KIDDO

I don't net bet OvR i net bet PvB(and yes I usually start out net betting), the F-3 means play F mode on banker side because the banker spread was 3+. I played for 50 a day(heck some days you don't even come close to 50) until I had a comfortable bankroll to play with, after that its just make what you need. This session, I cash called 100k (20 unit profit = 100k) because of my unit size I have no need to play more then a session a week unless I was gearing up for a big purchase. regardless of your unit size the result should be the same, going for 10-20 units a week is my choice, it is NOT something the system limits me to. Like I mentioned in the bankroll/unit size thread, an adequate bankroll in my mind is 2000+ units, granted not everyone will have that at the beginning, there was at one point where I was playing a $5 unit just to see if I could make 2000 unit profit over the course of a year with it, tracked every shoe, every bit of commission, when I got to 2000 units I just slashed that in half and started to see if I could make another 1000 units at $10 units, and so on. When your bankroll gets to a sizable amount then you don't need to play as much to make the same amount ie: $25,000 = $25 units shoot for oh 10 units a session = $250 a session vs a $100,000 = $100 units shoot for a 10 unit session = $1000 (4 times the regular session at $25) meaning you don't have to play 4 sessions to still hit your goal/target. Thats the benefit of having a bigger bankroll is jsut to cut down the amount of time you spend in a god forsaken casino and more time to spend drinking mohitos on the beach. I for one who have spent the last 8 years of my life grinding it out at the casino, its become more of a chore and I want to do it less and less, there is no thrill in winning money anymore because its expected. This is all under the assumption that you actually can reproduce the same numbers you have at home in a real time scenario at the casino. In anycase if you have a system that works the more time you spend at the casino the faster that bankroll will grow.

LOL stay away from continuous shuffle black jack tables.... oh dear god those things are impossible to beat, I watched a guy get cleared out over 250k in one session on it while I was playing bac on the other side of the room.

LOL I'm still alive sinatra, however I have slowed down alot and decided to take it easy and enjoy what I have earned. No more 50 units a day at my current unit size that would draw way too much heat, I just walk in and shoot for 10-20 units a week and call it quits, currently playing NOR mixed with XDX. Heres the shoe I played today. [ATTACH]2313[/ATTACH]

just to give you some insight into how I decide unit sizes and how much to bring all of the advice given so far is solid, this is how I look at it bring exactly what you are willing to leave with (in winnings) if you want to make 10,000 then bring 10,000. The way I look at it I will bring 5-10% of my bankroll because thats all I'm willing to risk in one session, when I buy in I buy in ALL of the money I bring, even if it is 50k. This for me is a psychological factor I may bring 50k with me but I will play only $250 or $500 units, when I lose it doesn't bother me because my stack is still massive(to me it feels like a drop in the bucket and I shouldn't worry about losing a bet), a nice general rule is 200 units should be the same as 10% of your bankroll. Granted not everyone will have such a big bankroll to start out with this is what you need to strive for eventually. By doing so you stay confident in your decisions in my case anyways thats how it works. What I tell alot of people that ask me in PMs and emails, the easiest unit is to start out with is $5, whether you start out at $5 x 200 = $1000 take that and make it $5 x 2000 = $10,000. If you can do that then you're ready to go to the next level which is $10 which would take your bankroll and slash it in half to 1000 units. Then repeat the process. Biggest thing to remember is, if you can't do it at $5 units, then you sure as hell won't beable to do it at $25, $100, $1000, $10000, etc.... For those who are starting out don't and I repeat this a million times ever start out at anything higher then $5 unless you're 110% confident you can walk in and walk out with profit in your pocket EVEN if it is 1 unit of profit. If you can't do that then I suggest you don't play, gambling is fun but if you're there to make money, then do so. No one will ever break the casino the ones that can afford to put a dent in the casinos don't need to gamble to make a living.

congratulations dude welcome to the club

hand picked to include different types of situations where extreme counts reverse, where there are no consistencies, the types of shoes people usually lose on where a system will hit -20 or a system will hit +20. I no longer spend anymore time in a casino then I have to where I just record shoes, when testing a system I test it against these 25 shoes and if it fails, then in my eyes its not worth my time to continue the current testing. Each shoe displays a typical situation you would encounter some examples, a very high OT count to a very low OT count w/ no consistent LC an OT count hovering zero w/ no consistent LC same as the above 2 but with consistent LCs Strong SAP 40 shoe Weak SAP 40 shoe Strong matrix shoe Weak matrix shoe Strong F2 shoe Weak F2 shoe Strong RD1 shoe Weak RD1 shoe Multi trend shoes w/ no consistency in sap chart multi trend shoes w/ consistencies in sap chart extreme +/- cs count shoe reversals These are examples of hand picked shoes that cover a variety of situations that you wouldn't normally see in live play in 25 shoes you would see these more along the lines of 100 or 200 shoes.

