how to beat this shoes

[Guest]

I'm on board for a purchase, can I lock that price in now? ;-)

Consider it locked bluetri and thanks for the vote of confidence.

I'm convinced that most members still don't get the overall picture of NOR.

The origional manual does not include years of refinement, additions and improvement.

Steve's attempts were welcome but they also fall short of presenting the overall picture in one all inclusive coordinated place.

For instance, I assumed everyone would know to bet Repeats in a Repeat shoe.

But I've been playing this game since its inception in the U.S. They haven't.

That was about the 6th obvious Repeat shoe various guys posted because they didn't know how to play it.

They didn't know because its not even in the manual - no mention of it at all.

Yet Repeat shoes come up very often, especially weekend nights when most of our members play.

They look at every shoe as if it were the first shoe of Adam and came out of thin air.

I look at every shoe as a continuation of THAT casino at THAT time at THAT table with THOSE cards.

Keith got thrown out of Hollywood, PA yesterday! He got thrown out for doing what I taught him to do.

He won every Bac shoe by playing the right NOR system. Fine, no casino is going to throw you out for that.

But then he noted the BJ conditions were perfect - no more than 3 players at any table. 3 players can't clump the cards.

They WILL be random.

Hollywood has a $400 table limit - small time.

Look you simply can't lose at BJ playing basic strategy from 3rd base against random cards with a 146 progression.

I proved that over 30+ years. Keith proved it again yesterday!

He played $20, $80, $120. That quickly draws attention against a $400 limit.

Keith won every shoe doing exactly what I taught him,

in the very same conditions I taught him to look for.

And when you beat BOTH games soundly, well, watch out.

He was soon paid a visit by the Casino MGR..............

Casinos don't like players who obviously know what they are doing, whether Bac or BJ.

Never played BJ before? Don't know Basic Strategy?

Fine! I can still teach you how to win in a way even better than Basic Strategy.

All you have to know is ONE thing: What was the last card dealt out of the shoe?

Think you can keep track of THAT?

THAT decides EVERYTHING! Works even better than Basic Strategy.

Yeah, I know, I'm writing a Bac manual, not a BJ manual.

Look, you have TWO choices:

Which table should I play?

Which system should I play?

And you need to know BOTH BEFORE you sit down!

THAT is how a Pro does it.

But Keith and I have an advantage over you:

We have a THIRD choice:

Which game should I play?

There are certain conditions that commonly come up in BJ every day.

That present a can't lose situation IF you know what to do.

I didn't know Basic Strategy either when I first started.

But I STILL won every day because I knew TWO things:

How to recognize a can't lose situation.

How to play according to ONE thing only - the last card dealt.

It is even more accurate than Basic Strategy.

So right, it's a Bac Manual.

But it's also a manual about recognizing can't lose situations.

So I can't resist throwing in a couple paragraphs about BJ.

That's all that's needed.

My formula works!

I've been thrown out of nearly every casino in the land

playing that same two paragraph formula!

Hell, Keith and I and Ron, Doc, and Suzanne and Marty

Got thrown out of Black Hawk.

Never heard of Black Hawk? Ha, we have cause we got thrown out for winning every single shoe.

Black Hawk is in the middle of nowhere in Colorado.

But the casino owner was very nice about it.

"Look guys, we are an amateur casino and you guys are Pros!

We can't afford you guys playing any more BJ

But, we can treat you to the best dinner you can get in these parts -

if you will kindly stop playing.

BTW, how the hell did you beat every single shoe?"

I couldn't resist replying: "Easy - I could see the hole card in the dealer's fingernail polish!"

All hell broke lose over that! The owner immediately sent the dealer to the ladies room!

We went to dinner. The dinner was great!

So yep, I can't resist throwing in a couple paragraphs about BJ.

But mainly, the probem I see is Most guys here still can't play NOR to its full potential.

BECAUSE they've never seen all of NOR in one place at one time

With sample games and play by plays.

They are missing the overall picture.

I KNOW that from the questions and comments I get.

And yes, you can stretch the delays in MDB+ to cover NOR and NOR+ situations somewhat.

BUT, is that the BEST thing to do?

You weaken your stance in random situations to cover situations already better covered by NOR.

Yes, way2fast did a great job of showing you how to make +4 in a Repeat situation.

Great! Except if you play Repeats in that Repeat situation - you are at +30 already at play 23.

You don't bring a knife to a gun fight. You bring a bigger gun.

Repeat situations are the best situations in Baccarat IF you recognize them.

Nobody noticed that shoe started with twice as many repeasts as opposites.

When EVERYBODY should have noticed that immediately.

Hell, it started with 6 repeats vs 1 opposite.

That's a sore thumb if I ever saw one.

And I'm betting that table was Streaky BEFORE that shoe ever came up.

