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Hi Tom,

Can you please this shoe using your way like you did on post #124. Thanks a lot!

P2112511111211

B2213311241

B4213114211

P41212213

Baccplay

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hi tom,would this shoe be a good one for system zero

Right Sam I believe Sys/0 ends at +19...Always quite a bit more of the "pucker factor" with Sys/0 but you can play it dead tired and usually win if the shoe appears Sys/0 ripe. Might play system zero in shoes dominated by 3 in a row and 4 ops (counted correctly) possibly with a 2,3 neg. prog at half units and forget doubling...if loss the prog see why you lost and resume with the appropriate system. I just started playing Bph with no card at times half watcing tv half playing Sys 40, OTb4L, and TB4L and that is a very comfortble way to play for me. I'm not recommending playing without a card but I was on the nickel table and allowed a 10 point spead and made a couple $50.00 bets to bail out of a couple bad situations. I was playing that in fun mode just to see if I could pull it off. Sys 40 and OTB4L wins a hole lot of most shoes and TB4L picks up the remainer. I don't even dream of playing skor/ks or now RD1/n 2Hi without a card. I usually have the tv on but muted and the phone riinger turned off but can see the light fash and caller ID if it appears urgent. Always nice to have some music plalying though.

Still to early but it may be that RD1/n-2Hi may play just fine with some skor/ks MM guidelines lightened up. It's may be simiiar to skor/ks in that it hits sections of shoes that it stumbles in than step in and take your best guess flat betting to get back the loss, and then resume. Being that RD1/n handles the Zero shoes pretty well it should work better than skor/ks if my early guess is correct. Time will tell I quess.

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Hi Tom,

Can you please this shoe using your way like you did on post #124. Thanks a lot!

P2112511111211

B2213311241

B4213114211

P41212213

Baccplay

Ok, Bacc will give it a shot Asap. I am still very slow playing this way so give me a day or two. Have to watch for the WLW's to avoid many mistakes. Once I can play this thing with any additional tweaks it may need probably testing against DB dealers on puppy-uppers will be the acid test for me.

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Tunica Trip Report.

Really good trip. I played Sun-Wed total of 14 shoes.

10 shoes played RD1N. +20 +17 +2 +11 +10 +5 -10 +5 +16 +5 (8.1 units per shoe) That -10 shoe was a real mutha, I’ll post it in a couple of days.

RD1 went very smoothly, I played U1D2 No M2 cap at 5.

I did use a 9 hand look back to determine the strong/weak prog. This way there were no ties when choosing the strong prog.

I played 3 shoes NuSAP 1,1,2 prog. +8, +5, -1.

I played 1 shoe RD1/F2, but played it very poorly and it ended -7. (My fault)

Anyway it was a very good trip. We had close friends meet us there from Chicago, so we had a lot of socializing and I tagged along while they played slots (no thanks) and went for the fine dining (I’m sure I gained 30 lbs.) I would have played many more shoes if it had been just me and wife Shirley.

Total won, 86 units. I’ll take results like this any time. I’m basically a very conservative player.

I have to go now, we had a death in the family yesterday (a cousin) and have to help make the arrangements.

Then, I’ll be back in full BTC mode, to answer questions.

Thanks,

PJ

Edited by ECD
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wolfat
Tunica Trip Report.

RD1 went very smoothly, I played U1D2 No M2 cap at 5.

PJ

Hi PJ,

many compliments!

Capped at 5 means that when you lose the 5 come back to 1 again?

What about the stop-loss?

tx

andrea

bacclover

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Thanks Andrea,

I used to go back to 1 after losing 5, but I talked to Ellis and now when I lose the 5 bet, my next bet is 3 (keeping U1D2).

That's how I played in Tunica.

I used -10 in Tunica, but it could probably be lower, like our old favorite -8.

That -10 shoe of mine really brought down the units per shoe. It was a real nightmare for most systems. I'll post it in a day or two. Personal stuff going on right now to take care of.

PJ

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killthehouse
Thanks Andrea,

I used to go back to 1 after losing 5, but I talked to Ellis and now when I lose the 5 bet, my next bet is 3 (keeping U1D2).

That's how I played in Tunica.

I used -10 in Tunica, but it could probably be lower, like our old favorite -8.

