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Help needed in understanding the NOR manual


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Hi Ellis,

I am new to NOR forum and have a few questions to ask after reading the NOR manual. Hope you can help me to clear my doubt.

Question 1:

In the NOR manual page 18, it is stated:

Normally, 1's are half of all events, 2s are a quarter of all events and 3 or mores are also a quarter of all events.

- We like tote boards that are very high in 1's and ZZ runs (S40)

- We like tote boards that are very high in both 1's and 2s (S40)

- We like tote boards low in 1„s but high in 2s and 3s (OTB4L)

- We like tote boards high in 3 or mores ( F )

- We like Strong Sided tote boards (F)

Are my below understanding of low/high/very high in an event reasonable?

- Very high in 1's: 1's events >= 70% of the total events

- Very high in both 1's and 2s: 1's + 2s events >= 90%, 50% >= 2s events >= 30% of the total events

- Low in 1's but high in 2s and 3+s: 1's events <= 40%, and 2s + 3+s events >= 60%

- High in 3+s: 3+s events >= 40%

Question 2:

In the NOR manual page 22, it is stated:

Anyway:We pay very close attention to the hit rate especially of the first bet of our progression but also to the first and 2nd bets together.In Mode 2 and in Mode 2 only, when we see a high first bet hit rate plus, we are winning our 3rd OTR bets we upgrade our progression to 234 and then 345, but never higher.

The "first bet hit rate" you mean include the hit rate for 1st bet and 2nd bets together, or just include the hit rate for 1st bet?

(The reason why i asked this question is that you first sentence says "especially of the first bet but also to the first and 2nd bets together")

"we are winning our 3rd OTR bets" here do you mean we have been playing 3 times of OTR (some OTR may bet twices, some OTR bet once) and we have been winning all the 3 times of OTR (or just need the 3rd OTR to be won)?

Question 3:

This question is not from the NOR manual, but i read one of you post from the forum (sorry i cann't remember the link), so would like to clarify

You said When PVB count is at 8v12, 9v11, or 10v10, it is good net betting signals. what does net betting mean here? (123 prog, or S40, or anything else)

Thank You,

Kevin

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Well Hi Kevin and welcome to the NOR forum - finally

You are from Singapore, right?

I like to know where my students are from so I know what kind of cards they are up against. Singapore is preshuffled.

You are already asking the right questions so I expect a lot out of you.

You'll need to read the NOR manual many times as you get to understand our terminology. We pretty much have our own language.

But you'll get used to it quickly. Everyone is bewildered at first. We are used to that. But the light bulbs will start turning on soon enough.

Are you planning to start playing on line or in the Singapore casinos???

OK, FIRST, in your we like tote boards quote add this one:

We like tote boards that are low in 2s and high in everything else (TB4L)

Now you've got the whole water front covered.

But you hit the nail on the head with your first questions.

Knowing which events are running above normal AND below normal is the single most important talent in Baccarat!

Because that is the best indicator of which system to play or switch to.

I want you to get to the point where you can walk down the casino isle and read the tote boards at a glance and KNOW which table will be the easiest to beat. This game is not about beating tough tables. That's for the amateurs. Success is about only playing the easiest tables to beat. We are not there to be heros. We are there to get the money. It's not a game anymore. It's a business.

So your first question was how do you know which events are running high and which events are low.

We'll be teaching you how to perform an SAP count. That compares all the events in a shoe telling you what is running high and whats running low and precisely how high and how low.

But for now:

1's are normally one every 4 plays

2s are one every 8 plays

3s are one every 16 plays

4s are one every 32 plays, etc.

Get the picture?

We call that the 50% rule.

Get used to doing your score card in columns of 20 plays

1's are 5 per col.

2s are half that

3s are half that etc

Get so you can tell at a glance what a col is high in and low in.

Even if you just draw a line after every 20 plays.

I recommend you start with on line casinos but not today. AFTER you know what you are doing.

Pick only a live game on line casino.

STUDY that casino thoroughly first. Case the joint like a bank robber would.

They do let you play on line from Singapore, right?

The guys here can recommend the best on line casinos.

The advantage is you can practice for free

And when you are ready, you can play for less money while you are learning.

So far all on line casinos are regular cards.

New Regular cards first come to the table in 8 sealed boxes in boxed card order.

Factory preshuffled first came to the table in an 8 deck numbered "bundle".

You aren't ready for those yet but eventually you will be.

True, you don't have as much information on line as you will learn to glean from a real casino.

But you will quickly learn how to get enough information to beat them.

OK your second question was about progressions

Look, you will soon learn how to bet U1D2 (Up 1 on a loss, down 2 on a win)

But you aren't ready for that yet.

