60 shoes from may 6 vegas trip

[ECD]

It is very, very important that when you practice with theses shoes you do it in the following manner :

When you print out a shoe DO NOT LOOK AT IT cover it up with a piece of paper and start playing it by reveling one hand at a time.

NO PEEKING AT THE NEXT HAND

Anyone could win a shoe after the fact, when they see the whole shoe in advance. You need to play as though you were in the casino.

ONE HAND AT A TIME. I great way to do this is to teem up with a partner and one partner feeds the shoe to the other one hand at a time.

It could be done over the phone. PJ and I have done this several times.

If you don't practice in this manner you are only kidding yourself.

Also do not expect to get the same results in the casino as you get practicing at home.

In the casino you will have a lot of distractions and pressure, and might be rushed to place you bet.

It is a whole different ball game when you are playing a live game in the casino with money on the table.

Even the best seasoned player will make mistakes in a live casino game.

For the record in theses 60 shoes I won 48 shoes and lost 12 shoes

My highest score was +60. In the 12 shoes that I lost I got out at my stop loss witch is -7 or -8.

My average score over the 60 shoes was +10 unit per shoe.

I never made a bet more then 4 units and very few 4 unit bets.

I do not play the NOR system that is why you see the OT count on my scorecards,

and for this reason I will not post my played shoes as I don't want to muddy the waters,

as most of you are learning and playing NOR.

NOR is a good way to play, stick with it and MASTER it. do not jump from one new system to another if they come along.

All you need to do is MASTER one system no mater what that system is.

It took me 5 years and over 5,000 live casino shoes ( living in Vegas for 3 years I played every day)

to learn how to play the way I am playing now and I am still trying to MASTER it.

When you think you mastered it don't get over confident because it will bite you in the ass.

You must practice every day.

NormA

I'm hearing you Norm and I'm in the process of playing all 60 of your shoes and will be playing them as you advised.

I copied every shoe into my graph book and have already forgotten any whole shoe patterns that I noticed (one of the benefits of growing old...DAMMIT)

I'm going to play each shoe as if I was using a base bet of $200 (hopefully that will prevent me making risky paper only bets) and see how I go using my limited knowledge of NOR+....I'll keep you and anyone who is interested up to speed.

Thank you mate for taking the time to post this invaluable learning tool... This truly is a site where people seem to go the extra mile to turn complete strangers into winners.

Even apart from Ellis...I owe you and so many others on here a huge debt of gratitude and hopefully will be able to return in kind as I progress in my BTC learning experience.

Take care

Oz

UPDATE: I've played the first 14 of Norm's shoes as he advised (only revealing the result after bet has been made)...The first 10 shoes went OK....some good wins and some not so good ...lowest was +7 units but that would have been +10 if I'd followed the half decade rule strictly...BAD OZ!

Lost shoes 11 and 12 ...-8 and -4 respectively (probably shouldn't have made my 4th bet which was a 4 which took me below zero after being up 6)

Shoe 13 was an obvious F shoe that virtually played itself for a big win...and shoe 14 was a not so obvious (to me anyway) S40 shoe which I stopped at +8 (half decade rule) I didn't enter the shoe until play 18 cos I wasn't sure. If I'd played the shoe all the way I would have ended with +20 but would of had to go down to +5 with a 4 bet to come...I know damn well that I wouldn't be doing that with $200 chips...lol

Hey...When I've played all 60 of Norm's shoes, I am happy to post them and table my play by play reasoning so that Ellis or some of the other Pros can analyse my play (Ozspeak for mistakes) lol

Sometimes you learn a lot from the mistakes of others

Finished first 20 shoes

17...18....20 were winners and went down -7 on 19...(I think I played 19 badly...reality check)....but all in all...20 shoes for 3 losses of -8...-4 and -7 max

I think I screwed up shoe 21...pulled out at +2 after hitting +8 twice

Geez...some of these later shoes are proving pretty tough...give an old man a headache:rolleyes:.I was lulled into a false sense of security by the first 10 shoes methinks...but still going ok

[CdnChamer]

The shoes that Norm posted are a great practice learning tool especially the format that was used. Thanks.

As I mentioned in another thread, My local casino shuffles the cards even in early , mid, shoe if no players are at the table. You're right Ellis, this is very favorable to OTB4L & S40. I have recently had great success with S40 but have changed to OTB4L to start off my shoes and now doing better than before. So far, I have not had to switch out of OTB4L and now have a good handle on M1 - M2 - and M3 adjustments. On my scorecard I keep it as simple as possible without using "m2' or M3" notes. The bets I place OTR with are written in RED and my running win/loss count is in Blue for up, red for negative. The players and dealers are puzzled and I like it that way.

