CdnChamer
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Posts posted by CdnChamer
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I agree with Oz on conservative Bankroll equation. I personally have 50 to a hundred units as my backing bankroll and have no need to visit an ATM for my cash to go to the casino.
Have a sound system along with large bankroll and discipline and proper money management is key to survival in a risky environment, .... The casino.
CC
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I Need your help!
I'm posting this on the NOR forum where hopfully everyone will see it.
I need to send the complete MDB member list to Keith so that the right people have access to the new MDB forum but nobody else.
I've got everything squared away except I'm still missing 5 user names.
Len Parchewsky
Chris Armes
Moro Arakaki
J E Jefferson
Relate Right Inc.
Would each of you five please email me your BTC user name at my private Email address ellis_858@hotmail.com
Thanks
Hi Ellis, as signing up a new member(s), I'm still waiting for a reply of a pm I sent you and Keith one week ago.... Regarding issues and question about MDB... Do you not want my money?
Seriously, I'm trying to be nice here, Neither you or Keith have replied...
Look forward to hearing from you.
CC
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I guess it's time to do my discourse on flat betting again.
Look, for the 500th time: The ONLY time you are better off flat betting is when you are losing. That is pure mathematical fact.
But Ellis, "I'm going to net bet normally except I'm going to always bet 1 unit regardless of what the net bet calls for."
Sure OK except you have guaranteed a LOSS. Mathematically GUARANTEED a loss. Look, high side net betting ALWAYS puts you on the side winning the least. ALLfreakingWAYS. No ifs ands or buts about it. Therefore if you flat bet net betting you lose - mathematically guaranteed.
But Ellis,"If I flat bet all I have to do is win more than half the hands".
Yeah great RXCEPT that if you win more than half the hands you ALWAYS win more with the right progression. ALLfreakingWAYS. That's simple math.
Again: You win every other hand for 20 plays: Great, you matched the normal game odds of the game.
If you flat, your score is ZERO.
If you bet a simple 1,2 prog, your score is +10.
Which do you prefer?
Look, watch my lips: flat betting is for losers. Always has been, always will be. NO player has EVER consistently beat this game flat betting. NONE, no time, EVER. Do you get it? MANY have tried. None ever succeeded. NONE, NADA, ZERO!
I've seen situation where flat betting. Believe or not ... Outperformed a progression as a prog digs deeper and on U1D2 can happen whereas U1D1 may be different and can all depend on what step of the progg you are at.
Even a progg can lose when you have more wins than losses. It's the successive losses that bury you.
CC
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There are some interesting flat bet exceptions for the mathematically clever:
SAP for one but it must be played correctly. and virtually no one plays it correctly. Virtually All the SAP players know to bet against least common events and ON the most common events. Good but that is only half of SAP. The part they don't get is events running normal. It is a VERY good bet to also bet toward normal on events running normal. That way you have a good flat bet system.
Another entirely different flat bet opportunity is to net bet low side (place your bet on the side of the lowest entry instead of the highest entry). I could never get this to work betting a progression. But flat betting it is a whole different story.
See, just as net betting on the high side always puts you on the side winning the least, low side net betting ALWAYS puts you on the side winningt the MOST often - ALWAYS.
THEREFORE: If you net bet low side, no matter what you net bet, you are eventually always up 1 unit at some point. It's just one of those math peculiarities. Nobody ever paid it any mind before because it is just ONE unit.
BUT, what if you are betting $10,000 units?!?!?
So, instead of net betting the lowest disparity high side shooting for +5, you would net bet the highest disparity low side shooting for +1.
So, if you want to experiment with flat betting.....
Interested?
Let me give you an example:
Let's say you are going to simply net bet PvB right from play #1 for 5 plays.
What is the worst thing that could possibly happen from a disparity stand point. A 5iar, Right?
OK, lets see what happens if we net bet low side and the shoe starts with 5 players.
OK, our P entries are 11111, right?
Our B entries are 12345, right?
Got that so far?
OK each play we do our net bet thing and subtract the low entry from the high entry and table bet the difference.
Fine, except now we are going to place our bet on the side of the LOW entry instead of the high entry. Got it?
Fine, try it. You are already +1 at play 2. Do not pass GO. Collect $10,000. Your commission is ZERO.
Got your attention now?
How did I do that?
FIRST, determine which of the 4 disparities is the HIGHEST disparity rather than the lowest.
That should take you about a dozen plays or so.
Then net bet the highest disparity placing your bet on the side of the lowest entry instead of the highest.
Quit at +1.
That's it.
OK, go out and do that and send me $5000.