Start out with a simple 123 up as you lose, back to 1 when you win. We call that a "negative prgression".

BTW, the whole Baccarat world has learned to use OUR terminology. It has become an industry standard.

Hell even casinos use OUR terminology now.

Anyway, and this is real scientific:

Your 1 bets are your "first bets"

Your 2 bets are your "second bets" and

Your 3 bets are you "3rd bets"

Get it?

Your 3rd question was about Net Betting.

Net betting is a completely different way of playing that I developed years ago..

It bets less but wins more.

It is highly effective on line.

AND it is highly effective against preshuffled cards (Singapore)

There are some pretty good old threads on the NOR forum in the NOR archives you can look up.

But there are new threads on the MDB forum BECAUSE the MDB forum is mostly dedicated to preshuffled cards and on line play.

We don't have a lot of members who are NOR only members. Most NOR members are also MDB members.

So I don't think they will mind much if I make the new Net Bet instruction also visible to you.

That will take some doing.

So for now concentrate on NOR. You'll have your hands full for a while.

Edited by Ellis
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Hi Ellis,

Thank you very much for your detail explanation and recommendation. You words and wisdom made me much easier in understanding NOR. I think the NOR manual is quite good in term of explaining the concept in switch mode, select system and so on. Previously in the open forum, i tried to link those info mentioned by you but found that i was always lacking something. Now after reading NOR and reading forum thread, i can link them. So it just need to take some time for me to practise and build the concept into my mind

Yes, I am from Singapore. I am actually open to either playing on line or in the Singapore casinos. But i suspect in Singapore play online is prohibited by law (Maybe other members from singapore can correct me if i am wrong). I may go to Macau to play occasionally if i can have a consistent winning rate in the future

Personally for me to practise and test a system, i will use excel to implement my ideas and perform simulation on shoe data. Through this way i can verify whether i did really understand NOR.

So can you recommend a good place to download pre-shuffled shoe data as well as real card shoe data, so that i can do simulation on both to verify i have fully mastered the NOR concept.

Thank You,

Kevin

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Hi Ellis,

Thank you very much for your detail explanation and recommendation. You words and wisdom made me much easier in understanding NOR. I think the NOR manual is quite good in term of explaining the concept in switch mode, select system and so on. Previously in the open forum, i tried to link those info mentioned by you but found that i was always lacking something. Now after reading NOR and reading forum thread, i can link them. So it just need to take some time for me to practise and build the concept into my mind

Yes, I am from Singapore. I am actually open to either playing on line or in the Singapore casinos. But i suspect in Singapore play online is prohibited by law (Maybe other members from singapore can correct me if i am wrong). I may go to Macau to play occasionally if i can have a consistent winning rate in the future

Personally for me to practise and test a system, i will use excel to implement my ideas and perform simulation on shoe data. Through this way i can verify whether i did really understand NOR.

So can you recommend a good place to download pre-shuffled shoe data as well as real card shoe data, so that i can do simulation on both to verify i have fully mastered the NOR concept.

Thank You,

Kevin

Well the guys here can help you better than me re finding the best sites. On line gambling is also illegal in the State of Arkansas.

But some off shore on line casinos have ways around that. They probably do in Singapore too.

I do not recommend RG (Random Generator) sites for NOR even for practice because NOR functions on the biases caused by casino shuffle techniques.

But later, you can use them for practice playing MDB+ which is designed for random as well as preshuffled cards - not quite the same thing but close enough for practice and for teaching demonstrations.

I don't know of any trustworthy sites that use preshuffled cards but maybe the guys do.

Norm posted 60 actual Las Vegas casino shoes here that were either all or mostly preshuffled. He averaged 6 units/per shoe BTW - not bad.

The problem is that casinos, including Singapore, buy preshuffled cards arranged in specific card orders. Card orders they consider casino favorable. But the specific card orders each casino guys is, of course, a closely guarded secret. This is one of the reasons why published casino Baccarat profits defy the 50/50 + commission odds of the game. But another reason is general player stupidity.

All we know for sure is that preshuffled cards overall are closer to random than regular cards. That does not mean there aren't any exceptions - sometimes we see perfect NOR shoes in preshuffled casinos - but not as a general rule.

For now, until you are in a position to learn MDB+, Net Betting is said to be highly effective by our players who frequent Las Vegas casinos. I'm sure the same will be true for Singapore casinos. The cards don't know what country they are in.

That is why I want to make recent Net Betting instruction available to you. But meanwhile you can look up old NOR Net Betting threads to get a general idea of it. It is a very clever way of playing that doesn't care about biases at all. BUt it DOES care about whether your shoe is generally choppy or streaky - so you want to learn how to perform an O/R count.