I've had a few members ask me if I would take a deep dive into this system and see how viable it would be in the long run, so this will begin a 100 shoe test to see how it fares across hand picked shoes from different types of situations from extreme OT to T, heavy +CS to -CS counts etc. Here are the results of the first 25 hand picked shoes. This is for informational purposes only and to provide information to those who are interested in seeing how well this will fare across a series of shoes. Rules are the same as posted by Andrea with no variations except for when you switch to AD you play as if it was a new shoe (starting with repeats until you lose one) as well when you switch you wait for 1 paper win before proceeding with a real bet. [ATTACH]2183[/ATTACH] Across 25 Shoes W/ No money management 8.20 Units average per shoe Total profit of 205 Units 88% Shoe win rate W/ 15 unit stop win 10-12 unit stop loss 7.28 Units average per shoe 182 units total profit 88% Shoe win rate W/ 8 unit stop win 10-12 unit stop loss 5.84 Units average per shoe 146 unit total profit 92% Shoe win rate Looks good so far, those who're looking for results stay tuned to this thread as I will post in groups of 25

I know a lot of self made professional bac players and teams where this is all they do. As mentioned before it is true if you want to make a living out of this, like any other business you absolutely cannot focus on anything else but baccarat. Self discipline is the hardest part of this. Its two different stores when you think about going professional and you actually have to do it. But the best piece of advice is to start part time, I would say if you could turn a $500 bankroll into $50,000 part time. then and only then should you even consider it because you've proven to yourself that you can do it. Alot of players make the mistake after winning for a week or two that it is easy, yet none of them know what its like to go through a several losing sessions in a row and go from being extremely confident where their egos blind them to no end and reality slaps them in the face. I wouldn't say I rely on this to pay my mortgage because I do not have one. I believe as many others do that if you're in debt before you start playing professionally you're just asking for nothing but trouble. There has to be another sort of income something that covers your mortgage payment to even consider this option viable. My only advice is to play part time until you build up enough bankroll to pay off A) all your debt for some this will be a long time coming. have enough in the bank to cover your bills in advance for 12 months. All of the professional players I know with no exceptions are debt free, and there is a big reason behind this, when you're at the table, you literally have to be at the table, you can't be worrying about a 2k mortgage payment at the end of the month. You can't be worrying about that 50k credit card bill you've got coming, you can't be worrying about that 70k car payment. The only kind of debt that a person should have is the good debt, examples would be people who have a personal networth (what you're worth on paper) * 25%-50% = total amount of debt (in investments), but that's just getting complicated I could write a book on how to bend the banks to your will and make a fortune off them but I won't go there. I guess all in all before you consider playing baccarat professionally you need to take a DEEP DIVE into your financial situation, if it doesn't look good then don't even consider full time play, only part time play until you get to a point where losing a week straight doesn't even make you flinch.

Dweezel, I have given you a name. as outlined in my post I already knew you wouldn't believe it for shit. If you really want to see it like I said go to vegas and meet him play craps with him for a couple of weeks and you will see his 7 ratio is much less common then all the other numbers, he has no issue "proving" ignorant people like you wrong. He has nothing better to do now that he has all the money in the world at his finger tips. I've given you multiple acronyms of names of different groups(due to NDC agreements) who have been around longer then BTC. One of the said groups of professionals cleared over 20,000 units last year profit to boot. But hey I don't expect you to believe that either. You can choose and learn from them yet I don't see a single PM regarding how to contact these people including myself. So I guess that shows how "motivated" you really are about becoming a pro. You must have been raised with a silver spoon, with that loser attitude of yours expecting everything to be just handed to you on a silver platter. I'm not here to prove idiots like you wrong I have better things to do with my time. NO ONE wants to waste thier time on someone who wants "proof" as you call it, when you've travelled the world and watched whales play baccarat then maybe we can talk on the same level until then you're nothing but a fly on the wall that no one else could give two shits about. Unfortunately for you NO ONE owes you ANYTHING you want to learn then we are willing to teach you and point you in the right direction. But with that piss poor attitude of yours I'd be surprised if anyone would want to waste thier time taking you under thier wing.

