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I just joined btc and must say that there is a wealth of baccarat info. I  read thru most of the threads and have a few questions. 

1.Modes

Besides OR counts, can we use SAP to determine mode? If yes, how?

2. 123, 234, 345, 123 4progressions

When are these progression applied? When you apply an mode otr or during the whole plays?

3. Otb4l otr

Does mode 2 or 3 or apply to otb4l?

4. Tbl

How do u play? After you lose one, u continue to tbl or apply mode?

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Hello Zeckam - welcome to forum

My answers to your questions are:

 

1. Modes - you can use SAP or any method you find works to determine modes. To use SAP to determine the mode to be in you would use MC (most common) event if you believed that event would keep coming OR alternatively you would use LC (least common) if you believed that it was due to start coming in

Modes assume consistency. The 2 opposing chains of thought in any form of bet selection is that whats coming will keep coming or opposingly whats just come cant keep coming

NOR as per the manual assumes whats coming will keep coming the whole shoe which quite frankly I and many others don't agree with

Read my post on 'last 3 event method'

Not to say NOR's not applicable - means you have to use the principles and adapt it to suit whats happening

For short term bias modes not required - for long term consistent bias modes are applicable.

 

2. These are up as you lose progressions meaning you are assuming your hit rate is so good you will seldom lose a progression like that.

If you lose a 1234 in my book you are done as that's 10 units

234 is a more aggressive in that your first bet wins net you 2 units instead of just one

345 even more aggressive

For when you are absolutely killing it

My advice: ALL BEGINNERS SHOULD START ON FLAT BET.

PROGRESSIONS ARE LIKE A CREDIT CARD - TAKE MONEY NOW AND YOU WILL PAY IT BACK LATER + SOME - FLAT BET IS LIKE CASH AND CASH IS KING

AS YOU GET BETTER YOU MAY USE THESE PROGRESSIONS IF YOU CHOOSE BUT TO USE THEM NOW WHEN YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THEM OR GAMBLING IS SUICIDE.

CANT WIN FLAT BETTING? GUESS WHAT YOUR HIT RATES WORSE THAN 50% THEN.

OTBL can be played in all modes - a mode is how many times you continue betting the approach you are on before you go on the run

mode 1 = 1 loss

mode 2 = 2 losses

mode 3 = 3 losses

and so on

OTBL is unique because you have to deal with 2 modes - Zig zags and Straights

PPBBPPBB - that's pure otbl

PPBB PPPPPPPP - that's a straight run of more than 4 - you want to get on the run for straights as soon as possible so use mode 2 usually

PPBB PBPBPB - theres pure OTBL with a long ZZ run - also use mode 2 for that

you work out when to apply mode 3 for both straight and ZZ

S40 and Repeat only deal with 1 type of mode

OTBL deals with 2 because its a neutral system in the middle of ZZ's and straights

4. Probably a better way to describe TBL is S40M1 - they are the same thing

It is always mode 1 or OTR after 1 loss

PBPB - you are betting opposites as S40 does

PBPBPP - you go OTR straight away as soon as you lose on any repeat - next bet is on player

 

Hope this answers your questions for now and keep reading and keep practising and keep asking questions.

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Using OR count to determine modes is once again based on the theory that what has come will keep coming

OR count being a count of opposites vs repeats it will generally show whether a shoe is streaky or choppy or neutral.

1212111 = OR = +4 or 6/2 = 4 more opposites than repeats so therefore one could assume if the shoe was to stay choppy you wouldn't expect many repeats so more likely there will be 3's than 4's. Therefore you could pick S40M3 which not put you OTR until a 4. BUT THERE IS NO GUARANTEE. IF BIASES ARE WHICH THEY ARE THEN A CHOPPY SHOE CAN TURN STREAKY WITHOUT WARNING.

Best way to determine modes for OTBL in my opinion is be able to recognise 4's for both straight and ZZ

Eg

2211242341122 - 4 straights and 4 ZZ = mode 3 for straight and ZZ

2262521111511111222 = 4+'s for straights and ZZ's = mode 2 for straight and ZZ's

22422224111112211124 = 4's for straight but 4+'s for ZZ's so mode 3 for straight and mode 2 for ZZ

22112365221122 = 4+'s for straight and 4's for ZZ so mode 2 for straight and mode 3 for ZZ's

You can also use EVENTS to select modes which is what I did here. Work out which events mean which modes for each system.

In terms of OR its also applicable - the movement of the count can be just as important s the count itself

A count can be (-) but the current trend can be choppy

Eg if the count is already - but the last 5 results have been -6, -5, -4, -3, -2 theres been 4 straight opposites but yet the count still shows -

So it can be deceiving

 

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Hi Brad

Is it always necessary to use 123 negative progressions to play these system or can we flat bet all the way? 

I find that if you don't use negative progressions you seem to end up breaking even. 

 

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10 hours ago, zeckam said:

Hi Brad

Is it always necessary to use 123 negative progressions to play these system or can we flat bet all the way? 

I find that if you don't use negative progressions you seem to end up breaking even. 

 

Hi Zeckam,

You could consider using a 121 2 progression .

