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#83 02-02-2008, 04:56 PM


Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 13

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Re: Shuffle machines and random cards


Hello everyone, Zenwin here,

I have been re-reading NBJ. Sometimes I feel that I have many questions but don't know what to ask, therefore I keep on reading our articles to see if I could come up with some.

I met a frequent player in our casino who told me that he knew how our shuffling machine worked. He explained that it has a RNG, it reads and sorts cards, it can be programmed so that it'll give back X% to the casino. In short, its principle is rather like a slot machine, it doesn't matter so long the players play the games, the casino will make that X% ( or close to, or exceed) with this machine.

I thought he was imagining it. Well, just how can he knows ! He said he used to work there and most managers are remained friends. When I came home I decided to 'google' it on 'shuffle machine md1.1' (I saw the model no. on the back of our machine). I was surprised to find a whole lot of info. according to patenting this machine. It is so long and tiresome to read. But I have managed to copy a small portion to illustrate it, as follows :

According to the present invention, a number of cards to be randomized and the order of insertion of each card into the card randomizing or shuffling compartment is predetermined by the random number generator and microprocessor. By adding an encoder to the motor or motors driving the elevator, and by sensing the presence of groups of suspended cards, the MPU can compare the data representing the commands and the resulting movements to verify a shuffle has occurred. In the absence of this verification, the shuffler can send a signal to the display to indicate a misdeal, to a central pit computer to notify management of the misdeal, to a game table computer, if any with an output display to notify the dealer of a misdeal, to a central computer that notifies security, to a central system for initiating maintenance calls or combinations of the above.

Such a system is referred to as a "closed loop" system because the MPU creates the commands and then receives system signals verifying that the commands were properly executed.

Although the dealer control panel and display in the above examples of the present invention are located on the card shuffler, the present invention contemplates user-operated remote controls, such as a foot pedal, an infra-red remote control, the input of commands from a remote keyboard in the pit or other device initiated by a dealer or by management. Unlike the shuffler operation driven by software from a game computer, pit computer or central computer system, the shuffler of the present invention is controllable by an operator using remote equipment such as what is described above.

Obviously, the word 'randomize' above does not mean it produces random cards/games. Please, any comments ? What kind of BJ games are we really playing ? Are we being fooled by playing with the machine ? Or it doesn't matter as long as we are winning ?


#84 02-03-2008, 05:26 AM

E. Clifton Davis

Professional Player Join Date: Nov 2005

Posts: 449

Rep Power: 45

Re: Shuffle machines and random cards


Excellent post Zenwin! I believe your ex casino friend is basically correct. Although I have been highly criticized by many for saying it. I think the key to understanding what is going on is common sense, not patent mumbo jumbo. I think the patents are highly misleading and purposely worded to that effect. There is nothing in the patent law that says you must declare all the resulting effects of your invention. They merely protect mechanical arrangement and must be shown to work. The word random is used a lot but is meaningless. They aren't patenting random condition, they are patenting the fact that that mechanical arrangement shuffles the cards. Most patents today are submitted more for sales reasons than for copy protection.

From a common sense standpoint we must look at the fact that casinos developed hand shuffling to the point that they eventually tripled their profit take in BJ from 5% to 15% of the drop. They did this while Basic Strategy was becomming more and more prevalent. That profit margin became the accepted norm.

Then came the machines. Their probem was that they WERE random. Casinos would rent them and then throw them out at the end of their first quarter of use. Why? Because they couldn't match the profit standards of hand shuffling. The early machine designs could not duplicate hand shuffle profits. It was back to the drawing board for the machine manufacturers. This cycle occured again and again until the machines could achieve those profit goals through persistent redesign. Today, the machine manufacturer's goal is to improve those profit margins. Because, the machine that produces the highest profits is the machine that will produce the highest sales for the manufacturer.

When you think about it, a machine that radomizes cards is a relatively simple device. You can buy such machines for just a few dollars. Virtually any manufacturer can produce such a machine. They've been around since the '40s. The trick is to design a machine that maintains the exact degree of clumping that destroys Basic Strategy yet is not obvious to the street player.

Ask yourself this: Why would a casino corporation pay for a machine that reduces profits? Don't you think some heads would roll? No, they buy machines that improve profits just like your casino friend said.

Note all of the remote operation lingo in the patent. It's just like I've always said: The machines are not controlled by the pit. They are controlled by the camera people upstairs. Pit bosses themselves who have worked for us told me this.

Look, If the machines were random Basic Strategy players would win. Today, virtually everyone plays Basic Strategy. They aren't beating the machines are they? And the more perfectly you play Basic, the more perfectly you lose.

Casinos are NOT stupid as all basic strategy books maintain. The BS authors just WISH casinos were stupid. Then their little amateur ploys would work. But they don't do they? As anyone with a brain can quickly see by simply setting foot in any casino and watching.

But, are we concerned about all this? No, not really. NBJ assumes the casino will cheat. NBJ thrives on casino cheating. Machines are far more consistent than a parade of different dealers. Some dealers clump better than others. Machines eliminate the guess work. What you get is what you get. You play what the machine is producing. Not what some book writer thinks is happening....wishes was happening.

So, can machines dial up a certain game? Absolutely! But so can you. That's the difference in how we play. We play what IS.

Do we need to be concerned about them? Sometimes. When a machine like the Mtwo2six detroys our first base advantage, we need to know. But, when a machine like the Mtwo2six enhances our third base advantage we need to know that too.

So, do machines beat Basic Strategy? Absolutely! The proof is right before your eyes in any casino for anyone who wants to know the truth. Can they ever make a machine that beats us? Not in my lifetime. That is what I do.


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