Types of shuffling

[Danicito]

Hello to all.

What kind of shuffling generates more random shoes? and the opposite, what kind of shuffling generates more biased shoes?.

1. When the dealer just shuffles the cards, or

2. When the dealer washes the cards and then he shuffles the cards

This question is because I am playing in casinos that use these kind of shuffling and they are giving me different patterns.

Thanks.

[Danicito]

has someone played in these two types of cards?

[Guest]

Hello to all.

What kind of shuffling generates more random shoes? and the opposite, what kind of shuffling generates more biased shoes?.

1. When the dealer just shuffles the cards, or

2. When the dealer washes the cards and then he shuffles the cards

This question is because I am playing in casinos that use these kind of shuffling and they are giving me different patterns.

Thanks.

Hi Danicito!

First, recognize that for us (NOR and NOR+ Players) Random is a bias in itself. It is an OTB4L bias and the most common bias these days. But it is the bias that our players miss the most often because chop and streak biases are so much more obvious.

In general here is what the casinos have known for at least 35 years: the more cards are shuffled, the chopier the shoe. The less they are shuffled, the streakier the shoe. And right in the middle is random/ OTB4L. I don't know if anyone, including the casinos, know why this is so. In fact the why is not important. But casinos use years of cause and effect shuffle data. They are never wrong.

Likewise, different new card preps produce different results. The bottom line of all this is that casinos can prep and shuffle, including shuffle machines, to produce the shoe type they consider most advantageous to them. And today it is usually OTB4L because Neutral shoes beat all known systems - ha, except for us. NOR OTB4L loves random shoes - much to the casino's surprise and dismay.

In fact, I was ejected from Foxwood for timing the wash with a stop watch. Yeah, yeah it was stupid of me because I could easily have done it W/O being so obvious. The question is: Why should they care?

Well I'll tell you why. This was a new standard 8 deck cards every shoe, 14 player high stakes table. A 30 second wash meant streak - every freaking time. A 60 second wash meant chop - every freaking time. They ejected me for discovering their secret. Think of the huge advantage you have if you always know whether the next shoe is going to be chop or streak. I was pretty sure before they ejected me. But when they ejected me I was dead sure. BTW, this was before they learned how to shuffle for Neutral. But that didn't take them long.

BTW, most casinos today only do a wash in the card prep for new cards. And this, only for 8 decks of standard cards.

Here is another post on the same subject from yesterday:

"Re: 60 shoes from may 6 vegas trip

Norm was telling me that one of the gulf coast casinos he played that uses regular cards (8 individual boxed card order decks)

that just went through their standard card prep, were very streaky. Yet below I said that such cards would favor OTB4L the first few shoes. My statement below was incomplete:

Here's what is going on with that: Casinos have been experimenting with card preps for 40 years. A card prep is the initial shuffling procedure only brand new standard cards go through and it usually includes a wash.They know exactly what each of their standard card preps produce both in Bac and BJ. So they select the card prep that usually beats the type of player they mostly get.

Some casinos cater to mostly vacation type players. A streak card prep usually beats their players.

Some casinos cater to experienced streak players (Atlantic City). These players often play up as you win Fibonacis. So the casino is going to throw pure chop at them. Remember when I won the 6 straight shoes in AC. I played only S40 because I was getting pure chop in both casinos at all 4 tables.

But most casinos will use an OTB4L prep because it beats all KNOWN Baccarat systems. Recognize that our OTB4L system is NOT a known system.

Also preshuffled cards tend to favor OTB4L at least somewhat. Now you know why.

The important point you need to grasp out of all this is to know what shoe type the casino you are playing is favoring.

Remember PJ's 10 shoes from Gold Strike/Horseshoe, Tunica. He played straight OTB4L at all times of day and won every shoe as I recall. But he didn't start out with that. The first system he tried was not working out well. So he switched to OTB4L. The 10 shoes he posted were only the shoes he played after switching to OTB4L. It is usually right but definitely not always.

That word "usually" keeps coming up in Baccarat discussion. They could have named the game "Usually"

Or, totally inexperienced onlookers would think the name of the game is "Oh Shit"!"

OK, I'm back.

BTW, casinos use a very similar strategy in BJ. They deploy shuffles and shuffle machines that preserve clumping.

Why? Simple: The more the cards are clumped the less the dealer breaks! A simple fact of life in the world of casino gambling.