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BaS40 (high 1's on the tote board or high 1's and 2s) (Same as S40 except for your secondary prog.)

Objective: +5 units

Best to wait for a 2iar to start and about ten plays

1.) Bet a 1,2 up as you lose primary prog on opposites. (You can only lose your primary prog to a 3iar or a 4iar when starting after a 2iar.)

2a) If most of the 3s have gone to 4 start your secondary prog 12358 directly under the 3iar If that 1 bet wins, wait for the run to end and start over.

2b) If it loses start over but after the next 3 your secondary prog is up to a 2 bet. (12358) up as you lose after 3iars.

3.) If most of the 3s so far stayed 3, start your primary prog opposite the 3iar (if that 1 bet wins, start over at 1)

3b) Same as 2b.

Notes:

In extreme chop full of ZZs you may decide not to wait for a 2iar to start since you could miss aZZ run.

Starting mid shoe you have history to tell you which way to go with your secondary prog - on or against 3s.

You can stay on runs once on them but remember, you are only trying to get to 5.

Thats about all there is to BaS40.

so this shoe all 3s have gone to 4s+, your secondary prog should go OTR after 3iars not ATR after 3iars.

Jerryczy,

Thanks. I knew there was something I was missing on that and you described it.

I'll redo the shoe and repost on Wednesday.

Thanks.

MVS

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If anyone did this in a casino they would be laughed right out of the casino.. It appears you've taken an already overly complex system and made it more of a mess.

Come on folks, the game isn't that hard. You don't need SIXTEEN columns of "counts" to know what to bet on.

And this isn't even all of the spreadsheet!:biggrin:

Vic, at this point I don't know What to bet on so I'm trying to explore all the options out there. I know I couldn't keep this up in the casino but I can keep 3 of the 4 counts on a scorecard at casino speeds right now.

What would you recommend we do?

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All,

OK, here's the promised "updated" Sugar House shoe done in BaS40 as corrected by "several" people to me.

Once again, if we need to change this, let me know and I'll get it done. We have to nail down these three plays if we're going to make any progress. Once they are finalized, I'll post all three plays (S40M1, BaS40 and BaOTB4L) in one clean thread for reference.

I'll make my feeble attempt at BaOTB4L tomorrow, I hope. If anyone else would like to post up what they believe is the correct play for BaOTB4L, be my guest and we'll all correct or OK it so we can move on.

Once again, any questions or corrections on this particular shoe, please speak up.

MVS (Always ready to learn)

i-kqgJ2mS-XL.jpg

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Couple of questions please.

At hand 6 you bet player, shouldn't this have been under banker (betting the 3iar goes to 4)?

At hand 43 you bet banker for the 3iar to go 4 and lost but then you immediately started betting S40 at hand 44. I think this was because the run ended and you went right back to S40 as explained above?

BaS40 (high 1's on the tote board or high 1's and 2s) (Same as S40 except for your secondary prog.)

Objective: +5 units

Best to wait for a 2iar to start and about ten plays

1.) Bet a 1,2 up as you lose primary prog on opposites. (You can only lose your primary prog to a 3iar or a 4iar when starting after a 2iar.)

2a) If most of the 3s have gone to 4 start your secondary prog 12358 directly under the 3iar If that 1 bet wins, wait for the run to end and start over.

2b) If it loses start over but after the next 3 your secondary prog is up to a 2 bet. (12358) up as you lose after 3iars.

3.) If most of the 3s so far stayed 3, start your primary prog opposite the 3iar (if that 1 bet wins, start over at 1)

3b) Same as 2b.

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Couple of questions please.

At hand 6 you bet player, shouldn't this have been under banker (betting the 3iar goes to 4)?

Steve,

Thanks for asking up. Here goes my best "explanation" of the play.

At hand 6 I had no data on 3's or 4's so just assumed it would stop at 3 THE FIRST TIME. Notice at hand 22 we did make the change to follow the "3" because it had already happened previously.

At hand 43 you bet banker for the 3iar to go 4 and lost but then you immediately started betting S40 at hand 44. I think this was because the run ended and you went right back to S40 as explained above?

Yes, the previous runs had all gone 3+ so the call was to continue with that. When it lost, you go right back into the Opposites play starting at 1 unit.

Also notice that at hand 49 the wager was for the "3" to go to "4" because of the number of times it already did that. Notice the only "3" streak in that shoe was at hands 40-42.

If everyone reading this thread who may be involved agrees, we can move on to the BaOTB4L play and get that one mapped out.

Once again, if anyone tracked down and copied the play, post it up here or PM me and I'll run it on this same shoe so we can all see how to play it correctly.

We've nailed down two of them, let's get the third one down!

MVS

Edited by MVSeahog
Atrocious grammar correction
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All,

OK, here's the promised "updated" Sugar House shoe done in BaS40 as corrected by "several" people to me.

Once again, if we need to change this, let me know and I'll get it done. We have to nail down these three plays if we're going to make any progress. Once they are finalized, I'll post all three plays (S40M1, BaS40 and BaOTB4L) in one clean thread for reference.

I'll make my feeble attempt at BaOTB4L tomorrow, I hope. If anyone else would like to post up what they believe is the correct play for BaOTB4L, be my guest and we'll all correct or OK it so we can move on.

