topstep1
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Posts posted by topstep1
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First of all , make sure the OR count is correct, by the end of the first column I have an OR count of +3 (correct me if I'm wrong), I adjust my play according to the OR count by the end of the shoe I have a OR count of -8 . Now +13 is pretty good for a winning shoe . I play using the SAP and the OR count among a few other things , but keep running shoes at home till it becomes second nature.The more shoes you play the more you will start to understand NOR . Really +13 is good .
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Yeh, i beat every shoe i had where i played then. But as I said, after i got home. As i said ihave to start the shoe most of the time. That means you don't know what nor strategy to apply. I started with s40 and lost. If i had started/knew with OTB4l i would have cleared 20 units on my first 2 shoes. So no, it does beat every shoe encounter d. Just that its exiting to see something work consistently in a place designed to take your mony.
I will not start a shoe no matter what ! If nobody is playing yet be patient , they will start. I only wait for the best possible conditions at the table before I place a bet , and if nobody is playing sit back and relax .....
and chat with the dealer till someone comes along and start betting ... -
So I have compared my play from morning sessions to evening sessions looks like with mornings giving me far more success then evening sessions reason being the shoes and patterns are more symmetrical.
Where as playing in the evening gives you more net betting scenarios
Post a shoe from the Morning and post a shoe from the evening ,I would like to see if I can see a comparison ..
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Fair go Topstep1, that's a fairly cynical and jaded statement. There's nothing like this forum. Personal instruction from the best guy in marketing costs you around $5000 an hour. Personal instruction from Ellis on this forum and MDB is chicken feed. I can understand a new member being a bit bewildered - there's a heap of information to learn if you want to get good at this. But pretending that there's no support if you don't convert (which to me is simply a smart thing to do once you have gotten your head around the basics) is disingenuous and just plain not true.
Just go to the summary board for this area alone and - let alone the constant contributions from Ellis - look at the contributions from great players such as way2fast, gman, ozscouser, MVS, kachatz1 to name only a few (and I can name many more that have certainly helped me to grow and learn) and you can see the immense benefit that is at your fingertips here and unrivalled in the bacc community.
Here's an example: I wanted to understand a tote board term that I hadn't encountered before that I saw at my casino. I googled the term and found another bacc forum that spent five pages explaining the importance of how you 'squeeze the cards'!!!! Could you imagine the devestation wrought by casino friendly sites that propagate a culture and tradition of how to finesse an element of the game that HAS NO BEARING!
Mceight8 send me a PM and I'll do my best to help with some shoes if that's presenting a difficulty for you. We're all here to help. Just remember that this is HARD WORK and the harder YOU work the luckier you'll become.
Chief
Don't get me wrong ,this is the best site on the web, I'm pretty sure MDB + came about because y'all were whining about the number of units you had to risk instead of doing your homework and figuring it out, so Ellis is catering to the masses as far as risk v. reward . Me ,I'd rather just play s40 combined with some of his systems from 20 yrs ago and I still avg 10 to 15 units a shoe. Everybody wants to dance and dont pay the DJ , I have no problem paying ,but just from the MDB + webinar a couple of weeks ago ,I have a strong feeling I already have MDB SYSTEM triggers and one of the triggers he uses already KNOW ,and I learned that just from practicing and playing everyday, except I don't call them triggers I call them NUANCES which you should have figured out by studying your shoes that you bring home from the CASINO . So Yes if you never played baccarat before you have a lot to learn and this is the website to learn it on, Also one thing you might want to really get into is the THE PSYCH OF THE GAME , BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK ITS A HARD SHOE JUST STEP BACK AND LOOK AT THE BOARD, ITS NOTHING BUT S40 ALL DAY LONG, sometimes you might want to wait for 3 in a row then start betting or after you have been on the run for 4 or 5 in a row start betting against the run. look at your SAP, it says a lot . I was using 4D and the conclusion I came back to was S40 .....THE BEST ..... Much respect for DR.ELLIS .........PLAY ON
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Ok well then I am stuck....guess I should have just joined MDB. After all the NOR manual is from 2011, you think it would have been updated since with all the "new" ideas in last couple years. I wont be joining MDB if I cant get the basic NOR working...
I am sure throughout these threads there are some sample plays I can find and work with.
I can say for sure a number of shoes I watched in AC (full tables) would have fell hard to what the basic manual said. All Bac tables in AC are pre-shuffled cards.
The point I am making now is you rarely see new shoes since MDB + has started.......Make sure you read Nor a couple thousand times to understand what you are reading, cuz Its like WINDOWS SUPPORT around here "Once a new version comes out on a baccarat system ,no more support on the current version of baccarat" . unless you put out more money
That way you can go deeper down into the rabbit hole . -
I know this site has lots of posts but I am trying find sample shoe runs for OTB4L, F, S40 and 4D. I found one on TB4L which was helpful. I am more of a hands on type and reading so many posts can get tiring. Just post links to these sample runs here. I really want to know how others handle OTR and progressions.
