I found switching to TB4L after three losses and switching back to OTB4L after 1 loss the best.

3) A stop loss of 14 works the best with no stop win. You can use lower stop losses but you lose in the long run

4) Not using a paper win option is better

5) Use a B1U1D2M2X6 progression, where X6 means that maximum bet you make is 6 units

Using the above resulted in a shoe average of 2.8 units for 600 odd test shoes.

I have attached a pdf showing the results for the first 100 odd shoes. The pink bits indicate the switch and the blue bits indicate OTR.

If everyone can maybe look at this PDF and "mull" over the shoes for a while, we may be able to better the shoe win rate. I have all sorts of bells and whistles for testing and switching already programmed so let's get the average units way up there if we can. Basically, that's what I do - test a system, spend countless hours reviewing the shoes, come up with ideas, program another option then press the "Find Best" button :)

Cheers

Ezza

MVS+.pdf

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Hi MVSeahog,

What is your result if you flat bet? Are you getting same result as you bet 1, 2, 1? Can you share with us your % win rate?

Thanks,

Baccplay

I haven't tried it flat betting as I'm currently using the 1,2,3 Skip plan but an update from tonight has me finally losing a shoe with this method. It went 21 shoes, all live hands but only 5 of them from inside a real casino with the rest being online live dealers and a half dozen "hand dealt" 8 deck shoes. It was one of the hand dealt shoes that finally got me for a -10. It was bound to happen, of course. A phenomenal run of 131's came up 3 times and when the fourth one showed up early in the second column, I threw in the towel and called it a night. The shoe eventually finished out -9 but it got uglier on the way.

With that said, the initial run of 21 and 2 isn't too shabby.

I've got a live casino run scheduled for Friday so we'll see how it goes then.

MVS

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I like the name!

Now what this system needs is it's own MVS+ thread with the manual and a couple of examples.

What do you think MVS? TomM?

PJ,

I'm for it. I say we keep MVS locked in his office and just slide bunches of Seminole casino score cards under the door occasionaly. Maybe let him out twice a week for live play testing down gator way !

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PJ,

I'm for it. I say we keep MVS locked in his office and just slide bunches of Seminole casino score cards under the door occasionaly. Maybe let him out twice a week for live play testing down gator way !

Tom,

Well, that's just about what I did. The wife was out doing her civic duty (paymaster at the bingo hall for charity) and I sequestered myself in the computer room, a dozen sharpened pencils and a bright light on the desk. Several hours later, with blisters on my fingers and a running count posted to a spreadsheet to keep track of all kinds of things, I finished running 100 shoes.

All 100 were live dealt, mostly from Dublin, Seminole, and a few from BOC. No RNG shoes.

The standard rules were to play these as I play:

The wagers were 1,2,3 Skip to a circle. Start the shoe by waiting for the first three hands and then start in running either OTB4L or TBL as indicated by the start. Try to get ahead early and bail out if getting killed. (Well, DUH). Generally more than one losing "3 in a row" per column would have me seriously thinking about leaving the shoe and figuring how to get to at least +5. The stop loss was "in the vicinity" of -10 to -12, depending on how I felt about the shoe as it ran. Sometimes you just have to throw one more unit out to convince yourself to EXIT NOW!

Many shoes had me up nicely in column two only to find a crash dive that had me exit in column three at +5 or +6 to preserve a win. If I could keep bumping up the plateau level by 5, I would keep going. Some shoes hit in the 15's and 20's with falling stop wins at the half-decade in column three or four.

The bottom line numbers follow:

100 shoes. 74 winning shoes, 26 losing. 74% win rate.

65% of the shoes went +5 in the first column. None hit the stop loss in the first column.

Final unit count was +695 which is just under 7 units per shoe.

I'll need to take a break and then I run the same 100 shoes with the TB4L+ idea to compare notes. Just have to figure out how we'll bet it for the comparison.

MVS

Edited by MVSeahog
Shoe start note.
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Hi MVS

First thanks for the info.

I am so glad that after 5 or 6 months of doing lots of hard work you are doing so well.

I hope it stays that way ( the doing well part)

To get the final count did you use a stop win, if so what was it ?

Did you play some shoes to the end and were some 6 decks and some 8 decks?

What do you mean by falling stop wins at the half-decade in column three or four.

