MvD...Does it work?

[ECD]

45 minutes ago, wolfat said:

BigChips,

Brad gave you advices you should put on stone...

I want to add something "practical" that could help you.

I guess, in the past, you jumped from a "winning" system to the next one and couldn't find the right one.

you know why? because it DOES NOT EXIST.

what you must do is this: as I think you have a ton of "good systems" to play, choose that one fits more your betting style, I mean, are you a conservative player? do you like more action? etc 

choose that one fitting more your style.

put yourself on a kitchen table and play MANUALLY at least hundred shoes.

analyze them after playing. check if you played well, what's went right or wrong, try to outline weaknesses and strengths.

after all this work I ASSURE YOU you will be a better player, you will be able to get in a good shoe and out from a bad one, EARLY, without depleting your bankroll.

Nothing can substitute MANUAL PRACTCE!

More, in general, read everything you can about bac to get new ideas for improvements BUT don't deviate from your path!

don't be afraid to share your ideas with good people here, you will receive more than you give.

I suggest you subscribing our premium membership and read my booklet about baccarat mindset, everyone read it appreciated it a lot!

NEVER GIVE UP!

A

 

Well said mate...Norm (RIP) took me in hand early in the piece when he saw me straying... He warned me about jumping from system to system and joining the throng of Ellis Groupies that swarm like bees around a honeypot jumping from one system to another in a never-ending search for the Holy Grail of Baccarat. He emphasised "Ellis designs and sells Systems...that's what he does...that's his business". Norm offered to teach me everything to do with his "Follow the Shoe" method but advised me to stick with what I was doing and concentrate on refining and improving what I was already doing. 

If you have something that is working for you, then don't go leaping all over the place looking for that HG...it isn't there. Work hard at what you already know and add tweaks as you go. 

Ellis's "Groupies" will continue searching and will continue to fall by the wayside because it ain't that easy. Think always of the three "D's'...It takes dedication...determination and the most important of all...DISCIPLINE to beat the Casino and if it was easy...there would be no casinos.

Also...it goes without saying...it also takes a helluva lot of DAMN hard work. For every hour I spend in the Casino, I spend at least two hours researching. That's what it takes.

[LOU30]

Here's a comment my wife said the other day " Look kids notice anything different about dinner tonight? What mum? Your dads here!" Sad isn't it ... Thats how much time I have been spending locked away in my office studying!!! I must remember I have a family too.

[wolfat]

Big Chip,

one more thing, when you get some experience with your method, and get confident with it,

remember to work on it, looking for improvements, refine and refine your play... it's a never ending job but you will get the inner satisfaction to be a winner at this game! not too much people on earth can do that!

IE, I'm playing VinSap working with a team of other 4 people. NOBODY play vinsap the same way... but we all score similarly!

get the point? you need to find your way, customizing what method fitting better your style and never stop working on it.

by the end, every time  it's always a 50% decision!

lol

A

[Sputnik]

On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎30 at 6:11 PM, BigChips said:

Maybe I am losing hope  or the casinos got smarter.  I don't know.   I have been playing this game for a very long time now, since the 1990's.  I have played every system Ellis has sold.  Even 4D.  Even MDB+.    You name it.  Every system   From 90s  up to his current mvd  and anti mvd    And even his newest  anb (advanced net betting)    And his most recent,  a week old,  S3 net betting.  They do work in the right shoes but,  not always the entire shoe.  Sometimes you play from begining of a shoe do well  sometimes not   Sometimes you enter at play 10, 20 or mid shoe do well,  sometimes you don't.  Sometimes triggers of any system work and sometimes they don't.   Sometimes delays on triggers work, sometimes they don't.   Sometimes various progs work, sometimes not.  Sometimes flat bets work, sometimes not.  Sometimes sap works, sometimes not.  Rsap  same thing.   So, I think I have opened and tried every door.  No more doors left to open.   Even betting certain strong signal/trigger bets work and sometimes not.  Sometimes follow shoe works, someetimes not.  Yes,  I have had many winning shoes and great days but,  at the end of each year I am NEVER ahead.  And I do use very strict discipline  and leave a table right away when I hit my stop loss.    Have tried many different stop losses, -3, -5, -6, -10.,etc     In the end,  each year, never ahead  and I have played MANY shoes and so many different casinos,  playing  weekly  many shoes weekly.   So, you can say zuma has been done over many times.   Even zuma testing,  same thing, in the end,  down not up even with very strict discipline and tight stop losses.  Online casinos same thing,   After so long in the end.....    hand shuffled or machine.   Pre-shuffled or not.  6 deck or 8 deck.  Same.     Help!   I need somebody. Help!  Not just anybody. H-E-L-P!!!!!!!!   To me there are no more solutions.  I don't want to give up  because I have invested so many years into this  and walking away after all those years would be such a waste.  Thank you everyone for listening.   Hopefully someone here knows something I don't  and maybe I can still turn this around and finally start  punishing these casino bastards back.