Thanks in advance
You might have missed the train
, All of Ellis attention now is on MDB + , Each time he comes up with something new he creates new doors , and you know what that means , to go thru that door you pay more money . you want to see some real shoes join MDB + . -
I consider someone a professional, only and only, if they can make a living from playing.
Even a few months of winning doesn't cut it. You need to win consistently, month after month, to be a pro.
Anyone can win in the short-term...
The real question is...who can prove it?
Hamster I'm pretty sure nobody is going to step up and prove to YOU that they make money consistently playing baccarat . Anytime someone like you wants to see proof its obviously you have doubt about your game and you want to see proof of someone else game. Hamster will you please post some shoes so we can evaluate your play and I would strongly suggest that you run a couple of hundred shoes at home and it will all click trust me . PRACTICE, PRACTICE PRACTICE .......That is what is going to get you to that next level , sure I ask to see shoes too but perfect what you already have I bet you its a gold mine.
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Hi NOR members,
Could you please recommend one good online casino to me as i am planning to practise NOR system online? Thank you
Best Regards,
Kevin
I like Dublinbet.com pretty good site.....But you might want to get a program so you can start at your own pace then speed up , theres a lot of info to digest when practicing and you want to take your time .
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I have gotten so many players from Chicago at my seminars that I decided to create a thread just for those in Chicago who are NOR and MDB members... Maurice--- who is a champion player--- said he would help kick it off....
So all you Chicago players--- now you can network and meet other BTC members to play with and exchange ideas...
GO Windy City!!!! (My Dad grew up in Chicago)
I'm in also , I play at Rivers on a regular basis hit me in my inbox any one interested hooking up and talking shop
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As I explained, the regular card shoe type we are seeing everywhere right now is runs of OTB4L and runs of TB4L. We aren't seeing any S40 or F. Just TB4L, OTB4L which is requiring far too many switches for NOR. Switches hurt NOR but O&T thrives on switches. As I mentioned, I don't know why casinos are going back to the same shoe type prevalent in the early '90s. I'm guessing they figure players have forgotten how to play this shoe type. And from what I saw, they're right. Players were losing like crazy against these shoes.
Post a sample shoe , of what we are seeing cuz I cant tell .
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yes, you are correct. Im doing that now running shoes side by side with different modes and comparing the changes due to a different mode in the same shoe using the same system. It does show itself. Thank you for that!
Do you make your mode selection based on winning or loosing your 3rd bet in a 1,2,3 progression or do you choose that mode based on a positive or negative or count?
see my last post
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Thank you for that information. Very helpful.
One more question: When do you use mode 1 for SD40? The OR count will be positive (+) during SD40 and you are saying to then use mode 3. But when do you use the mode 1 or CHOP mode system as it too shall show a positive OR count?
Here is the way I practiced and became familiar with everything , I ran shoes and make sure you got the O/R count , then practice enough shoes just
running OTB4L win or lose , you just want get use to seeing what it looks like on different shoes , then run about 25 to 50 shoes playing s40M1 , same
goes with OTB4L-M2 AND OTB4L M3 .........THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS ONCE YOU RUN ENOUGH PRACTICE SHOES EVERYTHING WILL START TO
BECOME CLEAR . and READ YOUR MANUAL OVER AND OVER AGAIN . WHEN YOU PRACTICE YOU WILL BE SURPRISED HOW THINGS BECOME MUCH
CLEARER. EVERYTHING IS IN THE PRACTICE SESSIONS !!!!!!!!!!!
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Here's a tough shoe and just to get back I broke one major rule, I went on tilt and bet past my limit which is -8 sometimes -10 units , then at play # 25 or 26 I had a A-AHH MOMENT
, WHY DIDN'T I JUST PLAY MY OO/TT SYSTEM IN MODE 3 ? The trick is you go on the run with the opposite you
are betting so if I'm betting OO then after 3 losses I would go OTR with TT , once I lose the run bet I'm back to
betting according to the count ,If its still positive I continue OO , If it negative I go TT.
The reason I pick M3 is because with this chopping the way it does I want to give it a chance to get back on
track , As you can see once I hit the SWEET
SPOT I came up out that hole pretty good. I had a little luck with me that play
I'm open for ideas ! 
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GolferG-
I won't rehash a shoe that "once you see it, all played out" , it's way easier to decide how to approach/play...seems to me BaccDJ did a good job of that. And your forum friends are here to work on all aspects of your game...
