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johnnycs1
Johnny, the BaS40 and S40M1 have been covered very well in the other $1,000,000 threads. It's the tweaks to the BA OTB4L that I am waiting for....

THANKS BLUE !! :).....I will also look for Ellis's BA OTBL tweaks ! :)

johnny

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I am having a hard time swallowing this thread. Really. We discuss betting $25 to $100 and some people $200 to $5000 per HAND, (less than 2 minutes) and someone mentions $10 bucks a month and people

Everyone please let’s have some respect, discipline and patients! Realize that Ellis and Keith can abandon us at will; they are the only ones left that can help us advance above the 95% of losers. W

Jim Files

Yes, I'm eagerly waiting on more gems of wisdom regarding the way to play the 3 +5 systems. I had a go at a couple of shoes at Bogart online casino tonight. I joined Bet Phoenix but a few months back they emailed me and said I should be playing on Bogart. It looks the same to me and still has live dealers so that is what I have been doing since Arizona has no casinos with Baccarat (BUMMER!!).

Anyway, I am going to attempt to attach copies of the two shoes and maybe we can get a discussion going on these. I didn't go into Bogart until the first shoe was down about 20 plays and then I started at play 25. One was so easy I almost felt guilty but not quite. Here they are:

post-1606-14500262211312_thumb.jpg

post-1606-14500262215646_thumb.jpg

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TJ, am I reading you right? Are you saying Bogart had two shoes in a row with 8iars?

Normal 8s are 1 in 16 shoes. I haven't seen 2 in a row in a couple decades. We usually don't even see 1 in 16.

You were definitely right to stay ON runs once on them at this casino.

But also, on another front, these are likely regular cards, not factory preshuffled. Can you confirm? Also are they using two different shoe colors? - playing one color while they shuffle the other? Can you tell?

I'm just trying to get a feel for what you are up against here. You played them extraordinarily well!

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CC,

Are you able to give a more direct hint to how 4D helps to exploit the short bias on pre-shuffled shoes using a 2Hi bet system. To me, filling up the 4D data during the casino play is very easy and fast. The question is that I am still unable to see a logical reason to exploit its advantage.

Tanpohh

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TJ, am I reading you right? Are you saying Bogart had two shoes in a row with 8iars?

Normal 8s are 1 in 16 shoes. I haven't seen 2 in a row in a couple decades. We usually don't even see 1 in 16.

You were definitely right to stay ON runs once on them at this casino.

But also, on another front, these are likely regular cards, not factory preshuffled. Can you confirm? Also are they using two different shoe colors? - playing one color while they shuffle the other? Can you tell?

I'm just trying to get a feel for what you are up against here. You played them extraordinarily well!

Saw a dream shoe last night of course all the tables were full.....

P51618161715281617

I yell "winner winner chicken dinner on all naturals"

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CC,

Are you able to give a more direct hint to how 4D helps to exploit the short bias on pre-shuffled shoes using a 2Hi bet system. To me, filling up the 4D data during the casino play is very easy and fast. The question is that I am still unable to see a logical reason to exploit its advantage.

Tanpohh

Tanpohh,

It's quite easy to do...start with the counts of the 4d then look at the shoe...you will see it....look for how it curves into the shoe

I yell "winner winner chicken dinner on all naturals"

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TJ, am I reading you right? Are you saying Bogart had two shoes in a row with 8iars?

Normal 8s are 1 in 16 shoes. I haven't seen 2 in a row in a couple decades. We usually don't even see 1 in 16.

You were definitely right to stay ON runs once on them at this casino.

But also, on another front, these are likely regular cards, not factory preshuffled. Can you confirm? Also are they using two different shoe colors? - playing one color while they shuffle the other? Can you tell?

I'm just trying to get a feel for what you are up against here. You played them extraordinarily well!

Saw a dream shoe last night of course all the tables were full.....

P51618161715281617

Yeah, an S40M1 Dream!
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Tanpohh,

It's quite easy to do...start with the counts of the 4d then look at the shoe...you will see it....look for how it curves into the shoe

Thanks trbfla. Can you further elaborate on "curves into the shoe"?

For me, the only way I play is to look for the lowest spread that is at 1 and then keep playing hoping that the spread won't cross over 3. Once it hit a spread of 3, I would stop. If the game is maintained at a spread 2, that is for sure my 1,2 progression will keep on wining and I have hit the right bias.

Tanpohh

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Thanks trbfla. Can you further elaborate on "curves into the shoe"?

For me, the only way I play is to look for the lowest spread that is at 1 and then keep playing hoping that the spread won't cross over 3. Once it hit a spread of 3, I would stop. If the game is maintained at a spread 2, that is for sure my 1,2 progression will keep on wining and I have hit the right bias.

Tanpohh

To further add on. I had used the betting progression within progression over the weekend but without using any bet placement method and just follow what the crowd bet. I was playing with $20 per units and I had won to $1100 and a lot of time I had missed the third bets. I was surprised this progression works though logically, I was still not so convinced about this progression method.

Tanpohh

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Yeah, an S40M1 Dream!

and get this...there were people betting AGAINST this........I said to the one guy...can you please get up so I can have your seat...it would save you money.....one guy went in table max twice and still lost......

I yell "winner winner chicken dinner on all naturals"

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Jim Files
TJ, am I reading you right? Are you saying Boinart had two shoes in a row with 8iars?

Normal 8s are 1 in 16 shoes. I haven't seen 2 in a row in a couple decades. We usually don't even see 1 in 16.

You were definitely right to stay ON runs once on them at this casino.

But also, on another front, these are likely regular cards, not factory preshuffled. Can you confirm? Also are they using two different shoe colors? - playing one color while they shuffle the other? Can you tell?