BigChips i understand where you coming from and i believe that is very common situation. I read different topics from three different professional players that live the life as gamblers. What i learn is that there is not one and same solution for all three, they have different style of tackle the game. So don't swallowing everything you read and keep in mind that you need to solve things into your own comfort zone.

Cheers

[Wendel]

On 3/30/2017 at 11:11 AM, BigChips said:

Maybe I am losing hope  or the casinos got smarter.  I don't know.   I have been playing this game for a very long time now, since the 1990's.  I have played every system Ellis has sold.  Even 4D.  Even MDB+.    You name it.  Every system   From 90s  up to his current mvd  and anti mvd    And even his newest  anb (advanced net betting)    And his most recent,  a week old,  S3 net betting.  They do work in the right shoes but,  not always the entire shoe.  Sometimes you play from begining of a shoe do well  sometimes not   Sometimes you enter at play 10, 20 or mid shoe do well,  sometimes you don't.  Sometimes triggers of any system work and sometimes they don't.   Sometimes delays on triggers work, sometimes they don't.   Sometimes various progs work, sometimes not.  Sometimes flat bets work, sometimes not.  Sometimes sap works, sometimes not.  Rsap  same thing.   So, I think I have opened and tried every door.  No more doors left to open.   Even betting certain strong signal/trigger bets work and sometimes not.  Sometimes follow shoe works, someetimes not.  Yes,  I have had many winning shoes and great days but,  at the end of each year I am NEVER ahead.  And I do use very strict discipline  and leave a table right away when I hit my stop loss.    Have tried many different stop losses, -3, -5, -6, -10.,etc     In the end,  each year, never ahead  and I have played MANY shoes and so many different casinos,  playing  weekly  many shoes weekly.   So, you can say zuma has been done over many times.   Even zuma testing,  same thing, in the end,  down not up even with very strict discipline and tight stop losses.  Online casinos same thing,   After so long in the end.....    hand shuffled or machine.   Pre-shuffled or not.  6 deck or 8 deck.  Same.     Help!   I need somebody. Help!  Not just anybody. H-E-L-P!!!!!!!!   To me there are no more solutions.  I don't want to give up  because I have invested so many years into this  and walking away after all those years would be such a waste.  Thank you everyone for listening.   Hopefully someone here knows something I don't  and maybe I can still turn this around and finally start  punishing these casino bastards back.

Hi Bigchips,

I saw no mention of stop wins in this post. I hope you are using realistic stop wins and getting out while you are ahead most of the time. As far as I know, it is very difficult to play complete shoes with any system.

For example, in NOR, Ellis recommends a stop loss of -8 and a stop win of +10 (proceed beyond 10 carefully.and quit if you go below 10). I think that he recognizes that there are "sweet spots" in most  shoes for most systems and when they end. It is best to just leave and keep your profits. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Wendel

[ECD]

7 minutes ago, Wendel said:

Hi Bigchips,

I saw no mention of stop wins in this post. I hope you are using realistic stop wins and getting out while you are ahead most of the time. As far as I know, it is very difficult to play complete shoes with any system.