But if you are beginning your journey down the NOR YellowBrickRoad, just want to point out we ALL make mistakes, even after many years of play, and you best mind a reasonable stop loss if you want to survive until your next Double Eagle on the links..
That minus -6 right near the beginning is a sure sign of unfortunate system selection, too early to enter the shoe, Bad table selection, or maybe just bad Karma...( and never, ever play golf , or Baccarat, with a girl named Karma!!)
There are many pieces to baccarat success, and maintaining the discipline to adhere to a well defined stop-loss is just one of them...
I will leave the play selection to the technicians on the forum...
GOOD LUCK 2U!
One thing I've notice, what ever happen to waiting 10 to 15 hands or more before starting a shoe to see what kind of patterns develop ? Did professor
Ellis tell everyone to throw that rule out the window , I'm noticing a lot of players are starting right at the start of the shoe , I found that when I started at
the beginning of the shoe I was in the hole by the time the SWEET SPOT CAME. Wait till the shoe develops a pattern you recognize , there is no
need to be in a rush , I did the same thing and when I did that I was always digging my-self out of the hole on the sweet spot and breaking even or getting
just a couple of units ahead by the end of the shoe , also if you lose 2 or 3 bets in a row , BET ZERO till your zero bets start winning then go back
to real money . Also I notice you got up to +15 right towards the end of the shoe and gave it back , WHY? YOU'RE AT THE END OF THE SHOE
My thing is , It took 50 maybe 60 something plays to get to +15, lock up +10 to +12 , you've milked all you can out of that shoe
BELIEVE ME. Don't risk 15 units at the end of the shoe for another what maybe 3 or 4 units , its not worth it.
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Here's Another shoe except I was betting TT instead of OO Notice the count went negative so I played TT this was a good one
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Here's another shoe where as I bet OO/TT according to the count, as long as the count stays between +3 / -3 you can bet progressions all day long and hit you goal of +5 to +10 units , If the count goes beyond +3 then you bet OO , If the count goes beyond -3 then you bet TT , these numbers aren't etched in stone so you have to watch your count and pay attention to what the shoe is doing . ADD +1 FOR OO , SUBTRACT -1 FOR TT . YOU CAN DO IT ON O/T ALSO BUT IT SWINGS A LOT MORE THAN OO/TT . NOTICE I SAID THE COUNT AND NOT THE DISPARITY . I just like the count better for some reason and notice a lot of times I will go to the 4th or 5th progression without hesitation because it chops like that. If I'm dangling on the negative side of the score I will flat bet till I get back in the positive or I'm trying to lock up some profit.
I have more shoes if needed .
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I'm playing shoes with confirmed chop condition (OR count moving toward positive 4) then I lost 2 in a rows with make 3s in player. So according mode 2, I will bet OTR which bet 4s in player, unfortunately, it make 1 in banker (which is opposite). Then according to mode rule again. Bet oposit of what won. But, I'm bad luck Brian. Now it makes 3s and 2s. Then I continue, s40, which bet opposite. But Sh!t happens, now it makes 3p-3b is what I call 6 lost in a row. And know what, with last effor of making 4b. the result now 3p-3b-1p with the total defeat of me. What should I do with this kind of shoes usually happen.
This is what I should've did from the get
..... You guys need to read read read and run about 50 shoes in practice , you will get it then ! “Good luck is a residue of preparation.”
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I start of with s40 chop, betting opposite of every hand. I did'nt virtual bet when loosing, that's why
You ask us How do you beat this kind of shoe ? And I'm tell you , You have to adjust to the shoe , the shoe doesn't adjust to you ! Every shoe has a
SWEET SPOT , and you have to be patience and discipline enough to wait for it to happen , the reason I say bet zeros' is because its better you losing
nothing than being down 10 units when the SWEET SPOT COMES , It has nothing to do with you having bad luck , Its you adjusting to the game. When I
start off playing I wait at least 10hands or so, that gives you time to decide what to use as the shoe starts to build some history then you go in as to what
to use OTB4L , TB4L , or s40 depending on the O/R COUNT , this is not all MECHANICAL you have to use some DISCRETION .
FLOW WITH THE SHOE THE SHOE DOESN'T FLOW WITH YOU
Treat this ,what you are learning as an APPROACH ! -
I'm playing shoes with confirmed chop condition (OR count moving toward positive 4) then I lost 2 in a rows with make 3s in player. So according mode 2, I will bet OTR which bet 4s in player, unfortunately, it make 1 in banker (which is opposite). Then according to mode rule again. Bet oposit of what won. But, I'm bad luck Brian. Now it makes 3s and 2s. Then I continue, s40, which bet opposite. But Sh!t happens, now it makes 3p-3b is what I call 6 lost in a row. And know what, with last effor of making 4b. the result now 3p-3b-1p with the total defeat of me. What should I do with this kind of shoes usually happen.