Ultimately, especially for Singapore casinos, you want to learn MDB+ what we call the 5 of a kind system. It has a better than 80% win rate against preshuffled cards and it never bets more than 4 units and it bets FAR less often than any other system in Baccarat. You can also play it 3 Hi when you are first learning it, if you want. It is ridiculously simple, oh, sorry way2fast, but HIGHLY effective especially against preshuffled cards.

BTW, many of our players here pay for their upgrades with winnings. I expect YOU to be one of those.

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Hi Ellis,

Thank you very much for your detail explanation and recommendation. You words and wisdom made me much easier in understanding NOR. I think the NOR manual is quite good in term of explaining the concept in switch mode, select system and so on. Previously in the open forum, i tried to link those info mentioned by you but found that i was always lacking something. Now after reading NOR and reading forum thread, i can link them. So it just need to take some time for me to practise and build the concept into my mind

Yes, I am from Singapore. I am actually open to either playing on line or in the Singapore casinos. But i suspect in Singapore play online is prohibited by law (Maybe other members from singapore can correct me if i am wrong). I may go to Macau to play occasionally if i can have a consistent winning rate in the future

Personally for me to practise and test a system, i will use excel to implement my ideas and perform simulation on shoe data. Through this way i can verify whether i did really understand NOR.

So can you recommend a good place to download pre-shuffled shoe data as well as real card shoe data, so that i can do simulation on both to verify i have fully mastered the NOR concept.

Thank You,

Kevin

Well the guys here can help you better than me re finding the best sites. On line gambling is also illegal here in the State of Arkansas.

But some off shore on line casinos have ways around that. They probably do in Singapore too.

I do not recommend RG (Random Generator) sites for NOR even for practice because NOR functions on the biases caused by casino shuffle techniques.

But later, you can use them for practice playing MDB+ which is designed for random as well as preshuffled cards - not quite the same thing but close enough for practice and for teaching demonstrations.

I don't know of any trustworthy sites that use preshuffled cards but maybe the guys do.

Norm posted 60 actual Las Vegas casino shoes here that were either all or mostly preshuffled. He averaged 6 units/per shoe BTW - not bad.

The problem is that casinos, including Singapore, buy preshuffled cards arranged in specific card orders. Card orders they consider casino favorable. But the specific card orders each casino guys is, of course, a closely guarded secret. This is one of the reasons why published casino Baccarat profits defy the 50/50 + commission odds of the game. But another reason is general player stupidity.

All we know for sure is that preshuffled cards overall are closer to random than regular cards. That does not mean there aren't any exceptions - sometimes we see perfect NOR shoes in preshuffled casinos - but not as a general rule.

For now, until you are in a position to learn MDB+, Net Betting is said to be highly effective by our players who frequent Las Vegas casinos. I'm sure the same will be true for Singapore casinos. The cards don't know what country they are in.

That is why I want to make recent Net Betting instruction available to you. But meanwhile you can look up old NOR Net Betting threads to get a general idea of it. It is a very clever way of playing that doesn't care about biases at all. BUt it DOES care about whether your shoe is generally choppy or streaky - so you want to learn how to perform an O/R count.

Ultimately, especially for Singapore casinos, you want to learn MDB+ what we call the 5 of a kind system. It has a better than 80% win rate against preshuffled cards and it never bets more than 4 units and it bets FAR less often than any other system in Baccarat. You can also play it 3 Hi when you are first learning it, if you want. It is ridiculously simple, oh, sorry way2fast, but HIGHLY effective, especially against preshuffled cards.

BTW, many of our players here pay for their upgrades with winnings. I expect YOU to be one of those.

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Hi Ellis,

I got two new questions after reading the NOR manual again. In page 15 of NOR manual, it is stated that:

But, with OTB4L you lose to both to both Straight AND ZZ runs so both run types must be considered separately and you must go OTR on Both run types after either 2 or 3 losing bets against both run types

But recognize that you can easily be in one Mode for one run type and the other Mode for the other run type

So if my system is OTB4L and i was to use SAP count to decide which mode to use, i would need to keep track of both the count of straight run (4s vs 5s) as well as the count of zz run (4s vs 5s)?

For example, if currently there is only one straight run 5s and one zz run 4s, when i lose 2 bets to 4 in a row, i will use mode 2 to bet straight OTR.

Then later when i lose 2 bets to a zz run of 4s, i will use mode 3 and need continue bet one more time OTB4L, if i lose the third bet, then i will bet zz OTR, is that correct?

==================================================================================================

Updated on 7 Nov 2014: I figured out that the answer to my question is Yes. We need to keep track of both the count of straight run (4s vs 5s) as well as the count of zz run (4s vs 5s)

Best Regards,

Kevin

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