rd1 RD1 | N Discussion and Rules ECD Group February 22, 2010

[ECD]

Don't get overly worried about PJ, he ALWAYS wins. According to other forums that's supposed to be impossible. Ha

You guys are doing an excellent job perfecting RD1n. The fact that we are net betting does not, in itself, make RD1n anything more than a 50/50 system. However, as soon as you begin discerning the weak prog from the strong prog and as soon as you start reacting to sporadic 1's you are making the system conform to the shoe at hand. THAT is where your advantage comes from and THAT is what causes you to win more than half your shoes. NEVER lose sight of what is causing your advantage. Never play without an advantage!

[MVSeahog]

My shoes for RD1N on message 92 are incorrect. Many times I was not playing the sporadic 1's correctly. I can find mistakes but playing it is more difficult. Will replay those shoes.

RES

Res,

Thanks. For a minute there I thought I was losing it! I looked at hand 13 in that example and wondered what I was missing about RD1??

Hey, in the heat of the battle, things like that happen. I've gone over my cards later at night and asked myself more than once, "why did I play that way???"

Anyway, at least I know I'm not off in left field when I look at your posted shoe.

MVS

[MVSeahog]

All,

I just wanted to confirm that we are currently testing either U1D2M1 out to 5

or

U1D2M1 out to 3 and NOT restarting the weak side after a WW or WLW.

Is that correct as of this posting?

MVS

[TomM]

Don't get overly worried about PJ, he ALWAYS wins. According to other forums that's supposed to be impossible. Ha

You guys are doing an excellent job perfecting RD1n. The fact that we are net betting does not, in itself, make RD1n anything more than a 50/50 system. However, as soon as you begin discerning the weak prog from the strong prog and as soon as you start reacting to sporadic 1's you are making the system conform to the shoe at hand. THAT is where your advantage comes from and THAT is what causes you to win more than half your shoes. NEVER lose sight of what is causing your advantage. Never play without an advantage!

Not worried about PJ at all. He'll bring something to bear on them no matter what. That Harrahs Vegas shoe of res' that PJ replayed with RD1/n 2HI was not an easy shoe. I glanced at that thing yesterday and played System zero on it and it hit somewhere in the middle 20's before hitting the lone long opposite run at the end of the shoe. I think system zero played straight through with the 7 units 2,3 all in prog,ends about 17 or 18,if I did it in my head OK. I don't think too many systems could handle that type of shoe that well. mONGo inpressed. Matter of fact I think all of the shoes that res submitted from Harrahs look about the same with one 6 or more spoiler run for Sys/0. I wonder if Harrarhs has a patent on that shoe type because they were hitting that an awful lot in Tahoe in the hand shuffled game. In the 90's that is. Maybe they ripped a page out of Harveys hand shuffled nightmare. I think Harrahs goobled up Haverys in a feeding frenzy if I heard right. Anyway that is one of the reasons I would usually head over to Ceasars back then.

Point being if System /0 liked that shoe it is usually a good indicator that it's going to a tough beat for most players. It would really solve a big problem for me if RD1/n can handle most Zero type shoes that well. I'm still goofing with M&M upgrades right now so I haven't had a chance to practice RD1/n yet. Looks good so far.

Edited March 1, 2010 by TomM

[wolfat]

shoe #3 only has a low of -4 with the 2hi rules? I was playing u1d2m2, maybe i'm playing the whole rd1/n wrong? Can i do the play on a piece of paper, scan and email to you please Andrea?

Thank you!

Regards,

kill

Today I'm away on a business trip, I'll do it tomorrow.

ciao

andrea

[res]

Here are 2 shoes I did from LV recently and doing the RD1N 2 hi. Both shoes I had poor resutls and want to see if I am doing them correctly.

SHOE 1 - HIGH +1 LOW -7 ENDED -5

B126122321

B1111151111312

P1125223

SHOE 2 HIGH +1 LOW -20 ENDED -19 HAND 17 -8 WOULD OF BEEN OUT

P1113122324

B2111341331

P141114

One question I have is If you are in hibernation you get a WW lose the 3 then a W again would you bet 3 again WW Bet lose W do you bet again or wait for another WW or WLW?

[killthehouse]

Here are 2 shoes I did from LV recently and doing the RD1N 2 hi. Both shoes I had poor resutls and want to see if I am doing them correctly.