First of all keep practicing , What happened to betting zero( virtual bet) when you lose 2 in a row or 3 in a row and bet zero till you win 1 or 2 out of 3 to get back in the game, then continue to bet.
post the shoe lets see what it looks like ? Are you starting off with OTB4L ?
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I had a session the other night and I lost 10 units and all the way home I'm trying to figure out where I went wrong , First let me start off
by saying the session didn't start off good because I got into a spat with a fellow player , Rule#1 Don't talk or lolly gag before the
shoe starts, You have to be 101% in the shoe before the first hand is dealt , anyway he makes a comment and the conversation
went well into the 3rd or 4th hand it totally took me off my game (and I knew better) . Every time I get back from the casino one thing
I always do is go over the shoe or shoes I played, that's where you get all your confirmation as to what you did right and what you did
wrong especially when you have a losing session , it might hurt
but it has to be done , that's when you learn the most , going over losing shoes and practicing when you don't feel like it . If I have 2 losing sessions in a row (something's wrong) and I have to address it
immediately before I go back into the casino or It will continue . And I must say the losing sessions a lot of times is from going on
TILT , BEING STUBBORN AND TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN ( THE PRICE CAN BE COSTLY) BUT ANYWAY I was
going over my card the other night and the count got so far off that it cost me 10 units , and I broke a couple of playing rules that were
etched in stone. And I preach on this all the time.
The Moral to the story is "Keep your mouth shut ,Watch the count and concentrate"
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Has anyone done any studies on OOO/TTT ? and is it worth pursuing , that's OO/TT +2
for those who don't understand what I'm talking about. -
Why use OO/TT ? What pattern is it catching that the other patterns are not catching ? I see what OTB4L is catching and tracking it as far as disparity is concerned..
Anyone ?
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Right, I've heard about that Chicago casino and how slow it is with all that back betting. I corresponded with
one of the main players there on ImSpirit who was $20,000 ahead with about a 12 step progression betting Bank only.
I told him he was headed for ruin. All he needed was a couple Player dominant shoes in a row and there goes $20,000.
Never heard from him again so I guess.....
But he sent me some shoes. They were extremely OTB4L favorable. This was because of their standard card prep every shoe.
Made me want to go there and clean them out. But 2-3 hours per shoe.....
Gold Strike, Tunica MS, is much like DarkValefor says. A half to an hour per shoe. My kind of game.
Elliot I know who you are talking about , He got hit (lost) in that progression for $24,000 a while ago , and I was trying to get him to understand If he changed the way he bet he would last a little longer than what he did, I play at Rivers all the time and the last time I was there I had just got there and there was a shoe that had just finished up , it was 55 bankers about 18 players and the rest ties , need I say every player at the table had stacks of black and purple ($500) chips there were a few who had stacks of bright orange. They cleaned house
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you don't need a big bank roll to win 20 to 50 a day you only need 2 to 8 shoe a day
Did you say 2-8 shoes a day ? 3 shoes top , I cant play no more than 3 shoes in a day
.. I'm in Chicago , the dealers deal like moving molasses ...SLOW !BTW ,,WHERE CAN U PLAY 8 SHOES IN A DAY ? I've yet seen that done . Dealer must be fast
and chat with the dealer till someone comes along and start betting ...
That way you can go deeper down into the rabbit hole .
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but it has to be done , that's when you learn the most , going over
Lets bring back NOR
in BeatTheCasino.com Q and A Baccarat and Blackjack
Posted
In my opinion Nor and S40 was more than enough to get you started and winning. If you can't win with those then you have some practicing to do. A lot of players don't want to risk a lot but like Oprah said " If there is something out there you want and you never had it , You are going to have to do something you have never done to get it " . And really S40 with the SAP count is enough . Quit looking for the HOLY GRAIL and put some work in and stop going down these NEW RABBIT HOLES that are created. Those of you who keep buying your way into a NEW DOOR , ,,,,,, You already have the answer just study .I have read every system out there and S40/SAP COUNT /NOR is as close as you are going to get to a decent system, I don't have MDB+ ...And once I saw it quite a few of those rules I had already incorporated in my S/40 SYSTEM , and that came from practice ! I might risk any where from 10-12 units per shoe and I very seldom get to -6 , You have to have discipline and be able to sit and wait for the shoe you want to come to YOU . If its not there then don't PLAY . You are right BRAD lets get back to S40/NOR Discussions . Everytime a new door is created everyone rushes to see there is nothing there but the same old thing .... TRUST ME LADIES AND GENTS NOR IS THE FARTHEST YOU HAVE TO GO TO BE A CONSISTENT WINNER, THE REST IS ON YOU .