Thanks

Norm

Edited by Norm A

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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I'll need to take a break and then I run the same 100 shoes with the TB4L+ idea to compare notes. Just have to figure out how we'll bet it for the comparison. MVS

Hi Andy, from my experience with TBL+ I suggest this kind of rules:

1) Optional (but I do it in my live play): wait for a paper + before starting table betting

2) First 3 hands: like standard rules

3) TBL is our base system

4) change after 2 losses in a row but wait for a paper + (on OTBL mode) before resuming play

*consider shoe's history for that 3rd bet*

5) back to TBL after 2 losses in a row (on OTBL mode)

Let me know if you agree with this.

ciao

andrea

bacclover

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Andrea, it seems like your above rules are same as standard OTB4L rules except your are awaiting 2 losses in both modes instead of 1 loss in TB4L mode?? Also you're awaiting a paper win in the new mode before resuming. Right?

Questions: Since you are playing both modes exactly the same way, what difference does it make which mode you start? Why not let the shoe tell you???

Also, when you are awaiting a paper win in the new mode to resume what if the other mode wins. Why not restart in whichever mode wins the paper win? That way we are playing more to the favoratism of the shoe.

Comment: I think these are good rules IF we have no idea yet of what the table is favoring TB4L or OTB4L. But nearly all tables are favoring one or the other.

The standard rules assume you know which mode the table is favoring. The standard rules are weighted toward the stronger mode. If it turns out you are wrong you can always switch which mode you are favoring. ???

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One other detail not addressed in either Andrea's rules or the standard rules: Whet if you note that one of your modes in never winning more than say 2 or 3 bets in a row, whichever it is. Isn't that another strong switch signal that currently BOTH methods are ignoring? All runs end sometime.

I'm not trying to be a party pooper, just looking for OPTIMUM rules.

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Hi Ellis, I understand your point of view but we're doing exactly what you're saying yet.

I explain it better between your questions.

Andrea, it seems like your above rules are same as standard OTB4L rules except your are awaiting 2 losses in both modes instead of 1 loss in TB4L mode?? Also you're awaiting a paper win in the new mode before resuming. Right? YES,

BUT AS MVS WANTS TO DO A COMPARED TEST BETWEEN THEM CHANGING THE BASE SYSTEM, MORE OR LESS THEY HAVE TO BE COMPARABLE.

Questions: Since you are playing both modes exactly the same way, what difference does it make which mode you start? Why not let the shoe tell you???

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DOING LOOKING AT THE FIRST 3 DECISIONS:

PPP/BBB = TBL

PBP/BPB = TBL

PBB/BPP/PBB/BPP = OTBL

Also, when you are awaiting a paper win in the new mode to resume what if the other mode wins. Why not restart in whichever mode wins the paper win? That way we are playing more to the favoratism of the shoe.

THAT'S WHAT I SAID (MAYBE BAD EXPLAINED) IN RULE #4. IN OTHER WORDS: IF I WIN THE PAPER BET IN OTBL MODE I CONTINUE WITH OTBL, IF I LOSE THAT BET (OTBL) I STICK WITH TBL.

Comment: I think these are good rules IF we have no idea yet of what the table is favoring TB4L or OTB4L. But nearly all tables are favoring one or the other.

REMEMBER THAT SOME OF US MUST PLAY WITH NO TOTE BOARD.

The standard rules assume you know which mode the table is favoring. The standard rules are weighted toward the stronger mode. If it turns out you are wrong you can always switch which mode you are favoring. ???

think these are good rules IF we have no idea yet of what the table is favoring TB4L or OTB4L. But nearly all tables are favoring one or the other.

REMEMBER THAT SOME OF US MUST PLAY WITH NO TOTE BOARD.

The standard rules assume you know which mode the table is favoring. The standard rules are weighted toward the stronger mode. If it turns out you are wrong you can always switch which mode you are favoring. ???

THIS QUESTION ISN'T TOTALLY CLEAR FOR ME, HOWEVER THE STOP BETTING AFTER 2/3 LOSSES IN A ROW IS AN INDICATOR THAT'S SOMETHING WRONG SO IT'S POSSIBLE TO RECONSIDER THE STRATEGY.

I hope that these are the correct answers, anyway MVS can easily correct me.

ciao

andrea

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One other detail not addressed in either Andrea's rules or the standard rules: Whet if you note that one of your modes in never winning more than say 2 or 3 bets in a row, whichever it is. Isn't that another strong switch signal that currently BOTH methods are ignoring? All runs end sometime.

I'm not trying to be a party pooper, just looking for OPTIMUM rules.

This is a good question but I can answer for myself only:

in my play I need to stick to a set of fixed rules, I'm not able to well playing without them; I really make some mistakes and damages, more than playing the wrong system. From previous testing I now its highs and lows and I mostly know what's expecting me. Sooner or later all this kind of "no-pattern" sections ends and this good set of rules allows to sail this kind of problems, with patience you're usually rewarded.

ciao

andrea

bacclover

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MensaMadness

Hi Ellis

How many previous plays would you need to look at for this?