Today if possible.
C'mon... It's not nearly this difficult when using a rock solid system like 4D. Met betting is only required when you encounter successive a losses using other system where NOR has trouble.
Like I said this was low -1. And high of +9 flat betting. Fantastic ratio
CC
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[ATTACH]2880[/ATTACH]
This could be the longest shoe in the history of Baccarat???
I think this casino is still regular cards so we are thinking NOR and hoping to go to NOR+
The OR count is going nowhere so we are thinking OTB4L and looking for a good place to start.
There is an early 3, ideal to start OTB4L so we start at play 6.
That way the only thing that can beat me is a 6+. Very unlikely.
All goes well to play 13. The OR count is so nonexistent so far so as to be virtually meaningless. So I go to the next best indicator. There have been no triple 1's in this shoe thus far. In fact the first double has just occurred this play. So I decide NOT to bet on a triple 1 at play 14. It is a very close call and you might well have gone for the triple. But, no worries, you would have lost the 3 but won the 4,2 and come out just fine.
Our next decision comes up at play 32. A 0 OR count is mode 2 because thats usually cheapest. We win so we try one more OTR since we are in Mode 2 but it loses so next time we won't try. (play 45)
Clear sailing all the way to the first 7iar. I don't attempt a 2nd OTR because it wouldn't have worked last time. But I'm wrong so the next run I stay OTR for 2 bets.
Either way 7s can't hurt you. See that? Just play them by the book.
So, an ideal shoe. +49 with a highest bet of 3.
Had I made the mistake of starting with S40 I definitely would have switched to OTB4L when it started raining 2s. BUT, see all those zeros in the OR count? That is definitely OTB4L no matter what 2s are doing.
From my information about niagara is they are pre-shuffled shoes and 4D would be +5 at hand 16 using 2hi betting, and if you flat bet for a target of +3, you'd be out at hand 14
If you had played longer, flat betting hit a +9 units at hand 72 and low of -1. If you used U1D2, +25 but I don't care about high numbers, I like +5 for million $ plan.
CC
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Sorry but You can not track just 2 columns like p/b and 0/r you need at least 4 biases or at least 8 columns to be tracked to see any biases
Sorry to rain on your parade, but you are dead wrong. I don't mean this in a negative way of speaking, but you are not correct.
I've offered plenty of hints and people need to really put on their thinking caps and allow their minds to be creative and perceive events differently than a logical view.
I did say that 9 out of those 10 shoes played had won, but on the one that lost -3 units.... My head wasn't handed to me. That's the power of the 4D, it curve fits to the shoe an survives with minimal damage.
Don't give up.
CC
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I think this was also my general question. Perhaps to be answered later. If we are to start one of the three systems from NOR on play 2, and require no table bias due to the mathematics of the progression, does it matter which of the three systems we start with at play 2. If it does, how do we know which system so early in a shoe? Intriguing tidbits from Ellis!
Fatherfred is correct on a sentence in his statement, 4D actually identifies when to start, but not before hand 7. It "curve fits" the shoe with imbalance at tines and manages to balance out naturally to give you +5 or +6, and then you're out.
For Those Flat bettors out there, your target is +3.
Don't give up on the 4D, just look at it again. And again, and again... Hold your score card further away from your eyes and use your beautiful mind. If you haven't seen the movie yet, you should.... It will change your visionary insight to things.
CC
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Well I didn't abandom it totally. There is still a 4D forum. And I agree with all you say about 4D. It is a very strong way to play. John said the same as you. Even though it is obviously a bias system, both of you are saying it works well in preshuffled cards. I'm not sure why that would be true or how either of you tested that opinion but I'll take your word for it.
My problem with it is only a small minority of members seem to want to go in that direction because of
difficulty of learning the system as demonstrated at the seminar
difficulty of keeping up at casino speed
difficulty of playing over long hours
I have to go with the majority
They want a simple way to play preshuffled cards easily and effectively from a +5 perspective.
Meanwhile, it would be great if we had someone like you to carry the 4D forum foreward.
It deserves and begs to be brought to fruition - to be finalized.
Quite the contrary, it's actually simpler than playing NOR, and casino speed is not an issue.
And "no", I am not in any position to take on the responsible leadership of the 4D thread, my life is busy enough without it.
I personally don't want the casinos to know what I am doing and once it's exposed completely of the forum, it could be game over.
I believe all the members have been overwhelmed by all the numbers they see in front of them just as I was once before, but I managed to see past all that.
Why is it more simple than NOR? .... Because... Here's a hint.... Not all columns are required to record and expose pre-shuffled card bias.