In this particular version, only bet the second 2 bet if you win the second 1 bet.

ie. if LLW bet the 2 bet . If you win the 2bet (LLWw) you are even for the 4 bets

                                      if you lose the 2bet (LLWL) you are only down 4 units

       If you bet 121 1      If you win the  fourth bet ( 1 unit) you are down 1 unit for four bets

                                      if you lose the fourth bet (1 unit)  you are down 3 units for 4 bets

       If you lose all 4 bets  you are down 5 units.

        This is slightly more aggrssive than flat betting , but less aggreswive that 123

 

       The first 2 bet in the prog will often make you extra units. If you are continually losing that bet

        flat bet for a while in that shoe to see if the second bets start winning.

        LLL continue flat betting until you win and the look for another 121 2 opportunity  

You could first bet 121 and watch the next bet to see if it would have won,

then proceed to the 2 bet the next time  

Edited by Wendel
just checking
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Hi Zeckam ,

11 hours ago, zeckam said:

Hi Brad

Is it always necessary to use 123 negative progressions to play these system or can we flat bet all the way? 

I find that if you don't use negative progressions you seem to end up breaking even. 

 

AS you get more experienced you may find that your bet selection will improve and your wins will outnumber your losses  

If you set a suitable stop win you may pick up enough units to make flat betting NOR worthwhile. 

 

 

Edited by Wendel
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Its harder at the start but it forces you to get your hit rate up

A progression is like a credit card - get something now and pay it back + interest later

Flat bet is like cash in hand and cash is king

You want to take some wins now to make you feel like a winner use a progression but in a few weeks when your even you'll be asking how am I moving forward.

In a few weeks you'll probably be heaps better flat betting and that's whats gonna make you a better player long term.

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Good idea

Ftat bet is safe

1,2 negative is good if you know you are very likely to win 1 of the next 2

1,2,2 is not bad if you think you are likely to win at least 1 of next 3 and you will only come out 1 behind

Positive is good if you are very likely to win 2 in a row

1,2,2 positive is good if you are killing it

If you cant lose then just bet 2's until 1 or 2 losses

so many options to cover every situation using only 1 and 2 units.

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Thankss Brad for the advice.

Today  was playing s40 and encountered some play that I can also use otb4l as it has stronger 2s. I was wondering if I should switch to otb4l or continue w s40?

But I kept with S40because it is a 1s and 2s shoes but I have to risk the 2s negative progressions bet and win less. 

I also saw a mdb situation when the 6 2s went to a 3. Should I apply mdb in this bias 1 and 2 shoe where there is only one 4 and one three?

Please advise

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Well it would not be suited for the way the original manual was written as it assumes a consistent bias throughout and so you select a mode ad play it through

U1D1M2 will supposedly bulldoze you thru

In that case you are not relying on a high hit rate.

Alternative will be short term NOR setups without modes

S40 / opposites

OTBL

Repeats

Strong Side

Maybe TBL but I find that hard to determine in the short term

If you pick one of these biases and you flat bet to win 1 or 2 units and then wait till the next bias and start again or if you think the bias will give you at least 2 wins then go till a loss or until 2 consecutive losses

The aim is to go with the current short term bias and pick up a few wins and then wait for the change and move on

EG 1211121 - bet opposite for 1 or 2 wins or until 1 or 2 losses.

Most conservative is bet for 1 win or 1 loss and move on and wait for next boas

If you are always betting with the bias you should be better than 50%

  

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Many people busy playing.

Including myself

No problems ask anything.

I was where you are 1 year ago

Trust me practise hard and in 1 yr you will see things much more clearly.

 

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/15/2016 at 8:04 PM, brad01 said:

Well it would not be suited for the way the original manual was written as it assumes a consistent bias throughout and so you select a mode ad play it through

U1D1M2 will supposedly bulldoze you thru

In that case you are not relying on a high hit rate.

Alternative will be short term NOR setups without modes

S40 / opposites

OTBL

Repeats

Strong Side

Maybe TBL but I find that hard to determine in the short term

If you pick one of these biases and you flat bet to win 1 or 2 units and then wait till the next bias and start again or if you think the bias will give you at least 2 wins then go till a loss or until 2 consecutive losses

The aim is to go with the current short term bias and pick up a few wins and then wait for the change and move on

EG 1211121 - bet opposite for 1 or 2 wins or until 1 or 2 losses.

Most conservative is bet for 1 win or 1 loss and move on and wait for next boas

If you are always betting with the bias you should be better than 50%

  

Hi Brad Long time no see.

I recently started playing real games, NOR short term setups with SAP, mostly flat bet and even half bet when uncomfortable, very conservative way but it works for me. Played several sessions I am up so far. Still keep practicing and reading the post every day, busy working practicing and some playing.

I have read a lot of your valuable game tactics as well as other members in this forum. It's  been about 3 months for reading and practicing I think all the answers are here I have better understanding of the game and I can see it much more clearly now. Still long way to go but moving forward like stepping stones. While I am reading the post in the forum I decided to be a professional bac player. Once I get into the level up stage I consider quitting my job and will focus on playing game only. I am making decent money at work but I am burned out, inferior quality of work, etc. The long journey has begun. Life goes on, right?

I seldom write a post mostly reading let's keep in touch. 

Machine

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Hi Machine,

You have the right attitude and you are at the right place

It definitely can be done

I believe you are correct to start with NOR

I still use NOR as my basis for all BS (Bet Selection)

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