Cheers

Ezza

One other detail not addressed in either Andrea's rules or the standard rules: Whet if you note that one of your modes in never winning more than say 2 or 3 bets in a row, whichever it is. Isn't that another strong switch signal that currently BOTH methods are ignoring? All runs end sometime.

I'm not trying to be a party pooper, just looking for OPTIMUM rules.

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Ezza, I think its more of a table thing than a shoe thing. For instance you might note that a table or a shoe color at a table is more favorable to one mode than the other.

One mode might usually be winning several plays in a row while the weak mode is usually only winning two plays in a row. Therefore 2 wins in a row in the weak mode is an obvious switch signal.

If loses in a row is a good switch signal insn't wins in a row just as good?

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Hi MVS

First thanks for the info.

I am so glad that after 5 or 6 months of doing lots of hard work you are doing so well.

I hope it stays that way ( the doing well part)

To get the final count did you use a stop win, if so what was it ?

Did you play some shoes to the end and were some 6 decks and some 8 decks?

What do you mean by falling stop wins at the half-decade in column three or four.

Thanks

Norm

Norm,

There was no "stop win" as such. If it was winning, it kept playing until the finish of the shoe. With that said, if the entire shoe was a bitter stuggle to hold a +2 or +3 and I hit a +6 at the middle of the last column, I would generally exit at that point with the win.

Yes, some were 6 deck (generally the live, online dealers, and the casino shoes were 8 deck)

Falling stop wins at the half-decade? That means I was above 20 or 25 and started to hit some losses. I would exit the shoe if a +25 dropped to +20 or a +20 fell to +15. A half decade stop (5, 10, 15, 20) as opposed to a full decade stop (10,20,30,40, etc). If you were at 35, quit when it fell to 30.

MVS

Edited by MVSeahog
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Norm, you are becoming immpressibly observant! Base your cash mgt. on how well you are doing in the shoe at hand. Easy shoes deserve more room for maneuverability. Difficult shoes you are looking for a good place to get out and switch tables. We don't challenge. We are constantly looking for the easiest game in town.

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Hi Guys,

as promised here's my report about system MVS+ (I decide unilaterally to call it this way).

10 shoes played sticking to stated rules mechanically.

+4 +5 -8 +5 +8

+5 +4 +7 -8 +8

I played with a target of +5 units, exiting at the end of a winning run that brings me over +5.

I confirm, as per MVS results, the 80% in winning shoes.

Just a little trick: after the 2nd losing -8 I played the last (+8) shoe at a higher value unit: mission accomplished!

However, even if +3 units per shoe it's not so astonishing, the advantage of being 100% mech. it's a thing that I appreciate a lot - a real stressless system!

For the next shoes I'll try to squeeze more units per shoe, I'll keep you updated.

ciao

andrea

Still finished to play another session and completed another 10 shoes at Black Orchid:

+6 +8 +4 +5 +4

+6 -5 +5 +6 +5

100% mechanically!

ciao

andrea

bacclover

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Andrea, or MVS,

One question comes up.

Do we junp on straight runs and zigzag runs the same? I mean are we counting zigzag runs correctly.

It plays like normal, but when it runs into a ZZ pattern, it jumps on it until it runs out. The same for a run/streak of 3.

Are we talking about a zigzag pattern of 3 counting the end of a straight run as the first zigzag so BBPB would be a zigzag run of 3, (a single 1 is a zpgzag pattern of 3), or are we talking about 3 1's in a rows?

I know a ZZ run counted correctly starts where the straight run ends, but I just wanted to be sure we are doing it like you do. For our testing we need to all do ZZs the same way.

PJ

Edited by ECD
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Andrea, or MVS,

One question comes up.

Do we junp on straight runs and zigzag runs the same? I mean are we counting zigzag runs correctly.

Are we talking about a zigzag pattern of 3 counting the end of a straight run as the first zigzag so BBPB would be a zigzag run of 3, (a single 1 is a zpgzag pattern of 3), or are we talking about 3 1 in a rows?

For our testing we need to all do ZZs the same way.PJ

I count 3 opposites = 2 1s confirmed or

2 repeats = 3 in a row not confirmed

I track them separately and play as per shoe's history (stick to the last). I mean that the last time the OTR bet won I bet it again, if the previous event lost I bet OTBL for the 3rd bet.

ciao

andrea

bacclover

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Thanks Andrea,

That's what I suspected. I was testing using 1 confirmed single as a zigzag run of three and jumping on that run. This was costing me units in most cases, and screwing up my play. If we all do it like you suggest, our testing will be more uniform and with more accurate results.

I think we might need to rewrite the rules and clarify that point. Like "jump on the zigzag run after three opposites and jump on the straight run after a three in a row.

MVS, could you possibly do that. Then we could create a thread just for this system.

Thanks,

PJ

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