thanks guys! and i do know the systems well and have also discovered my gotos Which are usually otb4l tbl & s40. And I have patience so I don't mind sitting out hands if I have to and i have If I feel like this system is fixing to change according to sap. I pride myself on discipline which I Believe determines if you're going to be a winner or loser in this. Of course I'm still learning! Love the forums! thanks again!