A streaky table is defined by high repeats.

So you bet repeats and watch 1's closely.

If 1's are high, you slip into TB4L.

If not, you stick with repeats.

I don't care how good MDB+ is.

You don't play MDB+ in a repeat shoe.

MDB+ is a great 4 or 5 unit system.

But NOR+ is a 20 unit system in a NOR+ situation.

And every shoe ever dealt is one or the other.

It's either Biased or it's Random.

And if you don't already know automatically from the table conditions.

SAP tells you in no uncertain terms.

The goal of my intended manual is NOT to show you a way to play Baccarat

It's intention is to show you how to excel in Baccarat

How to recognize the conditions you face WHATEVER they are,

And how to take advantage of the situation at hand - whatever it is.

THAT is professional Baccarat.

But to learn it, you need to see everything in one place at one time WITH examples.

The WHOLE picture!

I think under the circumstances I face, WE face, which I have little control over,

Such a manual is the best contribution I can make.

The only question is, will you guys make my efforts worthwhile???

If so, I'll do it. A hard cover all encompassing Baccarat manual on NOR+, MDB+ and SAP.

With a few winning BJ tips thrown in. $500 per copy.

But it's a BIG task. So I need to know. Do I do this - or not???

[Guest]

I really admire you Mr Davis,

If only I stay nearby USA, I have to pay visit and see the master face to face.

You should have blog about your Journey as Professional Player.

It will inspiring people like me.

I enjoyed watching movie with Casino background,

not just hollywood movie, Hongkong and other Country.

Your wisdom really great.

I feel so lucky find this forum.

Epstein, you are a gentleman and do your race proud.

I hate to be the one to tell you this but look,

NOR is not for you. NOR is a U.S. regular cards approach to Baccarat.

It works great here! But Hongkong - not so much.

You need to be playing MDB+ by my origional rules because you face

factory preshuffled cards in Hongkong and MDB+ has already proven itself in Hongkong and throughout Asia.

But you paid for NOR not knowing it won't do you much good in your part of the world.

While MDB+ was designed exactly for your situation.

So OK here's the deal: For your efforts, I'll talk to Keith and get you comped to MDB+.

But I want something in return:

First, study MDB+ by my origional rules until you know it perfectly. It's not hard.

But next, since your English is so good

I want to see some reports on your play.

Is that a deal?

[Guest]

I'm in Ellis. Would be nice to have a hard copy .Easier to drag around and read without having to turn on the computer or lap-top. And besides,I'm a faithful follower .

[brad01]

hi ellis count me in. hopefully will be an enjoyable task for you knowing all your greatest tricks will end up in the hands of your most loyal followers in order to btc for years to come!

And you get payed for it!

[trillion]

I would absolutely be a buyer of an all encompassing NOR manual with all of these additional topic is a must have for all baccarat players looking to improve there game and defeat any casino where you play.

I am looking for any advantage that I can have prior to sitting down to any baccarat tables.

Start writing this manual as I cannot wait to have this manual in my hands to read and absorb all of this additional information to make everyone a more confident player in there attack on my area of the Midwest.

[waminc]

Count me in, Ellis. I think a complete manual of successful bac systems( I prefer to call them approaches) would be invaluable.

I hardly ever post anymore but check the forum out regularly to see what new ideas are being discussed. I still remember our meeting in Tunica, 2008 I believe, where you, PJ, Zebra, and I tried out SKOR in a casino for the first time. You and PJ won 20 out of 20 shoes (both of you "cheated and took advantage of a couple of TBL exploits. Zebra won 18, making some adjustments on the fly which became known as SKORz, and I won 16 following the established rules for SKOR. We met in Tunica a couple of months later and barely broke even, finding many weaknesses in SKOR. Our breaks in the VIP lounge and the opportunity to listen to your analyses of Bac in general and your insight has remained with me. Unfortunately I've never been able to take advantage of any of your "seminars, internet talks, etc." since. I think the manual you want to put together would be invaluable, and probably for many years to come.

Bill

[ECD]

Of course, I'm in. A comprehensive manual of Baccarat by Ellis for only $500. A no brainer.

[TheOne]

Hi Ellis. The answer to your question is a BIG yes. This is great.

[Pando]

Hi Ellis

YES count me in too

regards

Pando

[kingstar]

Hi Ellis,

Count me in too. Looking foward to it

[Ntrl9]

Hi Ellis-

First and foremost I hope you're around for a long time. I know it must be a daunting and thankless job keeping up with the forum and answering the same questions over and over.

I can only speak for myself but I know there must be others out there like myself that have a great deal of gratitude for what you do. I know my bac game is a heck of a lot better since joining the forum and learning the approaches you teach.

That being said- What happens to those of us that already paid for U2hi that never got off the ground? I love the idea of a comprehensive book that has all the info we need in one place. I am definitely in, but I do feel that those of us that already paid for U2hi should get a credit towards the next system/book that is released.

