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How to achieve a 100% win rate with MDB!


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"Right. I'm just not 100% sure that all were from that one Vegas trip because Norm was also playing the Gulf coast and Florida.

By the way, I ran into Norm 3 or 4 days into that Vegas trip. He dropped in on our Seminar. At that point he was $170,000 up for the trip! Norm paved the way for all of us."

That is amazing Norm only played 2Hi.

That is correct. I don't think that is best but that is how he played. Norm had 0 bets too but he didn't use them to dictate the direction of a secondary prog like we do. Norm was at the last step in the million dollar schedule. He had some missteps along the way as PJ will tell you but it was 3 steps forward and one step back and 3 steps forward. So the missteps only slowed him down a little but never got the best of him.

I think our use of the 0 bet is much stronger. And I think our very occassional 3 bet will have a VERY high hit rate.

Norm had a lot of input into our current MDB and we all need to thank him for that. He showed us first hand that it CAN be done!

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Ellis, thanks for posting the shoe with play by plays. Hope to see more.

I understand how the "0" bet is mechanical and tells you exactly how to play the SP, but I'm still not sure of the "mechanical" decision making when it comes to switching systems in relation to the SAP counts. Do you switch right away when one count goes higher then another? If the 1's and 2's have a high SAP count we are playing S40. So when the 3 SAP count passes the 1 and 2's count would we switch right away on the next hand to OTB4L? The switching seems more of a subjective rather then a mechanical decision. Can you please give us some "mechanical" rules for switching such as the "0" bet for the SP? Thanks.

All good questions Bobby!

When you first start the shoe you are mostly interested in what is high:

1's = BaS40

2s = OTB4L

3+ = BaS40M1

But very soon after you start up you are interested in the highest two SAP counts

1's and 2s = BaS40 very strong

2s and 3s = BaOTB4L very strong

3s and 4+s = BaS40M1 very strong

1's and 3s = a weak BaS40M1 see dean's shoe #1

1's and 4+ = a strong BaS40M1 see Dean's shoe #2 played BaS40M1

2s and 4+ = a weak BaOTB4L

And that covers the whole waterfront.

Usually 2 out of 3 and sometimes 3 out of 3 systems will win

So we are looking for the FASTEST way to get to +5

Currently we are looking at play 15 as the deciding factor as to whether or not to go for more than +5

That is assuming you started at play 2. If not, it's 15 plays from wherever you started.

I'm wondering if maybe I'm being too tight about that. Maybe it should be 20???

I think our best bet is to change systems as soon as SAP shows a new high or even a new 2nd high.

But I think we also need to consider up and coming counts on the move. That's our early warning that the shoe is changing. So is our score.

On the other hand we need to think twice about changing from a system that is winning soundly.

The thing is practice. Practice makes perfect.

But I'd like to point something out here.

No one has yet posted a shoe that loses to the overall MDB concept. And most, more than one system wins. Some were tough and some were easy but they all won so far. That has to be a good sign.

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newbacplayer
All good questions Bobby!

When you first start the shoe you are mostly interested in what is high:

1's = BaS40

2s = OTB4L

3+ = BaS40M1

But very soon after you start up you are interested in the highest two SAP counts

1's and 2s = BaS40 very strong

2s and 3s = BaOTB4L very strong

3s and 4+s = BaS40M1 very strong

1's and 3s = a weak BaS40M1 see dean's shoe #1

1's and 4+ = a strong BaS40M1 see Dean's shoe #2 played BaS40M1

2s and 4+ = a weak BaOTB4L

And that covers the whole waterfront.

Usually 2 out of 3 and sometimes 3 out of 3 systems will win

So we are looking for the FASTEST way to get to +5

Currently we are looking at play 15 as the deciding factor as to whether or not to go for more than +5

That is assuming you started at play 2. If not, it's 15 plays from wherever you started.

I'm wondering if maybe I'm being too tight about that. Maybe it should be 20???

I think our best bet is to change systems as soon as SAP shows a new high or even a new 2nd high.

But I think we also need to consider up and coming counts on the move. That's our early warning that the shoe is changing. So is our score.

On the other hand we need to think twice about changing from a system that is winning soundly.

The thing is practice. Practice makes perfect.

But I'd like to point something out here.

