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RD1 | N Discussion and Rules ECD Group February 22, 2010


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PaPaJoe

In your losing shoe wouldn't hand 14 be a black 4 on banker and a black 5 on player or were you playing 2hi. if so you made black 2 unit bet on 14 & 15

Good question res. The reason I used a 2 on banker at hand 14 is; black is the weak prog at this point (see hands 3 - 11) so, I'm thinking "I should bring black back in, but not as the strong prog, so I purposely brought it in one unit lower than the red (strong) prog. I know this does not conform to the published rules, but that is the strength of RD1N, it identifies the strong/weak progs., and all we have to do is use that information correctly. "Why bet against the strong prog?

Hi PJ

On hand#15 the black 2 should be on B not on P because you have before an 1,2 is that correct? Thanks-Kostas

You're right Kkraits, I wish I had seen this in the casino it would have won and black would have stayed in the mix. Hand 15 would be 1 red player, 2 black bank. Hand 16 would be 2 red player and 1 black bank. Hand 17 would be red hibernate 1 black on bank, and so on...

Black would lose hands 18 & 19 and go into hibernation at hand 20. Red would resume at hand 20 with a 3 bet and the column would still end at -3

Thanks for spotting the mistake for me.

PJ

Edited by ECD
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Hello

Hello Ellis

I like the idea of what Ellis said about combining sys 40 to rd1 if it is going south..

hope to see some good updates on that...

Also any news on the

I'm writing a new RD1, Sys 40 Tricks of the Trade: thread that will be better than the old manual.

sounds great

Dazza

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Hi all,

Just got back to the forum after a week of Grandfather action. I started with a response to PJ to a PM he had sent and mentioned that I was becoming very interested in PL and type of prog for the various systems. We have developed and tweaked several systems over the past few months and have many that are very good.. excellent on some shoe types and OK on others, dead on some types. I feel that we need to match the PLs and progs with the various systems to maximize their effectiveness. By that I mean when will a U1D2, 1212..., 12321, 123 skip, 1, 1.5, 2, .. etc work best for which system? How long should the PL be for that system to work? Does stopping after 2 losses, or three losses, etc. diminish or even prevent a system to work that needs to run for 3, or 4, or 5... bets? After playing with Ellis, PJ, and Zebra twice in Tunica I see varying results based a lot on how conservative or aggresive each played. I see that there are many posts in the last week that are asking questions about PL or unit size. Maybe we need some guidance in this area. I know PJ, myself, and by his posts, Andrea are basically conservative bettors by nature. I know that I want to consistently win at $10 units with an eye on green, double green and/or black down the road, so playing conservatively now is preparing for the future when the "pucker factor" will come in to play. However, there is some level that we must play to on every system for that system to work. I would like to find out what these levels are. Any thoughts or guidance on this?

Bill

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Hi Bill,

About time we heard from you. lol!

You mentioned that I am a conservative player. That's right. However with the right combination of system and prog. I could move up my unit size, but still bet the same way. That's my goal. I like being a conservative bettor, It keeps me out of catastrophic situations and keeps my pucker factor low. That's how I enjoy the game. I'm not trying to make a living playing like Mark does (quite well), but I do consistantly win and Baccarat is the only game I can get this result.

You mentioned studying the various PLs and prog composition. The prog. composition is very important. This is where we can get creative and tweak our system to suite our gambling style. There are soft progs (1,1,2) suited best for very conservative play all the way to the infamous true fibonacci. Choosing the best prog is basically chosing the risk level you are comfortable with.

The PL is also tied to the prog being used and the system selected. One thing we could study is the effect of waiting, or suspending bets on one side until a certain condition occurs. I guess the best way to tell is to play "x" number of shoes, but play them each twice, once with the skip bets and once straight thur with the selected prog. Since there are so many progs and systems available, this might take some time to finish.

A computer program would be helpful, but I'm no programmer, and have no idea how simple or complex the program would have to be.

Anyway, you bring up some very good points that need to be explored. I'm glad you chimed in, now we just need to hear from Ellis.

Hope to see you in Tunica soon.

PJ

Edited by ECD
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I just got back from Gold Coast LV yesterday. Had some mixed results (Will post the end results soon) but I have a really weird fishy feeling about GC. I don't like how they "strip" the cards after each shuffle. Really manipulates how they will start in the next rounds thereon. I did win more than lose but not enough to rant about. I spoke with Tom(uneek) the other day about game starts. I personally do believe that this system would benefit from a double 0 start so that you can avoid a catastrophic loss (-4 or more) in the first 5-7 plays. I noticed if it went a certain way in the beginning per say PBBBB or so you would lose a lot of units off the bat. So I believe I will utilize a double 0 start from here on out.

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I just got back from Gold Coast LV yesterday. Had some mixed results (Will post the end results soon) but I have a really weird fishy feeling about GC. I don't like how they "strip" the cards after each shuffle. Really manipulates how they will start in the next rounds thereon. I did win more than lose but not enough to rant about. I spoke with Tom(uneek) the other day about game starts. I personally do believe that this system would benefit from a double 0 start so that you can avoid a catastrophic loss (-4 or more) in the first 5-7 plays. I noticed if it went a certain way in the beginning per say PBBBB or so you would lose a lot of units off the bat. So I believe I will utilize a double 0 start from here on out.

I dont know what you mean by "strip the cards" ???

