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Getting on to a run quicker with ADNet and etc?

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Hi All,

I haven't seen a recent post regarding it, so i decided to create a new thread.

I've read the previous threads on ADnet, and as I recall, there were comments by Ellis saying to "use as a last resort". I think the post is almost 2 years old now - so I was just curious: Ellis has your position changed in any way?

The reason I ask is:

After reviewing the shoes I have played at the local casinos lately, I've started to realize that a lot of the shoes I play, tend to be mixed-type shoes. Where I am located (Calgary), I've noticed that most of the shoes I play are predominately F or S40 biased shoes (I'm only seeing OTB4L about 15-20% of the time). In many cases, they seem to be mixed - in the sense they start off as S40 and switch to F (or vice versa with TT runs added in the odd time). I typically do well enough to get out with a profit, but sometimes, winning just 1 unit sucks (still better than losing 1 unit - I know) when the shoe decides to "switch it up" and throw you a "curve-ball".

I find many times the culprits are usually hitting 343 type patterns early enough when playing F or S40 - which seems to occur semi-regularly in the F/S40 shoes I have played. I know OTB4L can beat that pattern, but the rest of the shoe would technically decimate OTB4L with the dominance of 11213-like patterns (usually that's how the shoes start); and like I've seen posted many times by others - switching systems is typically a bad idea!

So I went through the old scorecards using the rules for ADN, and found many times, I'm usually up more (or the same) - with less swings in betting and typically hitting my 10+ unit goal much faster than with standard S40 or F. I find I hit both straight runs and ZZ runs much faster than I've seen with OTB4L+ (on an OTB4L shoe of course), especially when you see a 8+iar (straight or ZZ) in the first 12 or so hands. Also with the bet suspension rules, I find it easily avoids the TT runs ADN hates; much faster in most cases than M1/M2/M3 switching in the other systems to avoid their weaknesses.

So just curious - is anyone out there using ADN on a more than usual basis vs the other systems? How does it fair for you?

Are there any pitfalls I should be concerned about when using this system (other than overlooking the other systems that may give me a better expected return)?

Thanks in Advance,


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Hi PB! The first thing I'd like to know is exactly which Baccarat presentation the Galgary area uses??? are they touch or no touch or both. Is it regular cards (starting with 8 individual sealed decks) or preshuffled cards (starting with an 8 deck bundle)?

I have noted before that Canadian casinos tend to go off on their own tangent. We see a different shoe type than Vegas or the States in general. This is because every casino is trying to beat the players they get and US players tend to be a little more experienced than Canadian players simply because Bac has been around a little longer here.

For instance, US casinos know that if they present an F shoe they are going to get killed. This is because US casinos started out with F shoes and US players quickly became experienced in how to beat them. But this is probably not true yet in Canada.

That said, the first rule in Baccarat is to play whatever beats what you are seeing most at the casino you are playing.

So you are doing the right thing experimenting with different systems. And you are doing this the right way - at home rather than at the casino.

And if you are finding that ADN is best for what you are seeing then that is what you base with. BTW, that was true here just a few years ago but not anymore. So it is not surprising to me at all that is what you are now seeing there.

So OK, you base with ADN but ADN has a losing pattern. I think it was the TTs but don't take my word for that - getting old.

So you must have a plan in your quiver of what to do when you hit that losing pattern - whatever it was. As I recall there were several suggestions in the ADN section that all worked at specific casinos. Not good enough! You need to know what works best at the casinos you are playing. That is kitchen table experimentation. You may find something simple like stop betting until the offending pattern dissolves.

So OK, you are winning with whatever you are doing. However slight that may be, it is still better than 99% of the other players. My advice is keep up with what you are doing and continue to perfect it to beat what you are seeing. In other words I think you are on the right track. I remember those days fondly right here not that many years ago. ADN used to be the system of choice here - just not any more. So it is not that surprising that it still is there. I'm guessing that Canadian casinos, in general, are about 8 years behind US casinos. But every casino does whatever currently works best for them. That is exactly what makes them beatable by a smart player who knows what's going on.

So keep up the good work and make it even better!

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Hi Ellis!

Thanks for the quick and detailed reply. Totally makes sense that Canada would be behind (there are a lot more Casino Patrons in the US, hence more astute players the Casinos there would have to deal with).

So to answer the questions regarding presentation:

With the exception of one Casino (they still offer Mini Bac), they all run EZBaccarat. The higher limits tend to offer touch, and the lower limits are non-touch. I tend to gravitate towards non-touch (it goes at a steadier pace), but I've taken notes on both and they seem to produce the same shoes based on the deck colors I have noted (not sure if you see it in the US, but the Casinos here have more than 5 different colors like Orange, Purple, Dark Blue, Light Blue).

As far as I can tell, they all use preshuffled cards in a bundle (although I think might be 6 decks vs 8, since the typical # of hands is on average 50-ish) - one casino then hand shuffles in front of you before burning and dealing; all the other Casinos put into shuffle machines before using the alternate color for dealing.

Anyways, thanks for all the advice and quick reply to my questions.



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  • 1 year later...

Across Down Net betting would be good except it loses to TT runs PP BB PP BB. That pattern is too common and is therefore a fatal blow. No attempt to fix it worked long run.

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