Thanks to all here, we are becoming an "Elite Secret Baccarat Society" Ha!

[Guest]

The shoes that Norm posted are a great practice learning tool especially the format that was used. Thanks.

As I mentioned in another thread, My local casino shuffles the cards even in early , mid, shoe if no players are at the table. You're right Ellis, this is very favorable to OTB4L & S40. I have recently had great success with S40 but have changed to OTB4L to start off my shoes and now doing better than before. So far, I have not had to switch out of OTB4L and now have a good handle on M1 - M2 - and M3 adjustments. On my scorecard I keep it as simple as possible without using "m2' or M3" notes. The bets I place OTR with are written in RED and my running win/loss count is in Blue for up, red for negative. The players and dealers are puzzled and I like it that way.

Thanks to all here, we are becoming an "Elite Secret Baccarat Society" Ha!

I have often said that you should never decide what you are going to play before you get to the casino and see, first hand, exactly what you are up against.

But having said that, there is another truism that seems almost contradictory. "The more you know about your target casino, the better off you are."

Different casinos have different conditions at different times of day and differing casino rules can make a big difference.

The casino I played this weekend has the opposite rule: "All shoes must be played to the end." This results in the fact that all shoes are shuffled from a known condition. The casino's desired shuffle result is more likely to prevail. I will likely never play that casino again.

Think about it. When the players quit half way through a shoe and the casino shuffles at that point, half the cards were shuffled twice and half only once since they were played. This gives the casino less control over the result. The more cards are shuffled the more they favor OTB4L. This is why new cards so often favor OTB4L. They not only went through the standard casino shuffle, but a card prep as well that usually includes a wash. It pays to pay attention to such things.

[Norm A]

I'm hearing you Norm and I'm in the process of playing all 60 of your shoes and will be playing them as you advised.

I copied every shoe into my graph book and have already forgotten any whole shoe patterns that I noticed (one of the benefits of growing old...DAMMIT)

I'm going to play each shoe as if I was using a base bet of $200 (hopefully that will prevent me making risky paper only bets) and see how I go using my limited knowledge of NOR+....I'll keep you and anyone who is interested up to speed.

Thank you mate for taking the time to post this invaluable learning tool... This truly is a site where people seem to go the extra mile to turn complete strangers into winners.

Even apart from Ellis...I owe you and so many others on here a huge debt of gratitude and hopefully will be able to return in kind as I progress in my BTC learning experience.

Take care

Oz

UPDATE: I've played the first 14 of Norm's shoes as he advised (only revealing the result after bet has been made)...The first 10 shoes went OK....some good wins and some not so good ...lowest was +7 units but that would have been +10 if I'd followed the half decade rule strictly...BAD OZ!

Lost shoes 11 and 12 ...-8 and -4 respectively (probably shouldn't have made my 4th bet which was a 4 which took me below zero after being up 6)

Shoe 13 was an obvious F shoe that virtually played itself for a big win...and shoe 14 was a not so obvious (to me anyway) S40 shoe which I stopped at +8 (half decade rule) I didn't enter the shoe until play 18 cos I wasn't sure. If I'd played the shoe all the way I would have ended with +20 but would of had to go down to +5 with a 4 bet to come...I know damn well that I wouldn't be doing that with $200 chips...lol

Hey...When I've played all 60 of Norm's shoes, I am happy to post them and table my play by play reasoning so that Ellis or some of the other Pros can analyse my play (Ozspeak for mistakes) lol

Sometimes you learn a lot from the mistakes of others

Finished first 20 shoes

17...18....20 were winners and went down -7 on 19...(I think I played 19 badly...reality check)....but all in all...20 shoes for 3 losses of -8...-4 and -7 max

I think I screwed up shoe 21...pulled out at +2 after hitting +8 twice

Geez...some of these later shoes are proving pretty tough...give an old man a headache:rolleyes:.I was lulled into a false sense of security by the first 10 shoes methinks...but still going ok

That's good playing, keep up the good work. The more you practice the better you will get.

NormA

[Guest]

Norm was telling me that one of the gulf coast casinos he played that uses regular cards (8 individual boxed card order decks)

that just went through their standard card prep, were very streaky. Yet below I said that such cards would favor OTB4L the first few shoes. My statement below was incomplete:

Here's what is going on with that: Casinos have been experimenting with card preps for 40 years. A card prep is the initial shuffling procedure only brand new standard cards go through and it usually includes a wash.They know exactly what each of their standard card preps produce both in Bac and BJ. So they select the card prep that usually beats the type of player they mostly get.

