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My 11 hour session


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Well, I gave my negative shoe progression a break and decided to play NOR.

Well at least my understanding of NOR without having gone to a seminar.

I used system 40 most of the time with a 1,2,3 negative progression and if I lost the third bet, I went OTR. Sometimes until the repeat ended if repeats were really strong or if just one single strong repeat line, I would go back to system 40 on the 5th bet.

It took me 11 hours to win $38. Brutal...

I also used OTB4L when the O/R count at the beginning of the shoe was close to 0.

I probably played NOR wrong but I found there are so many times where it seems very subjective.

E.g. Let's say I wait until 20 hands are dealt before deciding on which system.

A few times, I noticed that the O/R count was say +2 or +1 or +3. and maybe it went to 0 twice in the first 10 hands but ended up +3 at hand 20. I would go with system 40...

Where do you draw the line?

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Well, I gave my negative shoe progression a break and decided to play NOR.

Well at least my understanding of NOR without having gone to a seminar.

I used system 40 most of the time with a 1,2,3 negative progression and if I lost the third bet, I went OTR. Sometimes until the repeat ended if repeats were really strong or if just one single strong repeat line, I would go back to system 40 on the 5th bet.

It took me 11 hours to win $38. Brutal...

I also used OTB4L when the O/R count at the beginning of the shoe was close to 0.

I probably played NOR wrong but I found there are so many times where it seems very subjective.

E.g. Let's say I wait until 20 hands are dealt before deciding on which system.

A few times, I noticed that the O/R count was say +2 or +1 or +3. and maybe it went to 0 twice in the first 10 hands but ended up +3 at hand 20. I would go with system 40...

Where do you draw the line?

Well you are close but you can't play NOR by guess. You need to know the system and which mode to be in and why. You need to know the multiple ways of betting it and how to know when to bet each way.

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Thanks for your feedback Ellis!

I've watched a bunch of your youtube videos...

Question - Is NOR subjective and requires come degree or experience to play correctly or close to correctly? Or is NOR kinda like playing perfect poker...and even PROS can never play poker correctly every single hand.

example - I waited about 12 hands into one shoe before choosing which system to play, using the O/R count and looking at the board.

Sometimes you don't even need a O/R count since the Tote board can show every easily which system to use.

This one shoe I got mixed up early as this happened to me:

The O/R count was close to 0. So I went with OTB4L using 1,2,3 negative progression.

Let's say it was ppbbbpbbppbb so I go with p on my next bet. It was b. So second bet I go p but it was b. Third bet I go with p and it is bank. At this point I go OTR, so next bet is b, but it was p. So I go back to OTB4L and bet p, but it is bank....gggrrrrrr. What did I do wrong here???

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Thanks for your feedback Ellis!

I've watched a bunch of your youtube videos...

Question - Is NOR subjective and requires come degree or experience to play correctly or close to correctly? Or is NOR kinda like playing perfect poker...and even PROS can never play poker correctly every single hand.

example - I waited about 12 hands into one shoe before choosing which system to play, using the O/R count and looking at the board.

Sometimes you don't even need a O/R count since the Tote board can show every easily which system to use.

This one shoe I got mixed up early as this happened to me:

The O/R count was close to 0. So I went with OTB4L using 1,2,3 negative progression.

Let's say it was ppbbbpbbppbb so I go with p on my next bet. It was b. So second bet I go p but it was b. Third bet I go with p and it is bank. At this point I go OTR, so next bet is b, but it was p. So I go back to OTB4L and bet p, but it is bank....gggrrrrrr. What did I do wrong here???

You played the wrong system!

Good grief man! Any member would see at a glance that you have drawn a near perfect OTB4L shoe start. Starting at play 2 you are already at +9 with a highest bet of 2, twice. Your PA is nearly 70%, a feat card counters would deem impossible.

At black chips you would already have paid your membership one and a half times.

That's what happens when you are on the outside looking in.

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You played the wrong system!

Good grief man! Any member would see at a glance that you have drawn a near perfect OTB4L shoe start. Starting at play 2 you are already at +9 with a highest bet of 2, twice. Your PA is nearly 70%, a feat card counters would deem impossible.

At black chips you would already have paid your membership one and a half times.

That's what happens when you are on the outside looking in.

Thanks for the reply and feedback Ellis!

One of your youtube videos you stated you don't like to start a new shoe. Rather, you would wait up to 20 plays to determine what system to play. This is why it took me 12 plays before I decided to jump in with OTB4L. Then just as I went with OTB4L I was getting every bet wrong...

Did I wait too long to go with OTB4L since it was obvious early that was the way to play?

Also, what would you suggest I do when OTB4L isn't working and you start getting every bet wrong? Switch to system 40 or just wait a few plays?

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Thanks for the reply and feedback Ellis!

One of your youtube videos you stated you don't like to start a new shoe. Rather, you would wait up to 20 plays to determine what system to play. This is why it took me 12 plays before I decided to jump in with OTB4L. Then just as I went with OTB4L I was getting every bet wrong...

Did I wait too long to go with OTB4L since it was obvious early that was the way to play?

Also, what would you suggest I do when OTB4L isn't working and you start getting every bet wrong? Switch to system 40 or just wait a few plays?

Yeah, that's youtube for ya. I don't follow youtube and have no idea what might be on there re me but it's likely very outdated stuff.

I usually start at play 2 going by prior shoes. You only need to wait if you're playing in the blind and playing in the blind is pure stupid.

I think starting too late is the biggest flaw our players make. They watch a perfect shoe go by and then jump in when it is finally about to change. Then, of course, they blame me and I'm already out of the shoe with my +10! God help us.

NOR Rule number freaking ONE! Never play in the blind!

Our new +5 approach and the 4D and the 3D require no table selection.

The key word there is "require".

It makes our players think that no table selection is a good thing.

Watch my lips - No table selection is NEVER a good thing.

It causes many missed opportunities.

Find the easiest table to beat in the casino. That comes even before Rule #1.

Right, don't play until you know WHAT to play - but that doesn't mean you wait all day.

It means you already know what to play from the tote board BEFORE you ever sit down - which approach, which system and which mode.

After you've played a shoe you pretty much know which system to play at that table - but you confirm anyway. Just don't be all day about it.

Once you've played both colors and have strong evidence for both colors, start early. That's the whole point of collecting evidence.

Once you've played both colors a couple times start at play 2. It's a good table or you wouldn't still be there WOULD YOU?

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Thanks again for your feedback Ellis!

When is 4D going to be avaiable for purchase? I was told by another member that it might be turfed since it can be too complex at times? Is this true and are you still testing it?

In one 47 min video you have on your site, I think you are showing 4D. It looks like a spreadsheet with around 7,8 or 9 columns...

Would I require a spreadsheet to play 4d at the casino? Would a casino even allow this? example using an Apple IPad at the table and using 4D?

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