No one has yet posted a shoe that loses to the overall MDB concept. And most, more than one system wins. Some were tough and some were easy but they all won so far. That has to be a good sign.

Ellis: I know you've been busy, and I so appreciate the play by play shoes you've posted so far!! Thanks. As I mentioned a few posts ago, this particular shoe was a challenge due to a three followed by a six followed by two twos [then the P5 split across the two lines]. I'm new to applying SAP, but this particular combination was a challenge for me partly due to the losses up front. I would welcome your ideas and comments. Greg

B13622114

P13143125

P1

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way2fast, do you have any Vegas shoes we could play? I'd like to play some we KNOW are preshuffled. All I would need is our short hand format.

Ellis, I was away for a few days. If you are still looking for some Vegas shoes, here are a few pulled from my cards at random. All four are from early May and are pre-shuffled cards at a major strip property. I have not (yet) re-played them with MDB, but I will put them out there in case you find some good teaching examples in here somewhere:

#1

P211212326

P111111216212

#2

B211415231

P111111321422

B1

#3

B1114112162

B222111122141

B12522512

B123211

#4

P211133221121

B3132311222

P11133141113

B11211

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Ellis: I know you've been busy, and I so appreciate the play by play shoes you've posted so far!! Thanks. As I mentioned a few posts ago, this particular shoe was a challenge due to a three followed by a six followed by two twos [then the P5 split across the two lines]. I'm new to applying SAP, but this particular combination was a challenge for me partly due to the losses up front. I would welcome your ideas and comments. Greg

B13622114

P13143125

P1

Hi Greg.Well this is obviously a regular cards shoe. You see a big difference between your shoe and the 4 preshuffled shoes that way2fast posted.

#1

P211212326

P111111216212

#2

B211415231

P111111321422

B1

#3

B1114112162

B222111122141

B12522512

B123211

#4

P211133221121

B3132311222

P11133141113

B11211

I don't think any of the 3 +5 systems can do much with this shoe, maybe +2 or so. Yet it is highly playable from a follow the shoe standpoint. When you are playing regular cards you need to be alert for strong biases. If you start with BaS40 you run into immediate trouble. You would likely switch to S40M1 at hand 6 which calls for a 0 bet at hand 7. At that point you need to notice that you have twice as many repeats as opposites very very early in the shoe. This is a very strong repeat bias. S40M1 calls for repeats at that point anyway and at hand 10 you have 7 repeats vs 2 opposites - a strong exploit situation!

I would not only go to straight repeats, I would also upgrade my betting to exploit status - U1D1M2.`If you do that after hand 7 you'll see that you score an easy +20 in only two columns with a highest bet of 5.

While ordinarily we don't like high bets, recognize that with U1D1M2, the higher your highest bet, the more you win as long as the bias is strong enough to get you back to a 1 bet. In this case, the OR count gets to -11 in only 2 cols. - an exceptionally strong bias.

+5 does not like strong biases. It likes mild biases and no biases (random). So, particularly with regular cards, we need to be alert to very strong biases - and when we see them we need to play them. This half shoe has 25 repeats vs only 15 opposites - a highly exploitable situation!

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Ellis, I was away for a few days. If you are still looking for some Vegas shoes, here are a few pulled from my cards at random. All four are from early May and are pre-shuffled cards at a major strip property. I have not (yet) re-played them with MDB, but I will put them out there in case you find some good teaching examples in here somewhere:

#1

P211212326

P111111216212

Ok, here is how I played out shoe #1. image2014_05_27_10_56_040001.pdf

You could possibly have switched to BaOTB4L after play 13, but I don't like to switch immediately and it works out, because you would have been triggered to switch right back to BaS40 after play 23. You would still have finished ok if you had made the two switches, but you do better without switching in this particular shoe.

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Quizzical1
Ok, here is how I played out shoe #1. [ATTACH]2997[/ATTACH]

You could possibly have switched to BaOTB4L after play 13, but I don't like to switch immediately and it works out, because you would have been triggered to switch right back to BaS40 after play 23. You would still have finished ok if you had made the two switches, but you do better without switching in this particular shoe.

Yeah, I got a high of +7 at hand 39 switching systems (BaOTB4L at hand 14 then to BaS40 at hand 24) as the counts changed.

Now that begs the question: How long should you wait before switching systems when the counts change indicating to do so?

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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Now that begs the question: How long should you wait before switching systems when the counts change indicating to do so?