Some casinos cater to mostly vacation type players. A streak card prep usually beats their players.

Some casinos cater to experienced streak players (Atlantic City). These players often play up as you win Fibonacis. So the casino is going to throw pure chop at them. Remember when I won the 6 straight shoes in AC. I played only S40 because I was getting pure chop in both casinos at all 4 tables.

But most casinos will use an OTB4L prep because it beats all KNOWN Baccarat systems. Recognize that our OTB4L system is NOT a known system.

Also preshuffled cards tend to favor OTB4L at least somewhat. Now you know why.

The important point you need to grasp out of all this is to know what shoe type the casino you are playing is favoring.

Remember PJ's 10 shoes from Gold Strike/Horseshoe, Tunica. He played straight OTB4L at all times of day and won every shoe as I recall. But he didn't start out with that. The first system he tried was not working out well. So he switched to OTB4L. The 10 shoes he posted were only the shoes he played after switching to OTB4L. It is usually right but definitely not always.

That word "usually" keeps coming up in Baccarat discussion. They could have named the game "Usually"

Or, totally inexperienced onlookers would think the name of the game is "Oh Shit"!

[CdnChamer]

Norm was telling me that one of the gulf coast casinos he played that uses regular cards (8 individual boxed card order decks)

that just went through their standard card prep, were very streaky. Yet below I said that such cards would favor OTB4L the first few shoes. My statement below was incomplete:

Here's what is going on with that: Casinos have been experimenting with card preps for 40 years. A card prep is the initial shuffling procedure only brand new standard cards go through and it usually includes a wash.They know exactly what each of their standard card preps produce both in Bac and BJ. So they select the card prep that usually beats the type of player they mostly get.

Some casinos cater to mostly vacation type players. A streak card prep usually beats their players.

Some casinos cater to experienced streak players (Atlantic City). These players often play up as you win Fibonacis. So the casino is going to throw pure chop at them. Remember when I won the 6 straight shoes in AC. I played only S40 because I was getting pure chop in both casinos at all 4 tables.

But most casinos will use an OTB4L prep because it beats all KNOWN Baccarat systems. Recognize that our OTB4L system is NOT a known system.

Also preshuffled cards tend to favor OTB4L at least somewhat. Now you know why.

The important point you need to grasp out of all this is to know what shoe type the casino you are playing is favoring.

Remember PJ's 10 shoes from Gold Strike/Horseshoe, Tunica. He played straight OTB4L at all times of day and won every shoe as I recall. But he didn't start out with that. The first system he tried was not working out well. So he switched to OTB4L. The 10 shoes he posted were only the shoes he played after switching to OTB4L. It is usually right but definitely not always.

That word "usually" keeps coming up in Baccarat discussion. They could have named the game "Usually"

Or, totally inexperienced onlookers would think the name of the game is "Oh Shit"!

That's what I was hearing all morning at a local casino, except me, I was saying... Oh Yaaaaa! OTB4L was working fabulously. I used to have difficulty with OTB4L because its complexity OTR modes etc. compared to S40 & F2 & F3, but now enjoy playing OTB4L method the most now as it works very well at my local casinos. The dealer was amazed how I was winning 5+ hands iar in 3 occasions during the shoe I played. He asked Ihow I arrive at my decisions and I told it it was quite simple.... Follow your plan.

The dealers ask me what other casinos I play in locally as I know for fact that they wish to sit and play along side me one day, but they need to be careful about their discussion with players in their own casino.

Great work everyone.

CC

[Guest]

That's what I was hearing all morning at a local casino, except me, I was saying... Oh Yaaaaa! OTB4L was working fabulously. I used to have difficulty with OTB4L because its complexity OTR modes etc. compared to S40 & F2 & F3, but now enjoy playing OTB4L method the most now as it works very well at my local casinos. The dealer was amazed how I was winning 5+ hands iar in 3 occasions during the shoe I played. He asked Ihow I arrive at my decisions and I told it it was quite simple.... Follow your plan.

The dealers ask me what other casinos I play in locally as I know for fact that they wish to sit and play along side me one day, but they need to be careful about their discussion with players in their own casino.

Great work everyone.

CC

Exactly right CC! Dealer's freak out when OTB4L is hitting. They are very used to winning such shoes. Last week the dealer flat out asked me what I was doing. She said "P and B are both at 28 so you definitely should be losing but you are at +22 - What are you doing?" I replied: "There is a certain secret way to play when P and B are running close." I thought she was going to follow me home.