Niki21

Hey Ellis, Nighshifter does have a lot of experience under different conditions. He talks about the count and seems to know how to adjust. Do you consider it would be worth to learn and practice the High Opt II system and mix it up with NBJ and WCB? By the way I'm back on the winning track. 3rd base strategy works fine where I am playing as long as you get out on track. I'm 12-4 in my last 16 outings including that infamous night that cut my earnings of that sequence in half.

Hi Ellis I did not know I was an exception in your group. I bought WCB right here at beatthecasino.com but I never got any audiotapes or any printed material. I have electronic access to my WCB ebook which I can't even download in my computer. I have no material at all and if by any chance this site would go away I would be left with nothing. Did I miss something? I have a Target 21 background (after giving up on card counting) which is practically all about searching winning tables and table departure signals. Is that similar to your «In search of»? However T21 doesn't say anything about enlightened card play. I've been practicing a lot in the past three months with a computer software that I won't name here but you know which one I'm talking about. It simulates real casino play, shuffle and pick-up procedures. The NBJ/WCB style of play is even incorporated in it. That software really helped me to become comfortable with WCB moves and betting strategies. I'm really stepping up to another level now and I feel like what I need most is experience and game management, not another book, I've read and reread so much stuff already. I even made some experiments of my own that I could probably publish since I have never seen anything written up on this but it's really not my intention. I used to be a head-to-head only player but I have to go Vegas to play those games. Now I don't mind driving two hours (only) to the nearest casino. I can take a day off every week play 1st or 3rd base with WCB and work on my consistency. I don't mind playing with other players now and thanks to WCB (and that software), I don't have to take a 10-day vacation to play blackjack. One thing that is great with a lot of practice is that it takes away the excitement of playing and that's a good thing. When you arrive to Vegas and you have not seen a deck of cards in six months, you tent to get too excited (and well it's Vegas!). Play to win! Don't play to play! Blackjack has to be seen as a business not a game. And I would love to watch you play one day Ellis. When and where would that be possible?

Different circumstances led me to play on a Saturday night and I usually try to avoid that but I get the point Ellis. I did not know you could not beat a Saturday night game because you said that at one point in your career you tried to play the toughest games to become a better player and you did. You also say in WCB that you virtually sit at any 2-3 player table? (I've read WCB not only a few tricks on the forum Ellis). Anyway, I'll play dirty from now on and go for the jugular only. Thanks! I also have to see that movie (Hustler). QUESTION 1 By the way my favorite pitt was closed on that infamous night (they usuallly open it at 7:30 PM). Ellis, do you consider that a normal Saturday night pit if only three players are sitting at a table that has been open for an hour or so? Does a table like this deserve a shot or not? QUESTION 2 I paid a fair price for World Class Blackjack (a truly outstanding program and the best that I know of in my $1500 blackjack library) which is quite an upgrade over NBJ according to at least one independent review that already had an excellent rating of NBJ. Why would I need to buy NBJ then? I don't understand that sales pitch (Ellis and Keith). Maybe I just need to refresh my mind with some parts of WCB. No? Best regards

Ellis, I would like to thank you personally for some of my most recent wins, but especially for my latest win, which I consider to be my best card play performance ever (except at my own style of head to head play) Oh I only won $500 which is quite below my best wins but the point is that I beat a difficult game under very bad conditions (crowded Friday night). I beat a highly clumped game playing 3rd base and had I used straight BS, I would have been killed. In less than one hour, I won 12 to 15 WCB hands, hitting stiffs against 5s and 6s but also standing on my stiffs against 10s in HTR rounds. I also played BS in random parts of the shoes. It seems I always made the right move. I was down $400 before I could get a good read and I made a $1000 upswing before losing a few hands and leaving the casino with $500 in one hour of play. The other players could not believe some of the moves I made. They were in awe. The guy at first base even started to duplicate my moves. At one point both he and I had identical hands (12 vs 5) and he asked me. «Do I take it or do you take it?» He took the card and got a 9 for 21. I opted to stay after his 9, a 10 came out and busted the dealer. Perfect. When I left, the guy at first base looked at me, smiled and shooked his head. He could not believe what he’d just seen. It was my 10th straight win but by far the most satisfying. I felt like… I was Ellis and would not have a losing day in the next three years. Unfortunately, there is a DOWNSIDE to this story. It happened the next night. Again, the conditions were difficult (crowded Saturday night) and table selection was very limited. I wish I could have played in the afternoon but I couldn’t. I was such on a good run (10 straight wins) and I was quite high after my Friday night win that I saw a challenge. I told myself I was going to win, that I could not lose. However, the games were bad and much more difficult to read. Furthermore it seems the dealer always had a better hand. If I had 17 he had 18, and if I had 19, he had 20. Once I had two $200 hands both 20 against 6 and the dealer pushed me. Double downs did not work that well and I did not split much. I started at $50 and after losing $1500, I played more aggressively with many hands over $100 and even $200 (sometimes two $200 hands). I almost made it back with a $1000 run and after staying around that point for a while, I took a dive and lost it all back to end up where my bankroll was a week ago. Then I realized I was not Ellis yet and I went home. QUESTION : Ellis, my goal is to win consistently and hopefully not to have a losing day in three years (like you) but I guess a 90% win rate would be satisfactory. I show very good discipline at not giving back money to the casino when I win but it’s when I lose that I tend to hang around too long. Where do you draw the line when things don’t work out. It’s tough to pack it in when you are confident. You can be your own worst enemy but you want to fight too. WHAT IS YOUR RULE? How can you win every day? I’m trying to find the right rule for me. I’m pretty cool at a blackjack table but I am now thinking that after three F-words, I should get out. Maybe even before.

