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Couple Questions - If I May


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Hi guys,

Just picked up the NOR manual today... and I am a bit confused. So taking it step by step.

The first thing I realized from reading NOR was that I need to know S40 / F / OTB4L

I have the S40 Manual and reading that now (and I have some questions below)

Question: Where do I find manuals, or specific rules for "F" and "OTB4L" - they are discussed in the NOR manual, but I think that is premised with the reader already knowing it, which I dont. Anyone send me a URL or PDF, please?

Question: What does "F" Stand for? and for that matter what does PvB stand for? Couldnt find either searching the site

Question: I lived in Vegas 10 years ago and played a lot of bac (wasnt doing well). Anyways I read on these forums that brand new cards are a good thing. With that said, many casinos (in Vegas) Have Big Bacc where the players touch the cards and they use brand new cards every shoe (at least they did back then) is it then a good idea to play those tables, if possilbe??

Moving on: In the S40 Manual I am learning how to do OR and the manual says to practice betting opposites for a few shoes. Below are my scorecards, would you mind critiquing them and letting me know if my OR and opposite bets are correct?

These are some WAY old shoes I save (10 + years ago). I realize one shoe has horrible results. To my understanding NOR will solve that. In any event I am not at that part yet - just need to know if I am doing OR and opposite betting correctly - If so, i'll move on to the next step of learning S40 - then on to F and OTB4L

Score Card 1:

[ATTACH]2392[/ATTACH]

Score Card 2:

[ATTACH]2393[/ATTACH]

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Hi guys,

Just picked up the NOR manual today... and I am a bit confused. So taking it step by step.

The first thing I realized from reading NOR was that I need to know S40 / F / OTB4L

I have the S40 Manual and reading that now (and I have some questions below)

Question: Where do I find manuals, or specific rules for "F" and "OTB4L" - they are discussed in the NOR manual, but I think that is premised with the reader already knowing it, which I dont. Anyone send me a URL or PDF, please?

Question: What does "F" Stand for? and for that matter what does PvB stand for? Couldnt find either searching the site

Question: I lived in Vegas 10 years ago and played a lot of bac (wasnt doing well). Anyways I read on these forums that brand new cards are a good thing. With that said, many casinos (in Vegas) Have Big Bacc where the players touch the cards and they use brand new cards every shoe (at least they did back then) is it then a good idea to play those tables, if possilbe??

Moving on: In the S40 Manual I am learning how to do OR and the manual says to practice betting opposites for a few shoes. Below are my scorecards, would you mind critiquing them and letting me know if my OR and opposite bets are correct?

These are some WAY old shoes I save (10 + years ago). I realize one shoe has horrible results. To my understanding NOR will solve that. In any event I am not at that part yet - just need to know if I am doing OR and opposite betting correctly - If so, i'll move on to the next step of learning S40 - then on to F and OTB4L

BTW guys, this is a different Davem - Not the Davem that recorded my shoes in AC and posted the results on ImSpirit under the user name Virtuoid.

Dave, the rules for S40, F and OTB4L are all in your NOR manual download after the introduction. They are only about one or two pages each. Check again. If you don't see them there has to be something wrong with your download.

Keith, can you check the download to be sure. I don't have it on my new computer.

Dave,

S40 stands for System 40. We call it that because on its initial casino test it won 40 shoes in a row played at 5 different casinos, 3 of them in Vegas. S402 = S40 Mode2. S403 = S40 Mode 3

F stands for Follow. F2 = Follow the 2; F3 = Follow the 3. (Mode 3)

OTB4L = Opposite the Time Before Last. We also call it OT, OT 2 and OT 3 for short, the numbers standing for Mode 2 and 3.

Mode 2 is the same for all 3 systems. Go OTR (on the run) after 2 losing bets

Mode 3 is also the same for all 3 systems. (Go OTR after 3 losing bets)

Your Mode is determined by the 3rd bet rule. In your manual.

NB stands for Net Bet

PvB, don't feel foolish, stands for Net Bet Player versus Bank and the rules are on your computer at the beginning of the thread PvB Net Betting for random cards.

OvR NB is Net Betting Opposites vs Repeats and has its own thread. You play this when your OR count keeps running close to O but you have high 3s and low 1s and your 1's are usually coming one at a time.

High 3s is more than 1 every 16 plays. Low 1s is less than 1 every 4 plays.

We use the apostrophe in 1's to differentiate it from the word "Is" but not for 2s or 3s, etc.

Events are 1's, 2s, 3s, etc. One in a rows, 2 in a rows, 3 in a rows, etc.

By "new cards" we are referring only to new cards that came to the table in 8 individual boxed card order decks as opposed to "preshuffled" that came to the table in an 8 deck bundle already shuffled.

NB, both PvB and OvR is mostly for preshuffled cards.

NOR is mosly for "Standard" cards that were not preshuffled, but were prepped at the table to open the table usually in the morning. Both card types can be new cards every shoe.

Vegas has both game types: For instance the middle isle at Gold Coast is new cards every shoe but preshuffled. Play NB. The wall isle is Standard cards and the same two shoes Blue and black, use the same cards all day. That is why you can't touch the cards in the wall isle but you can in the middle isle.

The most important thing is EVERYBODY starts out just as confused as you are right now but you'll soon see that this learning curve is very short.

Also, there is no such thing as a dumb question on this forum so ask away. I mean some of these guys when they started didn't even know what the hell all those circles were but now, many of them are pros.

An Opposite is a circle on the opposite side of the prior circle and a Repeat is a circle on the same side as the prior circle. In your OR count Opposites are +1 and Repeats are -1. You don't count the first circle because there was no prior circle to tell you what Play#1 was. A + OR count is a choppy shoe (S40). A minus OR count is a streaky shoe (F) and an OR count hovering 0 is a Neutral shoe (OTB4L) or NB OvR.

Preshuffled cards and very old cards (late night) are usually NB shoes.

Standard cards are usually NOR.

New cards are usually OTB4L and sometimes S40 but almost never F.

Standard cards usually have consistency shoe to shoe especially of the same color.

Preshuffled usually have no shoe to shoe consistency.

We therefore prefer standard cards.

Preshuffled is new since you last played. I think preshuffled should be illegal because there is no way for you to know if all the cards are there.

YOU can and should avoid preshuffled cards but our Singapore players can't.

Hope this helps.

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THank you Ellis. Will read more tonight. I've been doing practice on just opposites and making sure I have it all correct. I am going to post more later, but I suppose I'll put them in the S40 section. Anyone have a chance to look at my cards to see if my counts are correct?

Thanks !!

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THank you Ellis. Will read more tonight. I've been doing practice on just opposites and making sure I have it all correct. I am going to post more later, but I suppose I'll put them in the S40 section. Anyone have a chance to look at my cards to see if my counts are correct?

Thanks !!

Actually, I figured someone else would do this. But I'll take a look in the morning if no one else has responded by then.

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OK Davem, your OR counts are correct. Once tou know how to bet opposites you are more than half way to knowing S40. Once you get into the 3 NOR systems, you'll find them childishly simple each only requiring a little practice. The hard part is learning which system to play and when to switch and perhaps more importantly when not to switch.

I want you to get to the point where you can glance at a tote board two isles over and know which system to play.

Also study the NOR Questions thread and if its full, start a new thread and call it NOR Questions 2.

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