This is a tough question I am finding. Here is shoe #2 from way2fast's post #79.

image2014_05_27_13_18_540001.pdf

You can see the shoe trending from BaS40 to BaS40M1 to BaOTB4L and that's all in the first column and then it changes quickly back to BaS40M1. I never could get anything going too good. Got to high of +4 and kept going but it turned around on me as I worked it. I didn't make the change to BaOTB4L in the first column, I just don't like changing that many times so quickly, and it worked in my favor starting the second column, but it just couldn't carry through to a +5.

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Quizzical1
This is a tough question I am finding. Here is shoe #2 from way2fast's post #79.

[ATTACH]2998[/ATTACH]

You can see the shoe trending from BaS40 to BaS40M1 to BaOTB4L and that's all in the first column and then it changes quickly back to BaS40M1. I never could get anything going too good. Got to high of +4 and kept going but it turned around on me as I worked it. I didn't make the change to BaOTB4L in the first column, I just don't like changing that many times so quickly, and it worked in my favor starting the second column, but it just couldn't carry through to a +5.

Excellent job, Gman - as usual.

This seems to be the "sticky wicket" requiring additional discussion. If played purely mechanically, you could potentially get yourself into trouble switching strictly when the SAP counts indicate.

Any SAP veterans out there who already conquered this? Ellis? Papa Joe?

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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You can see the shoe trending from BaS40 to BaS40M1 to BaOTB4L and that's all in the first column and then it changes quickly back to BaS40M1. I never could get anything going too good. Got to high of +4 and kept going but it turned around on me as I worked it. I didn't make the change to BaOTB4L in the first column, I just don't like changing that many times so quickly, and it worked in my favor starting the second column, but it just couldn't carry through to a +5.

Thanks Gman. I play this shoe the same way with BaS40.

Regarding the switching, I would not have switched to OTBL at play 13. Yes, the SAP counts say that 2s and 3s are high. But at that point the events, in my opinion, still favor S40. What I mean is that prior to the 3iar, there have been three 1s and three 2s. S40 wins 1 unit on a 1iar and wins 1 unit on a 2iar. OTBL breaks even on the 1s but wins 2 units on the 2iar. I would not switch from S40 to OTBL (or vice versa) at the FIRST sign of a 3iar. I do like the idea of using SAP to help with system selection, and I am still experimenting with it on practice shoes. But I see it as an indication of what is happenning, not necessarily a mechanical answer to the question of what system to switch to each time there is a new event -- especially early in the shoe where just one event can give you a completely different answer. Now, we could get into a discussion of weighted vs. non-weighted SAP counts -- but if we open THAT can of worms we will get sidetracked from the MDB objective for many weeks. My current opinion is we can use weighted SAP to get the best RELATIVE comparison of the events, but in doing so need to accept that early in the shoe one might need to apply some judgement/experience and not blindly follow the SAP numbers.

In case anyone is interested, when I played this shoe live in the casino, I started on play 11 with my 2hi version of OTBL, and exited after play 17 where I went from +5 to +4. Prior to MDB, I was using strict 1/2 decade MM in Vegas once getting to +5.

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Here is how I played way2fast’s shoe #3. image2014_05_27_15_58_110001.pdf

Man, this one was tricky and kept you hanging around till the bitter end. It had several system changes following SAP. Here’s what I did.

I started BsS40 at play 2.

Switched to BaS40M1 at play 9. After play 8 the SAP count was 3,0,0,4, which was telling me BaS40M1.

Played that all the way through play 23 where the SAP count was now 6,6,0,8. It’s still a toss up with the tie between the 1’s and 2’s, but the 2’s were trending up quickly going 2-4-6 in just 5 plays, so I gave more weight to the 2’s trend and decided to switch to BaOTB4L.

Played that through play 30, where the SAP count was now 9,10,0,8. This quickly developing 1’s trend along with high 2’s told me to switch to BaS40 the next play. So at play 31 that is what I did and played it all the way through play 51.

I didn’t go back OTR after the ATR loss at play 47 because the last run was only a 4iar so I just started back the BaS40 primary progression at play 48.

At play 40 the SAP count had higher 2’s and 4’s but the 4’s had just jumped once in over 25 plays so I didn’t see a reason to change just yet.

