Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Ellis,

Would it be simpler to drop the losing side instead of switching? and then return to net-betting after a win? with a 1 under the circle and a 2 on the other side? just spitballing :)

It would be simpler yes and that is the way we usually do it. Dropping a side works great in streak but NOT in chop. In chop, when you drop a side chances are it would have hit. But in streak, chances are better that it would NOT have hit. Therefore the key is to only drop a side in streak but not in chop.

The way I have it right now it either breaks even or wins every event except long straight runs. I can correct the runs with a mandatory 2 at the expense of performance in chop. So I want to see what happens if we drop a side after 3 losses. That will hurt us in a shoe high in 3s but it helps us with 4 or mores and of course it makes our day should we get a long straight run. I'm looking for a way to get around 3s unscathed. That's not easy when restricting ourselves to 2 H1. We might want to borrow a page from MDB+ and only react to 3s after we've seen 2 of them.

There are several ways to skin that cat. But I want a way that is simple and melds in with the rest of our rules. I'm trying to avoid relying on any counts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 73
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Ellis, when playing at an online site such as BlackOrchid, there is no rule that you have to make bets but the live video feed will "time out" or stop after about three minutes due to "inactivity" and eventually if there are no bets placed it will automatically log you off. When the live feed video stops all you have to do is click your mouse where the video feed is to activate the live video again. Or I place a bet and then remove it right away every few minutes to keep the feed going. So you can go a whole shoe without making a bet and just watch but you have to click on the video feed every few minutes just to keep it active. At least that's how I do it in "fun" mode with the free play money to practice.

Good Bobby! That's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. I think it's about the same with Bet Phoenix.

We need to be having a discussion how to manipulate these on line sites to our best advantage.

Whether we like it or not, on line casinos are taking over the industry at an alarming rate. I think we are watching the beginning of the end of brick and mortar casinos.

Edited by Ellis
Link to post
Share on other sites
Ellis, when playing at an online site such as BlackOrchid, there is no rule that you have to make bets but the live video feed will "time out" or stop after about three minutes due to "inactivity" and eventually if there are no bets placed it will automatically log you off. When the live feed video stops all you have to do is click your mouse where the video feed is to activate the live video again. Or I place a bet and then remove it right away every few minutes to keep the feed going. So you can go a whole shoe without making a bet and just watch but you have to click on the video feed every few minutes just to keep it active. At least that's how I do it in "fun" mode with the free play money to practice.

Same as my experience at SportBet (same feed as BlackOrchid). If you really want you can bet both sides at the same time and then you only end up paying commission if Banker wins.

Link to post
Share on other sites
It would be simpler yes and that is the way we usually do it. Dropping a side works great in streak but NOT in chop. In chop, when you drop a side chances are it would have hit. But in streak, chances are better that it would NOT have hit. Therefore the key is to only drop a side in streak but not in chop.

The way I have it right now it either breaks even or wins every event except long straight runs. I can correct the runs with a mandatory 2 at the expense of performance in chop. So I want to see what happens if we drop a side after 3 losses. That will hurt us in a shoe high in 3s but it helps us with 4 or mores and of course it makes our day should we get a long straight run. I'm looking for a way to get around 3s unscathed. That's not easy when restricting ourselves to 2 H1. We might want to borrow a page from MDB+ and only react to 3s after we've seen 2 of them.

There are several ways to skin that cat. But I want a way that is simple and melds in with the rest of our rules. I'm trying to avoid relying on any counts.

Ellis, just a thought here after reading where you are at with this development. In the interest of keeping it simple, for the long streaks, is there a logical place where we can stop betting and just accept a loss of "x" units on a streak longer than "y"? If in fact you have something that beats every event other than a long streak, I am happy to bank the units on all the events and take a known loss on the fewer long streaks. Of course, it is a tradeoff, and depends on what the loss is on the streak, and how long it goes before we are on a loss. This is a similar concept to how I used to polay OTBL -- go 2hi and then sytop and wait. It allowed a known win or loss on every event which resulted in more winning tables than losing ones.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Ha, I haven't given you any rules yet. But you are thinking like a designer. We allow 3 bets under a 2 when needed before switching sides. TTs are not a problem. We win every bet on ZZs and pick up most of our units on them. A mandatory 2 takes care of runs but I'm looking to see if other options might be better.

I might post a couple of different variations so you guys can help me decide the BEST way. But I'm hoping to avoid that.

What is impressing me is the number of units this thing can generate with such low betting.

But one thing you guys can help me with: Most real casinos these days allow you unlimited no bets.

But on line, different casinos have different policies.

I'd like to know more about these policies.

How many no bets do they allow in a game and does it matter what stakes you are playing?

One way I played this thing does very well but has a LOT of no bets.