Once again, any questions or corrections on this particular shoe, please speak up.

MVS (Always ready to learn)

i-kqgJ2mS-XL.jpg

Actually you were playing S40 M2 which is exactly what you SHOULD have been playing given all the 2s. You can't play S40M1 in a shoe high in 2s. EVER!

Note that ALL of your OTR bets were winning. After the first OTR bet at play 6, which should have been a 1 bet on B, confirming M2, your OTR bets should have been 3s. The question was what to do after the OTR bet wins??? It wins at play 7 so you make a second OTR bet until you hit the first 4iar. Then you stay OTR for only the 1 bet until the first 5iar. Then you stay OTR for 2 bets until the 4iar (play 49). But note that EVERY first OTR bet won because there were NO 3s.

Why don't you give this shoe another shot S40M2. It's a very easy +10 or more played precisely to your manual. If you can't get it on the 2nd try I'll play it for you. Yes, you could play it 2Hi like you did - but not when EVERY first OTR bet is winning. There are times when 2Hi just doesn't cut it when you are winning ALL of your initial OTR bets.

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All,

OK, here's the promised "updated" Sugar House shoe done in BaS40 as corrected by "several" people to me.

Once again, if we need to change this, let me know and I'll get it done. We have to nail down these three plays if we're going to make any progress. Once they are finalized, I'll post all three plays (S40M1, BaS40 and BaOTB4L) in one clean thread for reference.

I'll make my feeble attempt at BaOTB4L tomorrow, I hope. If anyone else would like to post up what they believe is the correct play for BaOTB4L, be my guest and we'll all correct or OK it so we can move on.

Once again, any questions or corrections on this particular shoe, please speak up.

MVS (Always ready to learn)

i-kqgJ2mS-XL.jpg

MVS,

This BaS40 is great. Look forward to your BaOTB4L version.

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Actually you were playing S40 M2 which is exactly what you SHOULD have been playing given all the 2s. You can't play S40M1 in a shoe high in 2s. EVER!

Note that ALL of your OTR bets were winning. After the first OTR bet at play 6, which should have been a 1 bet on B, confirming M2, your OTR bets should have been 3s. The question was what to do after the OTR bet wins??? It wins at play 7 so you make a second OTR bet until you hit the first 4iar. Then you stay OTR for only the 1 bet until the first 5iar. Then you stay OTR for 2 bets until the 4iar (play 49). But note that EVERY first OTR bet won because there were NO 3s.

Why don't you give this shoe another shot S40M2. It's a very easy +10 or more played precisely to your manual. If you can't get it on the 2nd try I'll play it for you. Yes, you could play it 2Hi like you did - but not when EVERY first OTR bet is winning. There are times when 2Hi just doesn't cut it when you are winning ALL of your initial OTR bets.

So are you saying that BaS40 is the same as S40M2 but with the secondary betting progression?

BaS40 (high 1's on the tote board or high 1's and 2s) (Same as S40 except for your secondary prog.)

Objective: +5 units

Best to wait for a 2iar to start and about ten plays

1.) Bet a 1,2 up as you lose primary prog on opposites. (You can only lose your primary prog to a 3iar or a 4iar when starting after a 2iar.)

2a) If most of the 3s have gone to 4 start your secondary prog 12358 directly under the 3iar If that 1 bet wins, wait for the run to end and start over.

2b) If it loses start over but after the next 3 your secondary prog is up to a 2 bet. (12358) up as you lose after 3iars.

3.) If most of the 3s so far stayed 3, start your primary prog opposite the 3iar (if that 1 bet wins, start over at 1)

3b) Same as 2b.

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Actually you were playing S40 M2 which is exactly what you SHOULD have been playing given all the 2s. You can't play S40M1 in a shoe high in 2s. EVER!

Note that ALL of your OTR bets were winning. After the first OTR bet at play 6, which should have been a 1 bet on B, confirming M2, your OTR bets should have been 3s. The question was what to do after the OTR bet wins??? It wins at play 7 so you make a second OTR bet until you hit the first 4iar. Then you stay OTR for only the 1 bet until the first 5iar. Then you stay OTR for 2 bets until the 4iar (play 49). But note that EVERY first OTR bet won because there were NO 3s.

Why don't you give this shoe another shot S40M2. It's a very easy +10 or more played precisely to your manual. If you can't get it on the 2nd try I'll play it for you. Yes, you could play it 2Hi like you did - but not when EVERY first OTR bet is winning. There are times when 2Hi just doesn't cut it when you are winning ALL of your initial OTR bets.

Chief,

The object of this play is not to try to win the shoe. The object here is to try to post up a shoe (The Sugar House shoe) and play it completely through using the appropriate rules of the play. S40M1, BaS40, S40M2, BaOTB4L.

Right now we've got everybody playing four plays six different ways and I was hoping to get everybody on the same page so we can all move forward IN SYNC!!

There was no attempt to change system plays in either shoe demonstration. It was strictly an exercise in playing one method all the way through the shoe to show the various combinations that come up. If we can nail down all three (or four) primary plays, this will really help out a lot of people, including me!

As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, once we do have them "nailed down" we can make a new thread with only the sample play in it so it can be referrenced by everyone as needed. Does that sound like a good plan?

MVS

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