At play 51, the SAP count was now 13,18,0,16. The 2’s and 4’s were trending up at this point so I decided to switch back to BaOTB4L. SAP count continued to trend higher 2’s and 4’s so I stayed with BaOTB4L through the rest of the shoe.

Probably should have gotten off the run at play 58, since the last run was only a 5iar, but that only cost me one unit.

Never got below -2 and finally hit +5 in the fourth column. The shoe finished at +7 but I’d have been out as soon as I hit that +5 at play 65 in the fourth column and been a pretty happy camper. Downside is the shoe had 21 units won on Banker, so the commission would have eaten up a whole unit of profit. But still a winner.

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Here is how I played way2fast’s shoe #4.image2014_05_27_16_30_520001.pdf

Started at play 2 with BaS40. I only bet 1 unit until a win, which is why the 1 bet at play 3.

Played BaS40 through play 12.

After play 12, the SAP count was 3,2,8,0. Now, based on Ellis’ rules in post #77, since 1’s and 3’s are high, it points to a weak BaS40M1 shoe. Personally when I see two 3iar’s that early I’m more inclined to play OTB4L, so that is what I switched to at play 13. I played the rest of the shoe out that way and the SAP count continued to show high 2’s and 3’s the rest of the shoe.

I hit the +5 in the third column at play 50, and if I’m that deep in the shoe I would quit there. I played it out for demonstration and the shoe ends -3.

The 1’s came on strong the last 10 or 11 plays and I probably should have switched back to BaS40 at around play 58. But I’d have been out of the shoe by then with a +5.

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Here is how I played way2fast’s shoe #4.[ATTACH]3000[/ATTACH]

Started at play 2 with BaS40. I only bet 1 unit until a win, which is why the 1 bet at play 3.

Played BaS40 through play 12.

After play 12, the SAP count was 3,2,8,0. Now, based on Ellis’ rules in post #77, since 1’s and 3’s are high, it points to a weak BaS40M1 shoe. Personally when I see two 3iar’s that early I’m more inclined to play OTB4L, so that is what I switched to at play 13. I played the rest of the shoe out that way and the SAP count continued to show high 2’s and 3’s the rest of the shoe.

I hit the +5 in the third column at play 50, and if I’m that deep in the shoe I would quit there. I played it out for demonstration and the shoe ends -3.

The 1’s came on strong the last 10 or 11 plays and I probably should have switched back to BaS40 at around play 58. But I’d have been out of the shoe by then with a +5.

Gman, I personally like your decision to go to OTBL at play 13. The 2s and 3s in the shoe to that point suggest that is the right move. Please have a look though at your play at #42. I think you mistakenly treated the 3iar as a 4iar. After loosing the 1 bet at #41, #42 should be a 2 unit bet on bank. That results in several differences throughout the third column (for example, #45 becomes a loosing 2 unit secondary progression bet on player instead of a winning 2 unit bet on banker). In fact, we would never reach the +5 win that you mention. Interestingly, I still finish the shoe the same as you, -3 -- but there is no good exit point at a profit. My final SAP counts are 17,16,32,8. I will post my shoe as soon as I can, but have a look and see if you agree.

Maybe it would have been better to do to S40M1 at play 13 -- don't know, I haven't played that out yet. Is this shoe not beatable with MDB?

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Hi Gman,

Can I ask what is your STOP LOSS point when playing MDB?

Regards Lou.

Here is how I played way2fast’s shoe #4.[ATTACH]3000[/ATTACH]

Started at play 2 with BaS40. I only bet 1 unit until a win, which is why the 1 bet at play 3.

Played BaS40 through play 12.

After play 12, the SAP count was 3,2,8,0. Now, based on Ellis’ rules in post #77, since 1’s and 3’s are high, it points to a weak BaS40M1 shoe. Personally when I see two 3iar’s that early I’m more inclined to play OTB4L, so that is what I switched to at play 13. I played the rest of the shoe out that way and the SAP count continued to show high 2’s and 3’s the rest of the shoe.

I hit the +5 in the third column at play 50, and if I’m that deep in the shoe I would quit there. I played it out for demonstration and the shoe ends -3.

The 1’s came on strong the last 10 or 11 plays and I probably should have switched back to BaS40 at around play 58. But I’d have been out of the shoe by then with a +5.

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Excellent job, Gman - as usual.