NormA

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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After the shoe is fully dealt they sort of strip it splitting the 8 deck shoe in half then taking about 1-2 decks in one hand from each stack and then slowly with 1 hand holding the 1-2 decks they take the middle portion of the decks and set it down in the middle. They repeat this until all the decks are "stripped down" so that it sort of recreates a new shuffle before it goes back into the machine

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After the shoe is fully dealt they sort of strip it splitting the 8 deck shoe in half then taking about 1-2 decks in one hand from each stack and then slowly with 1 hand holding the 1-2 decks they take the middle portion of the decks and set it down in the middle. They repeat this until all the decks are "stripped down" so that it sort of recreates a new shuffle before it goes back into the machine

I see

Thanks

NormA

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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I have not been wanting to ask this question but I need help. Can someone point me to a place where I can find more information on net betting? I have been looking but I have not found anything that answers my specific questions. I understand most of it, but I tend to get confused about what to do when I start at 0v0. Do both sides have to go up? Or does the winning side go up? Actually if somebody can answer this question then I think I will understand it.

Lets say that Player won which makes the count 1v0. Next, Player wins again and the count becomes what? 0v1 or 2v1? This is where I am getting confused.

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Hi John! It depends on the exact rules you played by but I played it U1D2 M2

allowing 3 loses on each prog before suspending and it scored +11 , down from +12,

with no negative scores.

I used all 3 standard RD1 rules. Bet repeats except bet twice under a one or a two following a one.

I started at play 2 with 1 vs 1 ( no 0 start).

I did the RD1 prog in black and the oppo prog in red.

I'll color code the entries below the same way R=red, B= black.

Starting at play 2 your P entries are:

1R,2R,3B,1B,1R,2R,3R,4R, 2R,3R,1R,2R,1R,2R,3R,1R,4B,2B,1R,2R = 20 entries, 21 plays

Starting at play 2, your B entries are:

1B,2B,1R,2R,2B,3B,1B,2B,3B,1B,2B,3B,2R,3R,3B,1B,2B,1B,2B,1B,

Your score starting at play 2 is:

0,0,2,3,2,3,1,3,4,6,7,8,9,8,9,7,9,10,12,11

Recognize that i'm using 3 losses for each color prog as my signal to suspend,

which never happened.

I'll email the column to PJ to post here.

BTW, your highest bet was 2.

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On these systems where you are deciding on a 2 vs 3 loss limit like RD1n, TB4L, Sys 40 etc.

I always start with 3 And then go by whether the 3rd bet usually wins or not. That way

you are letting the shoe make the decision for you. That is always best.

John, sent your col to PJ. Just remember, when I say 2 or 3 losses, I'm referring to each prog.

NOT your table bets.

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John, when we do the 0 start thing or the 00 start thing, each prog must win a 0 before it can go to 1.

That way if a prog hits a run at the beginning of a shoe it is making the most of it by betting "unopposed"

The bad news is that you are giving up a winning bet. So we usually only use the 0 start when we are

seeing a lot of runs at that table. If we make 0 start a standard rule it probably hurts as much as it helps.

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RD1n is a good system under the right conditions so we include it as ONE

of the systems in our selection bag. To choose RD1n we like to see a tote

board where RD1 is winning about HALF the plays.

NEVER decide on a system before you see what you are up against!

These guys that decide what they are going to play before they even get

to the casino just don't get it. Amateurs!

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Thanks for taking the time to replay the shoe and to explain some things to me. When I played I actually played U1D2 with no M2 so I guess I was using M1 and looking back at my score sheet it looks like my highest bet was 3 units. Maybe i made a mistake playing that way. I will try M2 the next time I play. I was also doing waht you said as far as waiting for a prog to lose 3 times before suspending it, so I never had a suspended prog.

I will also consider what you say about table selection with this system. the problem is that AC does not have the Tote boards which i am sure you are well aware of. I guess I will just have to monitor the shoe as I play and get out if it does not seem like it will fair well with RD1n.

In your opinion do you think that RD1n is ready for live play yet? It seems fairly new and it also seems like some of the conversation about it has died down a bit.

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Hi John, if you are at casinos that don't use totes just grab a score card and paper play till you can determin what is happening in the game. Then you must be able to match a system to that game. Even if you only are using RD1/N you should with practice be able to determin if it's going to work. Or better yet what system will work. Hope this helps, Brian...........old

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Hi John, if you are at casinos that don't use totes just grab a score card and paper play till you can determin what is happening in the game. Then you must be able to match a system to that game. Even if you only are using RD1/N you should with practice be able to determin if it's going to work. Or better yet what system will work. Hope this helps, Brian...........old

That's a good idea but if you'd like to play while sitting there, I've used the Maverick (Mreteuya's play) running 11211234 as the betting plan for the first column and it's kept me out of trouble on the last two sessions so that I can at least get to the second column and on without really risking any real money while waiting for the shoe to develop.

MVS

Edited by MVSeahog
Correct punctuation
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BTW, I realize that I had instructed PJ to go 2 losing bets on the weak prog and 3 on the strong prog

but in John's column the two progs were running about equal strength so I went 3 bets on both progs.

That's the kind of shoe you want with RD1n - equal strength. Yes it is casino ready but don't play in

the blind. Make sure the table is compatible with RD1n.- Not particularly Choppy or Streaky - what

we call Neutral. The number of bets in each prog is where your advantage comes from so, let

the shoe decide.

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