That -10 shoe of mine really brought down the units per shoe. It was a real nightmare for most systems. I'll post it in a day or two. Personal stuff going on right now to take care of.

PJ

Hi PJ,

So does that mean if you lose the 3 you will go to 4?

Regards,

kill

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wolfat
Thanks Andrea,

I used to go back to 1 after losing 5, but I talked to Ellis and now when I lose the 5 bet, my next bet is 3 (keeping U1D2).

That's how I played in Tunica.

I used -10 in Tunica, but it could probably be lower, like our old favorite -8.

That -10 shoe of mine really brought down the units per shoe. It was a real nightmare for most systems. I'll post it in a day or two. Personal stuff going on right now to take care of.

PJ

Tx for prompt reply,

just one more thing: when lose the resume bet, you still re-hybernating till ww/wlw?

ciao

andrea

bacclover

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PaPaJoe

PaPaJoePpLets say you lose the 1,2 bet, rest, then lose 3,4 bet, rest, then the 5 and do you go back to the 3 bet

When you are resting means your waiting for WW or WLW.

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PaPaJoePpLets say you lose the 1,2 bet, rest, then lose 3,4 bet, rest, then the 5 and do you go back to the 3 bet

When you are resting means your waiting for WW or WLW.

That's basically it. When you lose the 5 bet you can go back to 3 to keep it U1D2, OR you could go all the way back to 1 and restart that prog at 1. I've just been going back to 3.

PJ

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Hi Tom,

Can you please this shoe using your way like you did on post #124. Thanks a lot!

P2112511111211

B2213311241

B4213114211

P41212213

Baccplay

Sorry Bacc haven't found the time to practice with RD1/n yet. I'm still at one shoe played that way and holding. From what I see up to now it handles the shoes system zero likes nicely played as it is now or with the slight tweak with the v.1 Guidelines. That in itself is very encouraging. A 2 Hi system that can beat Zero shoes is something to be reckoned with. I am playing a lot online now trying to put a roll together for a road trip this summer. I figure cruising Canada and try as many of the smoke free joints and see if I can hook up with some of our Canadian members for some online and B&M play.

I am looking for more posts from those that have the time to practice RD1/n straight or the version (incomplete) that I used. I think that when these oddball Zero shoes crop up just play a 2,3 negative prog., possibly with half units if you are getting more straight runs of 3 and rarely any straight runs of 5. Playing for half units makes sense for this here unless the casino is hitting you with these shoes consistently. Alternately you could play a full unit at 1.5 , 1. If you are winning the 1.5 unit bet getting a lot of 3's and 4 opposites (counted correctly) keep going and if it falters the shoe is producing more 4,s you only lose a half unit there and if that continues one more time you are most likely looking at a shoe that can be beat with RD1 or what I call RD/0 (adjusting for the lone 1's). I think this may be a practical way to get through these basically unreadable shoe types without a steep negative prog. This is simpler to do online because in the B&M joints the better players will bail these tables (if there is anywhere else to go) which typically leaves you heads-up or in a stare down contest with the last man standing as to who is going to play the off hands.

It would be nice to see RD1/n tweaked so it plays well across all shoes types as this would solve a multitude of problems while keeping the game 2 Hi. Failing that the U1D2 version capped at 5 may be the way to go. I haven't tried that yet looking forward to PJ posting up some of his Tunica shoes. Also give Eliis a chance to go over those shoes with PJ and see what comes of that.

There are so many good systems here that can be combined in this or that way that folks who want to stay 2hi can do so with good results and others that don't mind a steeper progression do even better. Proper discipline and MM is all that is required from then on.

I am very interested to see how this whole RD1/n Antii-RD1 thing plays out in the coming days. Right now I am sticking with a list of initials at the top of my card that reads KS/BB/RD1-0/Z. I could throw in sys 40 and F2 and F3 except I was already playing a version of those from the margin anyway, while keeping up the slor/ks notation or playing single side betting with the emerging M&M method. I still like too use the SKOR prog as a roadmap and then add the others from the margin. It would be nice to have RD1/n working as a net betting base if it plays well in most Zero shoes.

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Here’s a shoe from the Tunica trip played RD1N. My original scorecard lookes like chicken scratches (sort of like TomM’s lol!), so I used excel and a little color to make it easier to follow.