This seems to be the "sticky wicket" requiring additional discussion. If played purely mechanically, you could potentially get yourself into trouble switching strictly when the SAP counts indicate.

Any SAP veterans out there who already conquered this? Ellis? Papa Joe?

Yes, I played those 4 shoes yesterday W/O even doing the SAP counts. But you can look at our short cut version (the way way2fast posted them) and pretty much see the SAP count.

gman is correct. Shoes 1,2 and 3, I stuck with BaS40. But shoe 4 is different and we had to go to BaOTB4L.

Starting at Play 2, BaS40 hit +5 in the first shoe at play #8. In the 2nd shoe at play #24, and in the 3rd shoe at play #28.

But correct, the 4th shoe was a different animal. In the first col it has 4 2s and 2 3s - decidedly BaOTB4L.

It was a great exercise playing preshuffled. These are exactly the kind of shoes we face in Vegas.

They clearly demonstrate that yes you can do OK just sticking to BaS40 - maybe about a 70% win rate which is already way higher than any other player in the casino.

BUT, if you can learn to let SAP dictate what system to switch to it is almost never wrong and you can achieve a much higher win rate. I don't know, maybe 90 - 95%. It certainly did well with these 4 preshuffled shoes.

Lou, as far as stop loss is concerned, I'm thinking -5 looks pretty sound. There might be occassions where we might see fit to cheat a little but I think they are pretty rare.

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Quizzical1

Time for a stupid question or two:

1. Is there a general guideline to follow for when it's a good idea to move off BaS40 to another system?

2. When switching systems do the secondary progs carry over or are they reset and start over with new system?

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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Guys, going back to the question of should we stay at 1 unit bets until we win a hand???

Recognize that staying at 1 unit is not compatible with starting at play 2.

Starting at play 2, it is our 1,2 prog that gives us a 75% chance of winning our first prog.

If we stick to 1 bets, we are reduced to 50%.

Both ways are fine but if we limit ourselves to 1 bets, I think we should wait for SAP to tell us what to start with - about hand 6 or 7 or so.

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Time for a stupid question or two:

1. Is there a general guideline to follow for when it's a good idea to move off BaS40 to another system?

2. When switching systems do the secondary progs carry over or are they reset and start over with new system?

2.) Lets take 2. first. Yes, whenever you switch, pending secondary progs reset to 0. That is one of your main reasons to switch.

1.) From post 77 I think it was:

When you first start the shoe you are mostly interested in what is high:

1's = BaS40

2s = OTB4L

3+ = BaS40M1

But very soon after you start up you are interested in the highest two SAP counts

1's and 2s = BaS40 very strong

2s and 3s = BaOTB4L very strong

3s and 4+s = BaS40M1 very strong

1's and 3s = a weak BaS40M1 see dean's shoe #1

1's and 4+ = a strong BaS40M1 see Dean's shoe #2 played BaS40M1

2s and 4+ = a weak BaOTB4L

Glenn, I think we are generally best off to switch as soon as SAP tells us to when things are going down hill..

On the other hand, I think we need to be a little reluctant to switch from a system that is winning soundly.

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Quizzical1
2.) Lets take 2. first. Yes, whenever you switch, pending secondary progs reset to 0. That is one of your main reasons to switch.

1.) From post 77 I think it was:

When you first start the shoe you are mostly interested in what is high:

1's = BaS40

2s = OTB4L

3+ = BaS40M1

But very soon after you start up you are interested in the highest two SAP counts

1's and 2s = BaS40 very strong

2s and 3s = BaOTB4L very strong

3s and 4+s = BaS40M1 very strong

1's and 3s = a weak BaS40M1 see dean's shoe #1

1's and 4+ = a strong BaS40M1 see Dean's shoe #2 played BaS40M1

2s and 4+ = a weak BaOTB4L

Glenn, I think we are generally best off to switch as soon as SAP tells us to when things are going down hill..

On the other hand, I think we need to be a little reluctant to switch from a system that is winning soundly.

Makes perfect sense - thank you, Ellis.

Just curious (and yes, another stupid question LOL), for SAP, I get the weighting of the 1's (=1), 2's (=2) and 3's (=4), but why aren't the 4's weighted as 8?

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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Hi Gman,

Can I ask what is your STOP LOSS point when playing MDB?

Regards Lou.