For example, in NOR, Ellis recommends a stop loss of -8 and a stop win of +10 (proceed beyond 10 carefully.and quit if you go below 10). I think that he recognizes that there are "sweet spots" in most  shoes for most systems and when they end. It is best to just leave and keep your profits. 

The problem with a stop loss of -8 and a stop win at +10 is that you are swinging for the fences when a base hit up the middle would work (Pardon the baseball lingo).  It is good that you realize that you can't play complete shoes with any one system, so why do it.  If you know that the pulse of the shoe is changing, you are going to blow your winnings, or pile on the losing trying to figure out which method of play would best fit the shoe so why do it?  The more you realize that this game is played best when you get your +2, +3 and get out, and with a more realistic stop loss of -4 or -5 your could make that up in no time.  For me, it is more palatable to walk away with a lower stop loss. In my mind, a -10 is insurmountable.  Another problem is trying to get to +10.  If you are in a shoe where nothing is working for you and you have +10 on the brain there is a good chance you could lose your whole bankroll getting to +10 when you were hovering around +4 or 5 the entire shoe.  If you want to use one of Ellis' teaching use this one when he introduced MDB, "If you want to win big, you bet big with a smaller, more realistic win goal".   Go to SFP and play the Parx shoe that I put in.  Try to get to +10 in that shoe, then see how many times you can get to +1, +2 or +3. 

[Wendel]

4 minutes ago, McVince said:

The problem with a stop loss of -8 and a stop win at +10 is that you are swinging for the fences when a base hit up the middle would work (Pardon the baseball lingo).  It is good that you realize that you can't play complete shoes with any one system, so why do it.  If you know that the pulse of the shoe is changing, you are going to blow your winnings, or pile on the losing trying to figure out which method of play would best fit the shoe so why do it?  The more you realize that this game is played best when you get your +2, +3 and get out, and with a more realistic stop loss of -4 or -5 your could make that up in no time.  For me, it is more palatable to walk away with a lower stop loss. In my mind, a -10 is insurmountable.  Another problem is trying to get to +10.  If you are in a shoe where nothing is working for you and you have +10 on the brain there is a good chance you could lose your whole bankroll getting to +10 when you were hovering around +4 or 5 the entire shoe.  If you want to use one of Ellis' teaching use this one when he introduced MDB, "If you want to win big, you bet big with a smaller, more realistic win goal".   Go to SFP and play the Parx shoe that I put in.  Try to get to +10 in that shoe, then see how many times you can get to +1, +2 or +3. 

Hi McVince,

 You said it far better than I. I was really trying to get stop wins into the discussion, and the nor example was the first thing that came to mind.

Your treatment of the topic was great and probably well suited to Bigchips.

Thank you.

 

[brad01]

Hi big chips I am also flat better. Never use progression not even 1,2

dont worry about l w l w and slow grind

if u use 1,2 you immediately create deviation of possible 1,2 loss which is hard to recover from.

if l w l w  place less bets but focus to be more accurate.

just my opinion

[kachatz1]

On April 1, 2017 at 10:49 AM, BigChips said:

Thanks guys.   That was great!  I found the best max stop loss to be -3 or -4.    Stop wins?   I now start out flat betting st first,  after  choosing  the best,  most obvious tote board.    While flat betting  I mentally play prog, just incase  flat betting  can't get ahead like win, lose, win, lose.    A 1-2 prog wins.    So I only use progs if I have to.    When I am up 5 units,  flat betting I keep going but  at +5 units  if I lose the next bet,   I am back to +4   Quit that shoe and onto another table.   Sometimes I can get to +10 or +20 units.   Most times I end up quitting the shoe with an average of a 4-7 unit win    Selecting only the best tables   By the tote board   And mostly flat betting.    If  I have to use progs  and I am up 5 or 6 units,  I still quit with atleast 2 units win.   At +12 units   I do not leave table below 6 units win.  But,   I use  mostly flat betting  and only progs if I have to.    I don't use progs for exploit trying to win 30 units     I use it only if flat betting can't get ahead    Like W L W L     Or   L L W    First pattern   A 1-2 prog I use    Secong pattern I use a 1-2-4   Or a 1-1-3    Or find a better table.   I am happy to say  I am now winning  and doing much better!  Thank you everyone for all your help  

Ha!