Again I thank you and all the contributors (that "donate" their time day in and day out) for all that you do and have done so over the years.

Ntrl9

[Pamela Conkey]

Hi Ellis, I'm in, just let us all know when and where to send the check.

Brain...

[Fedda]

Ellis, count me in but make sure the quality on the paper is good because this book is going to be well read!

[Jim Files]

Ellis,

I'm in as well, looking forward to a comprehensive all in one place treatise of some of your accumulated knowledge of baccarat and the casinos!

Best Regards,

Jim

[Guest]

Wow, what a huge vote of confidence! You know, just getting my spirits lifed seems to have a huge medical effect.

I feel better already!

And just in time too because I got more bad news yesterday:

They diagnosed me with skin cancer on my scalp, on top of everything else. When it rains, it pours.

The biopsy comes back in a week but I could tell, this team already knew. They also knew the rest of my medical situation..

So when they told me - I burst out laughing.

So the one doctor said, "Ellis, you seem to be taking this awfully well."

I said "well yeah because I've got one good thing going for me."

"What's that?"

"I'll never die of cancer!"

The whole team laughed.

You know, the traditional medical world has no answer for kidney disease.

Yeah, they have dialysis, but that's not a cure. It is merely a prolonger.

But there is a group of natural medical people up in Vancouver one of you guys told me about.

They have been getting good results with their forms of treatment.

Both for kidney disease and skin cancer. And they have invited me up.

So before I let them operate on my head, I think I'll make a swing up to Vancouver.

Like they said, if nothing else, it would make a nice vacation.

So, I've decided to fight this thing.

Anyway, back at the ranch, I've got another question for you guys.

You know, I've played tens of thousands of shoes in casinos over 30 some years..

So when something is amiss in a casino, I notice right away whether BJ or Bac.

For instance, when I played Harrahs, Tunica, I noticed over a couple days -

That Player and Bank were running impossibly close together - every single shoe!

You know, P vs B is tracked right there on the tote board.

So, I changed my strategy to net betting PvB and won every shoe thereafter.

Well Harrahs, Tunica was a factory cards casino. I say "was" because they are closed now.

Good riddance!

Anyway, Kevin- you all know Kevin, noticed the same thing playing factory cards in Vegas.

They were highly susceptible to PvB net betting.

In fact, that's why I can't get Kevin interested in MDB+.

He's already beating Vegas quite soundly.

Well, while I have plenty of experience playing casinos - both regular and factory cards.

I have comparitively zero experience on line.

And I realize a lot of you guys would like to have a way to beat on line casinos.

My problem is, I have no feel for the PvB ratio on line.

Regular cards, in casino, can go as high as 80 even 90% Player.

Strangely, you seldom see Bank go that high.

That is why Bank only systems do NOT work against regular cards no matter the length of your progressions.

As my Chicago friend finally learned the hard way in spite of my urgent warnings. $25,000 in winnings up in smoke!

So, I'm very interested in the PvB ratio on line.

But I have no experience.

But you guys, especially collectively, DO!

I'm highly interested to know what kind of PvB ratio you guys are seeing on line.

Because, if it is less than the regular cards ratio, certainly not as much less as factory cards,

But even just a little less, then I have a simple PvB net bet system that will beat them.

It already beats factory cards soundly, but regular cards - not as soundly but it does beat them.

See, yes, on line casinos use regular cards.

BUT they are oversize.

And size effects the shuffle.

And the shuffle decides EVERYTHING in Baccarat.

So I'm extremely interested in the on line Player vs Bank ratio.

I know you get shoes that favor Player and shoes that favor Bank.

What I DON'T know is do you ever get shoes that favor either Bank or Player in the extreme -

like 70% P or 70% B???

BECAUSE, if not, then I have a simple PvB net bet system for on line play.

The nemesis of PvB net betting is sporadic 1's.

But this system cleverly automatically avoids sporadic 1's altogether.

It's ONLY other nemesis is EXTREME P or B favoritism.

That's why I need to know about that. And I don't know - not yet - BUT

That's why I need your help.

I already know I'm going to include this clever PvB net bet system in the new manual.

Because it kills factory cards and beats most regular cards shoes.

But can I recommend it for on line play?

That all depends on how wild the PvB ratio gets on line.???

Common sense tells me the PvB on line ratio is less than - closer than regulat cards.

But I need something more than common sense. I need experienced opinion.

I simply don't have that experience.

But you guys DO.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Ellis

[Guest]

Oh, another thing about this PvB net bet system is it bets nearly every hand.

I know a lot of you guys don't like MDB+ because it bets so rarely.

And a lot of casinos simply won't let you do that.

But PvB net betting - not a problem!