Another way I played it has very few no bets and scores higher. You are risking more units but still never betting more than 2.

Some of you guys have played MDB+ on line which has even more no bets.

Have any of you been kicked off for not betting often enough?

Not that this system is only for on line. It's for ALL shoes.

But I'm wondering if we need a special way to play it on line that won't get us kicked off???

Sorry but I don't have much on line experience.

Hi,

I play online at what used to be Bet Phoenix. I got an email from them a few months back and they changed me over to Bogart Casino. It is still bet phoenix and a live dealer casino but the link is Bogart. They only allow 2 no bets before they boot me off for not betting so the only way to stay on and not bet is by betting both sides and paying commission when banker hits. That sucks but that is the only way to not get booted off and when you get booted off for not betting you can't log back in for 15 minutes. Bummer!

Ellis, I'm sorry things have been so hectic for you lately, I hope you get all that resolved soon!

I was wondering as I'm sure a lot others are if you have had any time at all to work out any more rules or details on this betting method? I have tried to use what you have posted on some practice shoes but then I don't know what to do when I get into certain situations without a complete set of rules. For instance, I'm going along and I have 2 loses so I switch the progression from one side to the other, then after the switch I lose 2 more so I lost a 1 2 on player so I bet the 3 on banker after switching sides and the 1 on player. I lose the banker bet so I'm at 4 on banker and I should be at 1 on player but I raise it to 2 on player so I'm only betting 2 on the actual bet. I lose the 4 on banker so now I've lost a 1,2 on player and a 3,4 on the other side after switching. Now I'm at 5 on player after switching the progressions. Do I put a 3 bet on banker now to keep the actual bet at 2? I'm sure I need to reset something or I have the rules all wrong or something but a couple of shoes posted would sure help me to see what I'm doing wrong.

Any help would be sincerely appreciated as I will finally have a chance to play at a brick and mortar casino over the holidays and I would really love to give this method a shot.

Thanks and Happy Holidays to everyone!

Jim

Link to post
Share on other sites
Several have been asking for a progress report and have offered to help test.

I'm not sure what to call this yet so I'll simply call it MDB 2Hi Net Bet.

First, it does not rely on any kind of bias like NOR does

And it does not rely on random cards either like MDB+

And it does not rely on P and B running near equal like regular PvB Net Bet.

Therefore, as near as I can tell at this time, it simply doesn't care where a shoe comes from,

what type of cards are used - regular or preshuffled, or how new or how old the cards are.

For instance, I just played the very tough shoe that MVS posted from an on line casino.

P 3112111322143512212

B 2121152111151112162

Total 75 plays that finishes at a 0 OR count.

Is has very close to the mathematical norm for all events;

19 1's

11 2s

3 3s

5 4+s

Also the ZZ and TT runs are very close to normal

I started at play 2 (I used our normal net bet "start a side under its first circle" rule.

My worst position was +1 and my highest position was + 11.

I finished at +7 but I would have quit either when I hit +11 for the second time 8 plays from the end of the shoe

or, even more likely when I hit +10 for the 2nd time, 10 plays before the shoe ended.

At that point I had 20 no bets

46 1 bets

and only 3 2 bets (in fact there were only 3 3 entries in the entire shoe played to the end)

for a total of 52 units bet and a 19.2 % Player Advantage.

So this is, by far, the most conservative system I have ever designed! It even bets less than flat betting every hand at 1 unit.

You might be thinking that MDB+ usually bets less than 52 units in a shoe.

Well yes, it usually does BUT MDB+ has a hi bet of 4 whereas this NB 2Hi has a high bet of only 2 and very few of those.

This gets very exciting when you think of it in terms of our million dollar play schedule.

That schedule needs us to average +6 or even only +5.

In this shoe, I was already at +6 at play 19! And I hit +5 already at play 11!

It does even better in chopier shoes.

So you might be thinking WHY don't I go ahead and release it???

Because there is still an important question.....

When should we use and when should we NOT use a mandatory 2: follow ALL 1 entries with a 2.

For instance: I played the above shoe and got those performance numbers with NO mandatory 2 at all. It did real wel.

BUT when I play the same shoe the same way except WITH a mandatory 2, it goes all the way to +19!

So you first thought might be:

Fine! let's play a mandatory 2!

Well it's not that simple:

The streakier a shoe is the more it likes the Mandatory 2.

BUT, the chopier a shoe is the LESS it likes a Mandatory 2.

So again your first thought would be :

Fine, we play M2 in a minus OR count and no M2 in a plus count.

And that might very well end up being the best way to do it. I'm sure that would give us VERY good overall performance.

Another way is to bring in the mandatory 2 at a certain run length such as after a run goes 3.

But that is where I'm at.