I'm just trying to get a feel for what you are up against here. You played them extraordinarily well!

Thanks Ellis!

I was very pleased with my results!

In answer to your questions, yes these were two back to back shoes. I got in late in the first one but I jumped in as soon as I got online when I saw the tote board. I wrote down a little history but I jumped in right away and im glad I did. The second shoe in was in from the beginning and started at play 2. They have a red deck and a blue deck. I'm not sure about preshuffled or not. I can see a dealer shuffling inthe backgound sometimes.

Jim

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kingfisher

tjfiles - could you please inform me on the system you started playing at hand 25? With the OR at 6 I assumed you are playing S40 and your first bet was the opposite. Then you followed the win with a repeat then an opposite. I am a bit confused here. Hopefully you can explain this to me. Thanks

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Jim Files
tjfiles - could you please inform me on the system you started playing at hand 25? With the OR at 6 I assumed you are playing S40 and your first bet was the opposite. Then you followed the win with a repeat then an opposite. I am a bit confused here. Hopefully you can explain this to me. Thanks

Hi Kingfisher,

Actually I looked at the tote board and noticed a lot of 2's. I didn't have time to compute the O/R count until later because I liked what I saw and didn't want to miss it. Playing online you only have a little time and they don't wait for you, lol. I jumped in with OTB4L. OTB4L won the first two play on 25 & 26. It lost on player on 27 so continuing OTB4L I bet B on play 28. That made a 4 IAR on B so I stayed OTR till it ended and by then I got up to 6 then lost and quit a play 33 when I dropped back to plus 5.

Hope this makes sense.

Jim

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Thanks Ellis!

I was very pleased with my results!

In answer to your questions, yes these were two back to back shoes. I got in late in the first one but I jumped in as soon as I got online when I saw the tote board. I wrote down a little history but I jumped in right away and im glad I did. The second shoe in was in from the beginning and started at play 2. They have a red deck and a blue deck. I'm not sure about preshuffled or not. I can see a dealer shuffling inthe backgound sometimes.

Jim

Sorry, I was out in the yard cleaning up after the hardest winter on record here. I'll be out again for several days.

But very interesting! They are using regular cards. You don't have two colors with preshuffled. Back to back 8s means a cursory shuffle. Are the cards regular size? I know some on line use oversized casrds.

I would look for high ST runs. However these on line casinos aren't stupid. Players tell me they present a totally different complexion each day. They tell me, unlike real casinos, you have to go by what you see each day. Clever bastards. But the odds of back to back 8s are only 1 in 64. It could be a huge coincidence or it just might be a tell. I would stay on all runs for now until the cards prove otherwise.

My guess is on line casinos won't go to preshuffled. That gives them a sales feature over regular casinos. I would stick with NOR and see what happens. Keep us posted. +5 is OK too but you are sort of penalizing yourself. Preshuffled we need to retreat to +5. But don't penalize yourself in regular cards. That's what NOR is for!

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Hi Kingfisher,

Actually I looked at the tote board and noticed a lot of 2's. I didn't have time to compute the O/R count until later because I liked what I saw and didn't want to miss it. Playing online you only have a little time and they don't wait for you, lol. I jumped in with OTB4L. OTB4L won the first two play on 25 & 26. It lost on player on 27 so continuing OTB4L I bet B on play 28. That made a 4 IAR on B so I stayed OTR till it ended and by then I got up to 6 then lost and quit a play 33 when I dropped back to plus 5.

Hope this makes sense.

Jim

That would be OTB4LM1. We never tried that before. Maybe we should check it out.

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That would be OTB4LM1. We never tried that before. Maybe we should check it out.

I was thinking the same thing. When he said following OTBL he bet banker on play 28, I just started scratching my head on that. His play worked out, but with all those 2's and just the one 4, I wouldn't have been thinking about an M1 type adjustment in that shoe. Oh well.

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To further add on. I had used the betting progression within progression over the weekend but without using any bet placement method and just follow what the crowd bet. I was playing with $20 per units and I had won to $1100 and a lot of time I had missed the third bets. I was surprised this progression works though logically, I was still not so convinced about this progression method.

Tanpohh

Today, I was testing the progression within a progression on a rapid roulette machine. My focus is not on the bet placement but to have a feel on this simple progression. I was surprise I had won $1,400 betting $20 per unit. It seems that to achieve a +5 units should not be a problem with this type of progression.

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If we play preshuffled cards and starting at play 2 my first thought would be it makes the system selection a guessing game, but in preshuffled cards they want to change bias maybe every 10-15 plays. So let's say we wait 10 plays before we determine which system we play and then the bias change and the system selection is wrong.

How do we solve that? Maybe it does't matter starting at play 2?

Well said Fatherfred. This is what I am afraid of even when we have the +5 system.

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newbacplayer
Well said Fatherfred. This is what I am afraid of even when we have the +5 system.

This is what I'm hoping to get some insight on from Ellis in the +5 system as it unfolds. gb

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trillion

Ellis, could you possibly explain what will be in the upcoming Million Dollar Baccarat Forum on line training?

Will I have to be available for each on line training from April 23,2014 thru May 31, 2014?

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newbacplayer
Ellis, could you possibly explain what will be in the upcoming Million Dollar Baccarat Forum on line training?

Will I have to be available for each on line training from April 23,2014 thru May 31, 2014?

Yes: can someone clarify whether these will be taped and available for later view, whether each day is a repeat, or whether each day is a separate topic! Would love details on this! Perhaps a new thread with a detailed announcement. Given the time of day, hope there would be flexibility on actual viewing time.

Edited by newbacplayer
misspelled word
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