epstein Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 I just want to discuss further for this TRICK that done by Phil Iveyfrom previous threadhttp://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8269&page=3&p=46045#post46045What is edge sorting?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khCM9WmI0uQPhil Ivey...probably the best poker player in the world even uses Edge Sorting when playing Baccarat.He made millions from it!I say good for him!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_sortingEdge sorting is a technique used in advantage gambling where a player determines whether a face-down playing card is likely to be low or high at casino table games by observing and exploiting subtle unintentional differences on the backs of some types of card, after persuading a croupier to cooperate by unwittingly sorting the cards into low and high. Some packs of cards produced by some manufacturers have an unintentional regularity. Typically all the backs of the cards in such a pack are identical, but the two long edges of each card are consistently distinguishable: the pattern is not symmetrical to a 180Â° rotation (half a full turn). During the course of a game, a player will ask the dealer, a casino employee, to rotate some face-up cards, perhaps saying they feel it will bring them luck. The dealer does not realise that cards are being turned so that low cards, typically, 6, 7, 8, or 9 are one way round, high cards the other way round, and that the edges are different. The dealer is also asked to shuffle the cards with an automatic shuffler, which does not change the orientation as a manual shuffle may do. The dealer is not obliged to comply with these requests, but will usually do so if thought to be due to gamblers' superstition or mistrust. Over the course of a game, low cards will tend to be oriented one way, high cards the other. Once a significant proportion of cards have been rotated, any player who knows this can gain a statistical edge more than outweighing house edge by using the knowledge whether the card to be turned is likely to be low or high.A UK High Court judgement ruled that the technique, which requires the player to trick the croupier into rotating cards, is cheating in civil law, and that a casino was justified in refusing payment of winnings; this ruling would not be applicable if the player simply took advantage of an observed error or anomaly for which he was not responsible in, say, the backs of the cards.LegalityCasinos usually regard this technique as cheating; many players consider that they are legitimately playing to gain an advantage.In 2012 poker player Phil Ivey won US$9.6 million playing baccarat at the Borgata casino with partner Cheng Yin Sun. In April 2014 the Borgata filed a lawsuit against Ivey for his winnings.Later in 2012 he was reported to have won Â£7.7 million (approx. $11 million) playing punto banco, a version of baccarat, at Crockford's casino in London. Crockford's refunded his Â£1 million stake and agreed to send him his winnings, but ultimately refused payment. Ivey sued them for payment, but lost in the UK High Court; it was judged that the edge counting was "cheating for the purpose of civil law".It was accepted that Mr Ivey and others genuinely considered that edge sorting was not cheating, and deemed immaterial that the casino could easily have protected itself. Critically, the judgement pointed out that Ivey had gained an advantage by actively using a croupier as his innocent agent, rather than taking advantage of an error or anomaly on the casino's part. 'I read the cards but I'm no cheat': A gambler who is suing Britainâ€™s oldest casino for withholding his Â£7.8 million payout has admitted he did win the cash by â€˜readingâ€™ the cards.Phil Ivey, dubbed the Tiger Woods of poker, says he used a legitimate technique called â€˜edge sortingâ€™ to identify cards during a game of punto banco, a type of baccarat based purely on luck. But he vehemently denies cheating.However, Mayfair club Crockfords believes he â€˜operated a scamâ€™ and claims he â€˜acted to defeat the essential premise of the gameâ€™ â€“ and is refusing to hand over his winnings. Mr Ivey â€“ a professional American poker player â€“ is suing the casino in the High Court and the case, the biggest legal battle in casino history, is due to be heard later this year.In May, The Mail on Sunday reported details of Mr Iveyâ€™s win â€“ and revealed that the casino had not paid out because it believed he had been reading the cards. In his court submission â€“ seen by The Mail on Sunday â€“ multi-millionaire Mr Ivey, 37 admits to being an â€˜advantage playerâ€™ â€“ someone who uses legal ways to gain a mathematical advantage over the casino.Playing punto banco over two nights in August last year, Mr Ivey says he was able to exploit tiny flaws in the design of the cards â€“ asymmetrical pattern differences on the rear that are the result of mistakes made during the manufacturing process.It was well known in the industry around this time, according to Mr Iveyâ€™s claim, that players might be able to use imperfectly cut cards to their advantage. Because of this, the claim adds, the casino should have thoroughly checked them before use.On his visit to Crockfords, Mr Ivey was accompanied by a Chinese associate known as Kelly, who was adept at â€˜identifying the design flawsâ€™.Mr Iveyâ€™s claim says: â€˜During the second session on August 20 [Mr Ivey] made various requests for decks of cards to be changed at the end of hands with which [Crockfords] chose to comply. This continued until Kelly identified a deck or decks of cards where the pattern on the reverse side of the cards was asymmetrical (in that one â€œlongâ€™â€™ side was different from the opposite side).â€™Outlining how the pair managed to â€˜edge sortâ€™ the deck, the claim says: â€˜Kelly would ask the dealer to reveal each card in turn by lifting the edge furthest from the dealer so that Kelly could identify whether the card was a seven, eight, or nine â€“ the key cards in punto banco.The first time that Kelly identified a key card, she told the dealer that it was a 'good' card which she wanted the dealer to rotate in the opposite direction to all the other cards and the dealer complied with the request. â€˜In this way, the long edges of the key card became distinguishable from those of the other cards.â€™Over the course of time, â€˜the cards in the deck were increasingly orientated so that â€œgoodâ€ and â€œbadâ€ cards faced in the opposite directionâ€™.This meant that Mr Ivey was later able to recognise the key cards and bet accordingly.Initially, he was betting Â£50,000 a hand but, having edge sorted the cards, he asked the casinoâ€™s permission to raise the maximum stake to Â£150,000. Mr Ivey maintains in his claim that Crockfordsâ€™ owners were well aware how edge sorting worked and only have themselves to blame. He says that casinos frequently accede to advantage playersâ€™ special requests because they do not want to deter them from playing.Crockfords, the oldest private gaming club in the world, initially agreed to transfer Mr Iveyâ€™s winnings to his bank account, but has returned only his Â£1million stake.The casino is owned by Genting, a Malaysian gaming corporation, which sent investigators to London to question employees and scrutinise hours of CCTV footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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