2Hi betting - not a problem!

[LOU30]

Hi Ellis,

What kind of sample size do you need?

[Guest]

Oh, another thing - this is going to be a hard cover 3 ring binder manual shipped priority mail.

So I'm going to need your actual names and preferred mailing addresses.

Yes, you can use the PM system here

But a lot of guys don't like to publicize personal information.

So, my phone number is 901 405 1723.

I'm usually here but this project gives me an excuse to get a cell phone with that same number.

I can do that through Vonnage, and I will.

BTC ? While this is strictly a personal project, yes, I have a way in mind to cover BTC.

After all, they provided the opportunity for us all to write these posts.

And yes, I'll put up something on the public forum.

Did I miss any private forums?

I should probably put up several notifications on the various forums

to make sure I don't leave anybody out.

like Kevin - after all, this was HIS idea originally.

I was thinking of calling this manual: "Baccarat- The Final Word" - by Ellis.

But I don't know - do you think that's a little too morbid?

Edited June 12, 2015 by Ellis

[Guest]

Hi Ellis,

What kind of sample size do you need?

Thanks LOU! Not big. I'm thinking if I had 40 or so assorted on line games

just in our short cut fashion, I could see what I need to know.

In fact, If I could get them in PB fashiom that would be even better. you know, like PP BBB P B P BBB and so forth.

I mean, the more the better.

I'll test this system against all I get.

I've found that after 40 assorted test shoes, statistics don't change much.

By "assorted" I mean I don't want 40 shoes that came out of a casino one after the other.

It would be better if they were different casinos played on different days at different times.

But, I'll take whatever you've got.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Ellis

[LOU30]

No problem I will get some to you.

[Guest]

Guys, I'm going to put up a thread on the Public forum called "Baccarat - The Final Word" manual,

Where I can be sure I'm talking to everyone.

Everything I say will be valid for you members too

except the price.

For you guys the price is $500. You could call that an early bird special. I'll lock in all private members who siged up already or who sign up in the near future.

But once I'm ready to ship, I'll raise the member price to $600.

But for the public it will be higher, I don't know, what do you guys think?

$750? $1000?

If we were back in the '90s I'd say $3000 and actually get it by the hundreds.

But ordinary people had money back then.

Today - not so much.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Ellis

[Guest]

Skin cancer at 75! Can you imagine that?

I was a lifeguard already at 14 and stayed one all the way through college.

Hey, its steady very enjoyable Summer work with no expenses. I was a head lifeguard at 17

working for the City of Syracuse. Ha, now I'm paying for it.

I went from being a life guard one day to being a GE Engineer the next.

My uniform went from bathing suit to suit and tie.

But I've got to hand it to GE! No matter your schooling they put you through

their own Engineering school to get you licensed.

GE has the best and most up to date Engineering schooling in the world.

Once you've gone through GE's Engineering school you can ACE any engineering test any Corporation puts you through. Ha, I still remember when I took Diabold's engineering test. I got the highest score Diabold had ever seen.

Best thing that ever happened to me! Ha, but I digress.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Ellis

[William Looi]

Hi, I am new in NOR , baccarat shoe example play by Elis really help me to learn better, and I believe it will help new member improve also,

this shoe is from Malaysia casino Genting highland,

P 4111132111151211121331121443

most of Genting casino go 53 hands to 62 hands

I hope ur reply

thank you

[Guest]

Hi, I am new in NOR , baccarat shoe example play by Elis really help me to learn better, and I believe it will help new member improve also,

this shoe is from Malaysia casino Genting highland,

P 4111132111151211121331121443

most of Genting casino go 53 hands to 62 hands

I hope ur reply

thank you

Wow William, this looks like a designer shoe. It sounds like Genting highland might be 6 deck???

I don't know of any card Manufacturers that offer 6 deck preshuffled so I'm guessing regular cards.

Also since this shoe is so extremely biased toward TB4L, I'm guessing the prior shoes also favored TB4L.

Now some might see all those 1's and go S40. They will do fine if they quit before it turns streaky at the end.

But here's the thing. You've got to go by my System Selection table I posted. That table will also be prominent in my new manual.

That table says that high 3+s with high 1's is TB4L.

It also says that low 2s is always TB4L.

This shoe has both!

And TB4L has no modes - another good reason to choose TB4L.

Being this biased I'm going with an aggressive betting system.

3456 U1D2 would be my first choice but since I just posted one of those

I'll do your shoe in my 2nd choice - TB4L U1D2 M2 (mandatory 2 - always bet 2 after 1)

I may have jumped the gun on my first bet, but I usually do when a table is strongly favoring a certain system.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Ellis

[William Looi]

thanks very much, I should put in tb4l as my tool to beat the casino. this is another one of Genting shoe.

P141111311133138531212114

total 54 hands