I used a 9 play look back to determine the strong/weak side. That 9 play look back did not include the 2 losing bets. Here’s how I looked at it. If I lose 2 bets in a row, look back 9 hands from the last winning circle.

I used U1D2 No M2 capped at 5. If I lost a 5 bet my next bet was 3 (D2). I could have “tweaked†the longer runs by betting 1.2.1.2.1.2 down the run after 3 wins, but I just kept it at 1,1,1,1 etc.

PJ

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This was a deliberate "mistake". We had been seeing lots of sporadic 1's, and I bet 2 on Bank at hand 4, because I anticipated a sporadic 1. I was wrong.

Should have followed the rules HUH?

PJ

Edited by ECD
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PaPaJoe

Why did you bet 3 units on banker on hand 45 if the weak side if that was the side that lost the 4 & 5 bet? Wouldn't you been resting the weak side. What is the weak side I migth not have the correcd way of playing the weak and strong side.

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Hi res,

Let's start by looking at hand 44.The black prog had just lost 2 in a row, so we need to look back 9 hands from hand 42. That's because we don't count the 2 hands that just lost. So, if we look back to hand 34, that's 9 hands. We're counting from hand 34 to 42 now. There are 5 black wins and 4 red wins. Black is the strong prog, so we allow 1 more bet. Since we just lost the 5 bet our next bet is 3 and we put it on bank for the RD1 (black) prog.

It sounds complicated, but once you do it a few times it's easier.

PJ

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PJ,

Congradulations on a great trip! Was the one muther of a shoe the result of a bad start or a consistant pounding of lone ones or something else? This appears to have the ability to power through most shoes if the start doesn't get you and maybe the lone 1's can be defused or even taken advantage of at times. In the shoe above it appears the 1's makeup would be hard to guess at. It winds through some pretty wierd stuff with lttle give back here. Is this consistant with most of your shoes from Tunica or do the scores fluctuate enough that you feel you might want to lock up a win at some point in the shoe? Do you think the lone losing shoe can be fixed somehow without upsetting the apple cart? Is there a losing sequence that is identifiable enough that the plug could easily be pulled if we don't manage to lose it in the 1st column?

Thanks again for all the work you put into these systems. I couldn't function as well without seeing some of your shoes. When you find the time can you post the losing shoe ? A picture being worth thousand words and all that...

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Hi Tom,

It's in post #144. Those single 1's were the problem and I hit my -10 stop loss at hand 36. A wider stop loss might have brought this one back from the underworld, but I was up at the time and didn't want to chase this one. It's the only loser from the trip and you know what they say. "Can't win 'em all"

PJ

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PJ

In the -10 shoe in post #144 it appears that if you use the rule to flat bet 1 unit until a +3 your worst posiion in the shoe is -5 and end at play #36 with -3 if I did this right half asleep. This seems to control drawdown in poor starts and increase survivability until the shoe changes or a new rule can be brought to bear in these rough starts.

I don't believe the flat betting till a +3 will hurt you much in favorable shoes as it much as it helps in bad shoes. This is just a guess and hoping that holding to this similiar guideline in skor/ks, flat betting until +6 before firing 2 unit bets would help here.

Either way this is a tough start without some intervention at -4 or something like that.

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Good advice Tom!

But look guys, again:

RD1n is a great system and I think PJ has proved that it ALMOST covers the waterfront.

The key word is "ALMOST". I don't think we will ever have a single system that covers

the WHOLE waterfront.

What we DO have is this: RD1n can be manipulated to beat MOST situations. But when its losing

it loses to drastic disparity between RD1 and its opposite. This points directly to another system.

Usually it points to one of two choices: Either RD1 or System 40. In this case it's obviously Sys 40.

Threes are very high pointing to 3 bets before we go on the run. So a 123 on opposites with the

4th bet OTR kills this shoe.

So, when the system we are playing hits -4, or even sooner, we need to be asking ourselves

WHICH system SHOULD I be playing?

We can't expect a table to stay favorable to a certain system forever. But it is always MOST

favorable to something. Our job is to determine what.

I think we need to concentrate more on the likes and dislikes of each system we know. I'm

thinking in terms of a thread devoted to ONLY that. Would that be helpful?

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PaPaJoe

In your losing shoe wouldn't hand 14 be a black 4 on banker and a black 5 on player or were you playing 2hi. if so you made black 2 unit bet on 14 & 15

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