Ellis, Keith, Mad Dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest CarlosM]

Also to evryone on this forum who wants to add to this discussion. The last few days I had a close freind ask me about casino shuffle machines, wether from Shuffle Master Corp or Vending Data Corp. He has been on their web site a number of times and says, "Yes but, those machines, according to the manufacturer, produce totally random, non-countable, non-trackable, no patternsn no trend cards". I went to these web sites again to read this. This is a quote from Shuffle Master Corp, regarding their batch shufflers, continuous shufflers, King, one-2-six, MD1 and MD2.

"Double Randomization, means "RANDOM IN", "RANDOM OUT". They mean the cards in the discard tray at the end of every round is put back in the machine and that chunk can still remain intact or barely broken up, and can appear anytime, could appear the next very round or 10 rounds later.

"Each card is randomly selected during the shuffle, so patterns or runs won't be consistent shoe to shoe or within a shoe"

I think the manufacturers definition of random is different from ours! Random to us is even distribution of TENS or Highs to Lows. That in random a TEN should be 4 in 13 cards. That dealer breaks are30% or 28%.

But these manufactures don't discuss this at all. Their definition of random is if you have a run like this, 10, 10, 10, 9, 8, 9, when that goes from the discard into the machine, it randomly selects different cards from each discard batch and randomly places it anywhere. So, that run above, the machine could take a 10 and a 9 out and put back in that run a 4 and a 6. I think they are trying to ensure whatever pattern or trend in a shoe, that it is not excactly repeated in the next shoe. If anyone has input on all this and also about how they say it is non-countable. Also, about non-trackable, no reliable patterns? If anyone has seen the inside of any of these machines and how it works inside, and outside buttons of functions, I would be very interested to hear about it. Ellis and I had a long talk on this topic and he told me some very interesting things in what they want the public to beleive and why. I mean these manufacturers.

[Mad Dog]

The casinos know that clumped cards help them win at a much higher rate than random cards. The machines preserve clumping because the casinos want it that way.

[Mad Dog]

I would like to relate an incident that occurred during a recent trip. I saw a clump of cards which was primarily deuces. There were so many goddamn deuces, it was very noticable. A few hands later, that same clump of deuces came out. The clump was virtually undisturbed. Whatever the "One-Two-Six" shuffle machine does, it allowed this same clump of cards to reappear within five hands or so of being dealt. Naturally during that round I hit like, well, a mad dog.

So "RANDOM IN, RANDOM OUT" must really mean "FULLY INTACT CLUMP IN, FULLY INTACT CLUMP OUT".

Maybe they have different clumping settings, like regular and extra crispy. The ones I've played against must have been set on extra crispy.

[Guest CarlosM]

That's funny! You say it was extra crispy, all the other players must have said it was extra nasty!

[Guest CarlosM]

Since this forum is open to the public, I wonder if any casino personnel, like dealers, pit bosses, etc... are in here lurking. If they are, I wish they had a little bit of balls and challenge some or all of our discussions. That would be interesting. Or maybee funny! Who knows? Mad Dog or Ellis or Keith or anyone, what do you guys think?

[Guest CarlosM]

Hey Mad Dog! Was it you who was telling me that at your casinos, when new cards arrive to the casino from the card manufacturer, that the shoe or cards are already shuffled or prepped to the casinos liking? Explain a little more.