That +-7 sounds like WBC to me Ellis (without counting) at least for one part. Bet up after one or two low rounds when the high cards started to fall at the end of the previous round. However how can that work reverse? High cards have been falling and the count is now -7. Now low cards begin to fall and the count moves up toward zero. How can you bet up and exploit that? The EITHER DIRECTION confuses me.

Thanks Ellis for the reply I truly appreciate your time and knowledge. I understand your point but since the counter doesn't necessarily loses his 2X bet or 3X bet before going to another level, that's why I have a hard time considering that a negative progression. From a practical stand point it doesn't matter though. I've tried card counting too but for one short trip. Going to Vegas once a year, I learned with that method only to experiment what you've said and luckily it was not losing $40 000. I found out it was a lot of work to never get a count above +8 (and it was perhaps a good thing). However it helped me notice the hi-round lo-round alternance which you take advantage of. QUESTION. Any chance to see you play in Vegas or AC in the next few months?

Hi Ellis The ongoing fight between counters and streak players keeps surprising me. Actually Snyder was pretty nice to you if I compare his ugly fights with Jerry Patterson on Blackjack Forum. At least he's saying that your system wins more often but I don't think it's fair of him to say that you'r selling a progression system. After all you are giving options (I don't know if it was the case in 1993) and you're now saying that knowing when to stop a progression is a lucrative talent. What I don't understand is why you're saying that betting up with the count is a negative progression. I don't want to defend Snyder and the counters but to me betting up with the count is clearly a form of advantage betting. I don't understand your argument here. GIL

Hello NBJ Wannabe Let me know what you see in Montreal. I'm planning to get there once a week this summer. I'm located in Quebec City and it would be nice to share information. I'm a new WCB player since January and I did not play a whole lot (one week in Vegas and three times in Montreal) but so far the results have been positive. The two times I've played on late Friday nights in Montreal I took a downswing between midnight and 2 AM and made all my money back and more afer 2 AM. However I recognize that I should have played WCB a bit more often but it takes a little getting used to. Standing on 14 vs 10 is not natural but when you keep busting on every stiff hand with tens you realize it's smarter to stand and throw the BS book away. The 3rd time I played was an early afternoon on Saturday. This time there was no downswing and the cards were more random. That was a good afternoon.

Congratulations on your win Suzanne! Playing 3rd base in the 6-deck games, do you also use 1-2-4 negative progressions? When do you start those progressions? How many times did you lose three in a row? And a question for Ellis How many Ellis hands (different than BS) do you average in a 6-deck shoe? I'm not talking double downs (or no DD) and insurance. I'm new to this and I'd say that I average maybe 3-4 Ellis hands per shoe. So far, I'm extracting an extra unit or two per shoe when the game is readable.

I was in Las Vegas last week and I almost fell off my chair on Friday at Bill's Gambling House. I was playing the shoe game and got a blackjack with a $40 bet. When I got paid there was a bunch of white chips out there. What the hell was that? "This is 6 to 5 blackjack said the dealer after her $48 payoff. A shoe game with 6/5 blackjack. I could not believe it. Until then I was winning. I lost the next hand and then I had 16 vs 10. I said I surrender ans she started laughing. She was waiting for my signal. I repeated. I surrender. "No surrender" here. I got up and since the pit boss was there. I told her. This is horrible. This is the worst shoe game I've ever seen. You will never see me here again. The pit boss told me that most of Harrah's casinos were doing the 6/5 blackjack nowadays and that they had lost a lot of players. No wonder. How greedy! I just hope this 6/5 blackjack doesn't take off on the strip or anywhere else.

QUESTION 1 I'd like to know how often and when do you play two or even three hands. My theory based on personal experimentation is that each shoe (I cannot say each game) has its own preferred number of players (hands) when the cards are not overclumped. When the cards are overclumped though, it becomes another ball game. There may not be a better number of players. QUESTION 2 Do you mix it up in the course of a shoe? One hand, two hand, one hand. If so, when do you do it?

Mad Dog and Ellis. Give us a range of expectations. Out of 100 games, on average how often do you get to the 8-unit or even 13-unit level?

When in your progression do you use the Fibonacci Mad Dog and how many wins at one level does it take you to go up?

How is that Mad Dog? Is that because of the 6-deck vs 8-deck? I can't find the Finer Points thread. Can you copy-paste it here? Thanks

Thanks for your response Ellis One on one is also my favorite and this is where I have made most of my money in blackjack but I also got killed at it a few times. It goes by so fast that you tend to forget your stop loss. I like fast play but my alarm system tends to shut off when it doesn't work. QUESTION You play two hands consistently but my best results came when playing mostly one hand, and switching to two hands when I expected tens. I go back to one hand when the high cards are gone. Do i declump the cards faster that way? I think I do. Before reading your material, I never thought that I was declumping the cards playing one hand. That could explain why at some point my style seems to work so well and a few of shoes later, it just wasn't working.

Until recently. I was basically a one-on-one player and a first base basic strategy player. I've had some positive experience at 3rd base playing WCB recently (even at 6-player tables). I found I was winning consistently at 3rd base but not necessarily spectacularly compared to one-on-one. My question. How do you choose to play 1st base, 3rd base or head to head?