Well there is this method that I've been testing for fun when I don't feel like making any money. It produces 2.43 units per shoe over 740 shoes so far. 2.43 is peanuts though I'd have to play $5000 units to even want to waste my time with something so little. My only suggestion to you dweezel7 just give up now. Your mind already believes that this doesn't work. Though wizard of odds is a smart guy, the only person you need to listen to is yourself. There are thousands of people to beat the casinos every day weather it be in baccarat, black jack, craps, roulette you name it they do it. Everyone has a different method and a different style of play. I used to be like you thinking this kind of stuff doesn't work based on the math. But the math only takes you so far. Take craps for an instance, I'm sure you've heard of dice control. Is it possible? yes, I truely believe it is. Do others believe me when I say it is possible? no. can I prove it to them that its possible? no. Why? because I can't do it myself. But if you talk to Dominic LoRiggio he will show you that with simple physics that it is possible and show you how to "dominate" the craps table with it. His casino alias is "the dominator"and the "golden arm" are just some of the nicknames this man as earned through the years because of this. If there is a simulation that could prove Dominic's methods could be replicated then the sky would fall down. He also teaches money management, and playing on both sides of the table (in craps that would be pass/don't pass) that you need to use when you're playing with dice control. What you're asking for is literally an impossibility, I have only seen it done once in my entire gaming life and that is the MIT blackjack team. Heres the real kicker though, the original documents were all destroyed. NO ONE knows what it is that they were exactly playing that could prove that they would have a 0.5%-1.5% edge over the casino in 100 million hands. and unfortunately in this day and age unless you find someone who has the will power to do that much testing you'll never see the results that you're looking for especially when 1 mistake means losing that 0.5%-1.5% edge. I recall being at a seminar with Mike and Semyon both members of the very original team and this is what they teach can they prove it? no they can't they don't have the simulations that the very original team leader had done. They took his "word" for it and made millions. Documents that could prove a method to that extent is worth 100s of millions on the market. Teams like BTC, B5 and my personal team BLG are all founded on methodologies over the short term play, BEG is another team much like MIT that play for a long term statistical advantage but instead of blackjack they play for Baccarat, if thats what you really looking for then look for a person named Zuan in the Macau casinos. but be warned now if you can't stomach a 64 unit bet then you should just quit BEG plays a limited marty progression, not to mention you'll need millions in order to roll with them. I've seen them drop over 300k on a single bet without flinching, I would be hiding behind the chair praying for dear life. Inorder for me to be a part of thier team I would have to pay 100k into thier pooled bankroll that I would never see again. BEG players are classified as "whales" to major gaming corporations because they fall into the category of highrollers that could take a big cut out of thier bottom line or increase thier bottom line with weeks worth of profits.

Week ending May 7th - +460 units. There was a +150 day, shoes were too good to pass up. 3 shoes OT4/5 played with U1D2 would of scored +22 +34 +28 respectively. Using U1W/L actually went to +50 +50 +50 by hand 40. I will post some shoes when I get back home. The answer to the qestion below. I will start between Hand 6 - 10. I hardly ever start at hand 2 unless I had one of those great shoes where nothing could go wrong. Re: S40A and NOR Results Kiddo, I salute you!! Gives hope to us all that it CAN be done... I'm curious to hear from Ellis his opinion on the progression being used? Up win or lose one.... very interesting!! And obviously working for Kiddo....!! Are you waiting for 8 plays before you enter a shoe? or are you starting at play 2? Any chance of seeing an actual play card with your play by play thoughts included? Congrats again and keep up the good work! Last edited by Audionut; 05-03-2011 at 07:02 AM.

Casino Time, Day and Table number are all listed on my scorecards. I have no need to track them in my over allsheet easy days like today I will always be willing to take, S2/3 for the first two shoes followed by a heavy OT4/5 shoe. +50 in 3 shoes without breaking a 4 unit bet. Sometimes it takes two sessions just to hit my goal for the day but hey, do what you gotta do. This week started out great +50 already so its not too bad. Hopefully I can get to over 10 units average per shoe in the long run, in reality thats all I want. If i could make 10 units per shoe for every shoe I've played heh. Life would be marvellous(sp?). Another MM note: if you find yourself getting scared to bet and not believing in your own system selection its time to leave. When I find myself in that situation I will always take a break, leave the table or even leave the casino and come back for another session. Its easy to walk away when you're at home testing, its quite a different story when you're playing live.

Hi Everyone, I've decided to post my entire 2011 live play results using S40A aka NOR. Simply speaking if someone is wondering if it really is working. These are live results, non modified, what you walk out with is what was entered into this sheet. as you can see UPS is very very dependant on the casino and quality of the shoes. There was zero table selection used due to many casinos not having more then one or two tables and various other reasons which I will address at a later date. Our targets and goals have been hit conisistently week after week with proper money management. I use a W/L count to decide between two progressions that I am to apply. Session End = 50 Units NO EXCEPTION, or -40 NO EXCEPTION. Where you see -25 are sessions I personally felt were just impossible to win seeing a hand hit rate of <40% within the first two shoes. Yes you will hit bullshit shoes, S40A is vulnerable to them you switch the shoe switches in other words if you hadn't switched, you would of won. Progression 1: When W/L is > 3 Up as you win, up as you lose. Go up 1 unit after every bet regardless of win or loss. Reset the progression when, A) go from negative to positive. win 3 in a row C) break a milestone, ie +10, +20, +30, +40 etc... Progression 2: When W/L is < 3 U1D2 w/ optional M2 As for everything else the rules remain the same. Only exception I employ in live play is never betting against the MC no matter what mode you're in, if I bet its gonna be 1 unit. As for dragon pushes, pretend you won and write it down as a win progression and all. Any bet over 4 units on banker play dragon for insurance only enough to cover your bet. I personally find having a spreadsheet setting realistic goals and keep track of your units/bankroll really helps keep you under control with live play. Thats something you guys have to figure out on your own. My realistic goal is to average 200 units per week for 52 weeks, anything else is gravy. I also double my unit size after I break the 2000 unit mark, I also don't change unit sizes until the end of a week.

is exposed to the public. just to let you guys know. I don't know if you guys want it to be exposed but just a heads up I can access this forum without logging in