SHOE 1 - HIGH +1 LOW -7 ENDED -5

B126122321

B1111151111312

P1125223

SHOE 2 HIGH +1 LOW -20 ENDED -19 HAND 17 -8 WOULD OF BEEN OUT

P1113122324

B2111341331

P141114

One question I have is If you are in hibernation you get a WW lose the 3 then a W again would you bet 3 again WW Bet lose W do you bet again or wait for another WW or WLW?

Hi res could you explain your last statement clearer? Also are you using the 2hi or u1d2m2? Which bet progression exactly? Thanks.

Regards,

kill

[res]

I am using 2 hi. When you hibernate and then there is a WW you bet a 3 and lose then the next hand is a W do you bet a 3 again or do you wait for a W.

Example WW bet 3 lose net hand a W that is a WLW would you bet a 3 again?

[nizm0racer]

Res, you wait for another WW or WLW if you're weak side lost it's 3 bet. Personally through much testing I do not like the 2-hi version unless you can somehow help out the sporadic 1 problem

[cheng6991]

PJ is winning 5 out of 5 shoes so far.

[killthehouse]

I am using 2 hi. When you hibernate and then there is a WW you bet a 3 and lose then the next hand is a W do you bet a 3 again or do you wait for a W.

Example WW bet 3 lose net hand a W that is a WLW would you bet a 3 again?

res i will wait for another w on the weak side. Under the rules, it state that once it goes into hibernation it waits for another 2 wins, so the previous win was nulled.

Hope i'm correct on this one.

Regards,

kill

[Mreteuya]

PJ is winning 5 out of 5 shoes so far.

Playing which way though?

[wolfat]

Hi all,

here are att.d 3 shoes requested: #3-4 of killthehouse and another tough one Lenny emld me.

They're all played 2hi with the rules stated in post #87. U1d2 lovers can replay them and compare performances.

[wolfat]

I'm sorry but I can't post them better than this.

The dotted prog is the RD1 one, the other is Anti.

andrea

[ECD]

Pj called last night before his nights play. He was still 5 out of 5 playing RD1n.

He's playing U1D2 and has averaged 12.5 units per shoe with a highest bet to

date of 4 units. I think he said his worst position to date was -4.

This includes one worst shoe where he only made one or 2 units. So the other

4 averaged pretty high. Going over the bad shoe with him it was clear to me

that he would have been much better off to drop the weak prog altogether.

Don't fight City Hall.

I told him that I thought that in his ten play look back he should ignore the last

two plays because they are ALWAYS two losses and then look back 9 from there

to avoid ties.

I also said that the two of us will go over all his shoes together when he gets

back in an effort to fine tune this system. But so far, so good!

[killthehouse]

I'm sorry but I can't post them better than this.

The dotted prog is the RD1 one, the other is Anti.

andrea

Thanks for the post Andrea! But really no way to make the scan darker? I can't see the bet values in the first column even after darkening the color.

Regards,

kill

[ECD]

Kill, don't worry about it. I'm sure we can get Pj to help Andrea get them posted

perfectly as soon as PJ get's back.

[MVSeahog]

OK, let's try this one more time, correctly....

Well, I can help out a bit. Here's the first shoe from Andrea's scan. At least as best I could see it.

Hopefully somebody else will tackle the other ones.

This was run with NO weak side waiting.

MVS (must find a decent red ink pen instead of the pencil)

Stop the presses. The start is wrong now.

The first red 1 should be a zero as it hasn't hit yet. Only changes the score by 1.

(Why do I attempt to do these things in a hurry all the time???)

Edited March 2, 2010 by MVSeahog
Fourth correction!! I must be sleepy or something.

[Plasia87]

Don't worry guys, the computer science graduate is here to save the day.

[wolfat]

Tx Plasia!

andrea

[TomM]

Test upload Lenny shoe replayed by Andrea:

Well sounds like PJ is doing well with the RD1/n U1D2 version so I grabbed this from the ones Andrea replayed for Kill and Lenny to see if I could follow his play and I also pick a tough shoe so I could try out an idea that I had to keep a bad shoe within a reasonable stop-loss area. I was hoping to keep this one to a minus 8 but it went to a -9 before it turned around a little.