Lou, I try to stay with the -5 stop loss. You see that I hit it in that #4 shoe. In live play, I probably would have gotten out, especially when facing a two bet. I just played the shoe out for practice.

One thing I'm struggling with in my practice of MDB +5 is that I seem to hit -4 and -5 often, but when I continue to play, I almost always seem to finally get to +5. And when I do hit -4 or -5 it rarely goes any lower. I know I've only worked a small number of shoes in the grand scheme of things, but I've worked a lot and that is what I keep running up against. I'm afraid this is going to tempt me to press that -5 stop loss a little bit.

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Gman, I personally like your decision to go to OTBL at play 13. The 2s and 3s in the shoe to that point suggest that is the right move. Please have a look though at your play at #42. I think you mistakenly treated the 3iar as a 4iar. After loosing the 1 bet at #41, #42 should be a 2 unit bet on bank. That results in several differences throughout the third column (for example, #45 becomes a loosing 2 unit secondary progression bet on player instead of a winning 2 unit bet on banker). In fact, we would never reach the +5 win that you mention. Interestingly, I still finish the shoe the same as you, -3 -- but there is no good exit point at a profit. My final SAP counts are 17,16,32,8. I will post my shoe as soon as I can, but have a look and see if you agree.

Maybe it would have been better to do to S40M1 at play 13 -- don't know, I haven't played that out yet. Is this shoe not beatable with MDB?

Yep you are correct. I screwed that play up at 42. I occasionally make a mistake when moving to a new column. I made that BaOTB4L bet at play 42 as a repeat because I thought the last two plays were an opposite, but they weren't. It does make a difference and the shoe doesn't work out as well.

I still get the SAP count I show, looks like we are off on the 3s and 4's.

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kshatria

I've been experimenting with a way to utilize SAP and system selection, and I'm interested in your thoughts. Watch the three main system counts (1 & 2, 2 & 3, 1 & 4) closely. The base system is whatever two counts are highest (e.g. 1s and 2s high = BaS40, 2s and 3s high = BaOTBL). Whenever the sum of two counts is 1/2 the sum of the other counts, switch to that system until you lose a bet and the ratio is back under 1/2 the other counts - when this happens, switch back to base system.

When you hit +5, you can continue to play but you reset all counts to zero and play as though it were a new shoe (I think this means you would not continue to play if you were already past play 30 or so)

What do you think?

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Thanks

Yes I have found that in most of the shoes in practice as well,I know it makes no sense to play a -8 S/L with a +5 S/W but for NOW I am staying open mind for the S/L margin depending on the flow of the shoe.I am also going off the third zero get out rule if the shoe is going bad.

Regards Lou.

Lou, I try to stay with the -5 stop loss. You see that I hit it in that #4 shoe. In live play, I probably would have gotten out, especially when facing a two bet. I just played the shoe out for practice.

One thing I'm struggling with in my practice of MDB +5 is that I seem to hit -4 and -5 often, but when I continue to play, I almost always seem to finally get to +5. And when I do hit -4 or -5 it rarely goes any lower. I know I've only worked a small number of shoes in the grand scheme of things, but I've worked a lot and that is what I keep running up against. I'm afraid this is going to tempt me to press that -5 stop loss a little bit.

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Lou, I try to stay with the -5 stop loss. You see that I hit it in that #4 shoe. In live play, I probably would have gotten out, especially when facing a two bet. I just played the shoe out for practice.

One thing I'm struggling with in my practice of MDB +5 is that I seem to hit -4 and -5 often, but when I continue to play, I almost always seem to finally get to +5. And when I do hit -4 or -5 it rarely goes any lower. I know I've only worked a small number of shoes in the grand scheme of things, but I've worked a lot and that is what I keep running up against. I'm afraid this is going to tempt me to press that -5 stop loss a little bit.

I have been at or close to -5 in practise and in live play most of the time.

My latest theory on this topic is that if we don't take our stop losses seriously in practise , we are less likely to take them seriously

in live play. After all we see in practise that -5 isn't the end of the world, and more often than not we can recover by playing

perfectly.

Having said said that, I have gone past -5 in the casino, using flat bets until a lost 2 bet won't put me at -5 or lower and recovered everytime (not that many times and despite not playing perfectly).

My next thought is that when we are trying to recover , flat betting may be counterproductive.

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