Take a look back at BiG CHIPS' first post from just a few days ago ( early in this thread)...

Read it several times.

Several days later, and now this!

YOWZAH...the powerful forces of BTC at work...

Keith...a perfect example of just what is possible when Smart Minds get together...would make a great introduction for newbies to the forum, or especially for those " thinking to join" but on the fence....

 

[kachatz1]

Biggy-

 

Give me a call anytime 850-687-3128 LV time zone, and I will tell you exactly how I play 5D

And if you ever, ever hope to " play like a pro" , the  $50 you inv St today will be worth many, many times more in just a short time.

( what it will save you alone, by not making the same mistakes we all have is PRICELESS)

 

Kevin

Edited April 5, 2017 by kachatz1

[trbfla]

That's what I love about BTC is members helping members

[Pando]

Yes I agree trbfla

There are so many wonderful players on this forum, strength in numbers

Long may it continue

[Illinois Player]

On 3/22/2017 at 0:28 PM, way2fast said:

I think you pretty much got it.  Lol.

In another two months we will hit the two-year anniversary when he started soliciting payments for The Final Word.

And  2 years passed with  people coughing up  $750 for the book that was never written or shipped out to them but more money is charged for new systems like net betting or MvD while old commitments to deliver paid  for book are still not fulfilled. How do you call that? 

[trbfla]

19 hours ago, ArkSobo said:

And  2 years passed with  people coughing up  $750 for the book that was never written or shipped out to them but more money is charged for new systems like net betting or MvD while old commitments to deliver paid  for book are still not fulfilled. How do you call that? 

I think the word is not final yet

[ECD]

On 4/5/2017 at 0:46 AM, BigChips said:

I have to admit  I have been on many different forums and purchased many systems and manuals.   Yes, I have read every manual written by Ellis Davis but,   nothing compares to this forum and the people.   I think maybe I should join.    I am very interested  in what McSap is teaching  in the exclusive forum.    That would best suit me.   Flat betting   Then eventually for big units of $1,000 and more  winning just a couple of units a shoe.   McVince,  without giving anything away,  I would like to pick your brain a bit  and tell me more about your way of playing.  Kachats    also interested  in knowing more about the way you play without giving much away.   Thank you everyone

No problems.   Anytime.  

[trbfla]

On 4/7/2017 at 2:19 PM, trbfla said:

I think the word is not final yet

I stand corrected .....the final word is out and it's "invincible" . That's right with anor mvd and anb you too can be invisible to the actual way to win a shoe. But hey for another 750 you can reserve your spot early to become super invincible with anti anor anti mvd and anti anb but wait there's more...for 500 you can learn how to read a tote board by someone who spends his life inside a casino and plays daily...... but wait there's even more....for 250 you can learn the big road, another 250 you'll learn the small road another 250 the cockroach road, and then the sideways road, the bumpy road, the hilly road, the pothole road , the unpaved road......I can do this all day the scenic road, the road less traveled, the road under the road, the divided road, omg I see systems for the next 10 years.......one has to think that perhaps a mentor spending too much time in circus circus can truly be a bad thing 

[ECD]

On 4/7/2017 at 9:39 PM, BigChips said:

McVince   You mention  that mvd does work but,  not in the way it is intended?

Yes,  I think you can use it to ask yourself one question and one question only:

Using what you have seen in the past, will the 1 stay 1 or will it go to 2?  If you use the MvD rules to answer that one question, you can probably be successful at it.  

[Illinois Player]

On 4/7/2017 at 1:19 PM, trbfla said:

I think the word is not finished yet

So why not refund the money? 2 years is long enough to wait?

Or he could just finish it instead of selling new manuals and methods  while this one remains unfinished but with money collected already - so why bother...