Hi Ellis,

I understand that is the holidays and unfortunately you have had some personal issues to deal with so there has been almost a month of delay to making any progress with the new MDB 2Hi Net Bet.

I have been working on duplicating your results based on the shoe above and the rules as they have been written so far but I have not been able to get the same results even by play 11 where you had a score of +5. If you could either post your old shoe or tell us what the entries were on each side so we could try to figure out how to work the system it would be wonderful! Anything you could write on this thread would be very much appreciated by everyone!

I hope things are going better for you and you can get back to this thread and we can all help to get the rules figured out.

Best Regards and Happy New Year to you and everyone here on the forum.

Jim

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Guys,

Been looking at this new system of play and testing a few things on paper. This new system works fine on almost any type of shoe except when a lot of 2's are together. So maybe a good trigger to switch to OTB4L is when there has been 2 confirmed 2's. Then maybe switching back to Ultimate when 2 other events are confirmed.

Also, I'm thinking that 1-1-2-3 progression may work well and looking at least a +10 units as a goal. I will continue to test this with the shoes I have to see the results I get. If anyone wishes to also try this and comment, it would help.

Let me know what you guys think.

Hi Ellis,

I understand that is the holidays and unfortunately you have had some personal issues to deal with so there has been almost a month of delay to making any progress with the new MDB 2Hi Net Bet.

I have been working on duplicating your results based on the shoe above and the rules as they have been written so far but I have not been able to get the same results even by play 11 where you had a score of +5. If you could either post your old shoe or tell us what the entries were on each side so we could try to figure out how to work the system it would be wonderful! Anything you could write on this thread would be very much appreciated by everyone!

I hope things are going better for you and you can get back to this thread and we can all help to get the rules figured out.

Best Regards and Happy New Year to you and everyone here on the forum.

Jim

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more findings when testing. I have found that when using a U1D2M2 progression if any side has 2 losing entries under a 1 bet twice in a row, then that could result in a possible losing game. Usually the lone 1 bet or the last 1 bet of a ZZ should also count with the original rules for Ultimate.

If you see this occurrence, just be careful and opt to either stop play or play for the next half decade or even. Hope this helps.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Some more findings when testing. I have found that when using a U1D2M2 progression if any side has 2 losing entries under a 1 bet twice in a row, then that could result in a possible losing game. Usually the lone 1 bet or the last 1 bet of a ZZ should also count with the original rules for Ultimate.

If you see this occurrence, just be careful and opt to either stop play or play for the next half decade or even. Hope this helps.

I don't think Ultimate NB, the way it is described in the thread, is the answer. A 2Hi system which wins most events, and is able to not hurt you too much (i.e., by a growing progression) in the losing events sounds like a better proposition. The drawdowns in Ultimate are too big -- not surprising considering bets as high as 6 units are called for.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think Ultimate NB, the way it is described in the thread, is the answer. A 2Hi system which wins most events, and is able to not hurt you too much (i.e., by a growing progression) in the losing events sounds like a better proposition. The drawdowns in Ultimate are too big -- not surprising considering bets as high as 6 units are called for.

I agree about the drawdown with U1D2M2. Maybe the thing we can do is work on the optimal bet placement for the system to see if there are better rules and then add an optimal progression for 2Hi. I will simulate various progressions using only 2Hi with the existing rules and see where the rules can be changed when a shoe begins to loses to specific events. I think that having one system that can handle all types of shoes would be advantageous to all of us here at BTC.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the whole point is to keep it 2hi. I remember Ellis saying he was working on what could be several variations. It would be alright by me to have a conservative version and a more aggressive version. Plenty of ways to skin that cat. Members can pick a version that suits their playing style. It's not going to win every event/shoe. I just hope he's still working on it and has some help. Plenty of volunteers here at BTC :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

TJFILES and myself have asked Ellis , or anyone else , a couple of times as to where the progress is with MDB 2 Hi .

Not even a simple responce from Ellis ? Such as, "still working on" ! Maybe he has not seen us asking , sometimes this thread is backgrounded by other MDB postings . Looks like this potential method , like others , that have started out looking great , just disappear and never addressed again ! One that comes to mind ....Internet Play....nothing on that lately ! It was hot and heavy there for awhile........than no further discussion !!

Maybe its just me ? Or do others agree ?

thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhh THANKS BigHorn for responding......I hesitated to post , did not want to come across as negative or a pain in the butt ! :)

And thought , maybe its just me feeling that way ! :)

I also , check the thread couple times a day .

Wish I could contribute to the method...but I'm just not smart enough , so thats why I paid the big bucks to learn from Ellis and others here !

Norm , was "The Man" , when it came to the 2 Hi ! Would love to have met him and watched him play ! Maybe Papa Joe , could add something here and his take on MDB 2 Hi . Believe he and Norm at times played together and were friends ?

Thanks !

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use