Being this had such a horrible start under the current 2HI rules that Andrea played it by I decided to try something that has worked well for me in skor/ks and m&m thread. Here I just decided not to make a 2-unit bet unit I was ahead by 3 units. I used the margin to do this here. In this shoe I never got a 2 unit bet off by this rule but it controlled the drawdown a bit, keeping it from sliding into double digit loss before turning around.

This is the first RD1/n 2 hi shoe I have attempted so I just followed Andreas shoe and from what I know of the WW and WLW rule it appears as if Andreas shoe is mistake free so I hope I didn't screw anything up at this late/early hour. I marked the WLW and WW so you can pick them out if you are having any problems there.

It sounds like the good shoes take care of themselves so I thought to focus on the hard ones and see what can be done. This is very preliminary but perhaps flat betting until a +3 would help in bad starts.

Reevaluate the shoe when you hit -4 or halfway to whatever the stop-loss may become for the 2HI version. This has worked well for me in the past for several systems.

If you stop betting this shoe at -4 and look at what is beating you (the lone ones and 2's) I think it would be good to just play the emerging BP disparity at play #18 and bet straight down on P until B repeats and then resume RD1/n and see how it goes. This shoe is no barn burner for RD1/n but I think this shoe will resume and play to a double digit win this way with the biggest draw down being -4 in this shoe. Like I said this is preliminary and so see what you think...maybe give you some ideas anyway.

Edited March 3, 2010 by TomM

[ECD]

Good job Tom! Loud and clear and colorful. There just doesn't seem to be enough blue winners.

Might try dropping the blue prog altogether at some point. PJ forgot that option too.

[ECD]

BTW guys! I tried shoe 113 above simple straight OTB4L. WHY? Because it is very high

in sporadic 1's, 2s, and 3s. NOTICABLY very high in all three things that OTB4L loves.

U1D2 M2 it scores an amazing +36 with a worst position of -1 at play 4. And a single

high bet of 4 - a PERFECT OTB4L shoe.

U1D1 M3 B2 played STRAIGHT OTB4L scores +63!

Why do I bring this up???

Because, when we are looking at a specific system like RD1n it is very easy to lose sight

of our overall goal at BTC. Play the best system for the shoe/table at hand.

We had no business playing RD1n in a shoe that was SCREAMING OTB4L. Also, I've

noticed that OTB4L tables can be extremly consistent remaining highly OTB4L

favorable for hours, usually entire sessions.

[TomM]

Lennys shoe played with RD1/n-2Hi v.1 (Same shoe as in post #121)

I am messing around with the same shoes as in the post above to see if a slight tweak would do any harm. This is still the only shoe I have tested with RD1/n and it is starting to click for me but still not at all fluid with it yet. I am attempting to have it conform to similar rules that I use for skor/ks only hopefully simpler.

G-1 Start the shoe normal RD1/n betting except do not make a two unit bet until you have 3 units banked.

G-2 Hit the Panic Button at -4 and try to examine the shoe and see why you are losing. If you lose two more bets whether normal RD1/n bets or your new bets lose reassess at -6 and try again one more time. Easy to change systems and play it from the margin flat betting one unit. If successful you are now back to zero or a little better. You can monitor what RD1/n has been doing and switch back or just wait for to consecutive loses to resume RD1/n net bets. Preliminarily -8 stop loss ends the shoe.

G-3 Identify the strongest current trend in the shoe after hitting -4 or -6 and look to pick a Key entry point

and flat bet it until it ends with 2 consecutive losses hits the stop-loss or recovers. That’s it for now.

In this shoe things were going down hill right from the top so all red ink in the score column not to hard to figure would have to make a move to help out RD1/n. After hitting -4 and stumbling around -5 it started to regain a couple units but decided the lone ones still looked menacing so figured if play 18 wasn't a bank just bet straight down on player hoping the two-ones would continue or just player would stay strong for a few hands. If play 18 had been a bank I would have started betting OTB4L from the margin. It worked out and hit a high of 20 units from a low of -5 so this one worked out OK. Once it hit +3 and the two unit bets started winning in the threes it started taking off. The 2's returned in the 3rd but it went threw those OK with the RD prog suspended most of the column and finished with a couple 4's . Doesn't look like a very good RD1/n shoe to me on the surface but worked out here.

I have no idea how this will work out over time but maybe an idea you can use in your play. I still haven't tried the U1D2 version yet so hope to see PJ's report on that when he gets back.

Edited March 4, 2010 by TomM

[moneybac]

hi tom,would this shoe be a good one for system zero