[ECD]

Wow.  Thank you Big Chips.  I am flattered.  Keep up the good work. 

[ECD]

The majority of the feedback that I got was that the NOR part of the blend is not paying off.  I have got the same win % with and without it.  When I posted it on the forum, I welcomed criticism knowing that it isn't personal and I wanted others to see it to point out things (Good or Bad) that I am not seeing.  As far as everyone not playing it, some people don't see what I see or it doesn't fit into their style of play.  Some people want to bet more, some people want to win more units as opposed to leaving with a smaller win goal.  It works for me and some other people and I hope it works for you. 

[citibay]

I wish oz post this a few month earlier so I would have saved my 1500 bucks.

Edited April 10, 2017 by citibay

[ECD]

8 hours ago, citibay said:

I wish oz post this a few month earlier so I would have saved my 1500 bucks.

I am seriously sorry to hear that. I contemplated an earlier expos'e but thought better of trashing the reputation of the man responsible(partly) for me being where I am today. It was only after his "Arse Licker in Chief" Carlos the Wanker (not Jackal) came here on a spying mission (How very melodramatic...but true) that I changed my mind.

 

Ellis, no doubt has a brilliant Baccarat mind, but he is just one man and just like a Politician who surrounds himself with "YES" men...he has surrounded himself with "brown tonguers" that I wouldn't trust at a Baccarat Table with my Mother-in-Law's purse. Any dissent/discussion is met with instant "Banning" from the Forum as distinct from here at BTC where discussion is welcomed and indeed those helping to tweak already proven methods and help the members get up to speed are also proven performers at the tables..."Best of the Best" so to speak... way2fast, kazatch1, CT70, PJ (when he finds time), Vinnie, Wolfat, Brendan, Brad, Pando and others ...all winners at a game that the mathematicians say is unbeatable (Go tell my Accountant...LOL)

And Ellis has his "Searchers for The Holy Grail" ...and Dean, who knows less about Baccarat than my left testicle...famous for such truisms as  “Laws of Osmosis: The process of gradual or unconscious assimilation of ideas, knowledge, etc related to gambling.” WTF!...and this peanut...this know nothing about Baccarat... dared to try and trash the reputation of way2Fast...one of the best there is...a proven winner (and a genuinely nice guy who is willing to help all and sundry) That didn't end well did it Boofhead? Give yourself an uppercut.

The good news is that here...nobody makes outlandish promises offering the Holy Grail of Baccarat...No new "Best Ever" systems (at a small extra cover charge) cough...cough...  that you can learn in 5 mins, but a promise that there is information available at BTC and there are people here that will help guide you on your Baccarat journey, and with hard work...you too can become a "WINNER"  (Not to mention Stats for Profit...possibly the best practice system ever devised with REAL shoes in it's database...Machine Shuffled...Boxed and Hand shuffled...NOT RGN's)

I wish you luck on your journey whatever direction you choose to take

Again...Sorry about your $1500

 

OOPS...MY BAD...I didn't realise that you were already a Premium Member...but the rest of my Post still applies to those who are contemplating wasting their money on the search for the HG.

 

 OSMOSIS: THE PROCESS OF GRADUAL OR UNCONSCIOUS ASSIMILATION OF IDEAS, KNOWLEDGE, ETC RELATED TO GAMBLINGWS OF OSMOSIS: THE PROCESS OF GRADUAL OR UNCONSCIOUS ASSIMILATION OF IDEAS, KNOWLEDGE, ETC RELATED TO GAMBLING.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by ECD
Getting Old...

[trbfla]

well said oz

[avion]

It could not be said any better than what Oz shared.  

[Keith Smith]

By the way, in case anyone is reading this thread and confused, this "not delivering information that was paid for" is not about this forum but another forum. It is $50.00 bucks to join here and $20 bucks to join stats for profits.  With that said we are always looking for new member and need them to contribute new ideas and perspectives.  So consider joining us and all these fine people posting here. And some of you old timers who are too tight to cough up $50 bucks for the cause geez come on help us out in the premium forum,