This is one reason why casino speed is not an issue. I will not lay it out for the members, but yet those who are able to figure out are the smart cookies on the forum and they will understand why it should be kept a secret. The game will change yet again if exposed.
I have a contact in Macau who has offered me $50K along with a confidentiality agreement for this knowledge and I have thought about but yet, not agreed to it as of yet. I can make far greater than that using it myself. You can never know 100% who you are dealing with thesis days! he could be working for the casino for all that anyone knows. Any fool would jump on it for $50K, but like I said... Potential "Game Over" once exposed.
My best advice for all... Just think outside of the box, and experiment. If you choose to play with the theory of your own research, you are responsible for your own profits and losses. I know that Ellis understands this more than anyone here.
CC
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-------All those times together in Biloxi,and you are just telling me now?
You had the key to the Naval Intelligence equivalent of solving the mystery of TheGoodShipLollipop, and we did not " set sail" on this one?
We could have rescued Gilligan and Company!
------- And gotten Tom Hanks back on The Mainland before it was too late?
HA! Shame on you!
This thread is all about THE PERFECT STORM, and it's a sure thing Clooney and Marky Mark a.k.a. Mark Wahlberg are gonna need some help...
Thank goodness Tom Hanks had His buddy to rely on.... W - I - L - S - O - N !!!
CC
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How good is this +5 program?
Well, lets take just BaS40 for instance:
If you play it the way I played it before Ann taught me better, the only way you could lose is if the shoe produced 8 3s before it produced a 4 or more and also before you hit +5.
The average number of 3s in 72 plays is 4.5. I have a tester of 500 complete shoes players turned in from various casinos. In that entire tester there is only one shoe with 8 3s let alone 8 before a 4 or more.
But today we wouldn't play that shoe the way I did. As soon as we see high 3s we would bet that 3s stay 3 instead of always betting that 3s will go to 4. So with all those 3s, we would KILL that shoe today. See that?
Back to preshuffled cards for a second. Recognize that 8 3s in "preshuffled" cards is extremely unlikely.
Why? Because they are trying their best to eliminate biaUses and 8 3s is an extremely strong and obvious bias that NOR would absolutely kill - the same kind of bias they are striving to eliminate.
Also recognize I'm only talking BaS40 here. We also have BaOTB4L and S40M1. Both of those LOVE 3s. So, if we had high 3s, we wouldn't be playing BaS40 in the first place. See that?
I don't just think that +5 will work better than NOR in preshuffled cards. I think the 3 +5 systems will work BETTER in preshuffled cards than they ever workrd in regular cards.
BECAUSE in preshuffled, it is the LACK of bias that helps us and that is exactly what the casinos are striving for. We have to take our NOR hats off and put our +5 hats on. We have to stay one step ahead of them all the time.
Yep, this preshuffled cards thing was a really neat casino trick - pretty darn smart. It was even a greater trick getting it legalized.
BTC is about using the casino's own antics against them. And that is exactly what we are doing. See that?
Hey Ellis, for most of what you say, I agree, as for bias on per shuffled cards, there is no bias if took at it while wearing your NOR approach hat, hands down .. Uh uh... Go to jail, do not collect $200, etc,,,etc.. But on the sane shoe using 4D, it exposes the hidden bias that you don't see with NOR. And then... You can exploit it as I do. I've seen 4D when used properly, pull even as high as +39 units!!! on pre-shuffled shoes using a 2Hi bet system, but that's not where I leave, I'm long gone before that. I most often see shoes played out with 4D 2hi bet system do between +11 to +22 but before everyone gets excited, like NOR, you won't see it in every shoe... Just most often.
I played 10 shoes yesterday with pre-shuffled cards and won all but one.... My ending score for the tough shoe was -3 units... Not too shabby +45 units for all shoes played, as result of winning +6 on 3 occasions instead of +5. And on one of the shoes, had I stayed longer... Would have produced 12 wins iar from the point that 4D tells you when to start playing. Instead, I was out in 3 hands for +5 target with 2hi bet system. THANK YOU VERY MUCH I TELL THE PITT BOSSES, I come back later the finish recording the balance of the shoe.
Now.... Having said that.... If you looked at that shoe from a NOR perspective, there is no way in hell that you would pull off 12 wins iar.. NEVER! It sad to see that you abandoned the 4D method and recognized the power it has against pre-shuffled cards.
I find it hard to believe that a man of your stature and knowledge would give up on the 4D system. It is extremely powerful.
If we are able to meet in Macau in November, and you have not figured out the 4D method yet... In effort to save time, I can punch any shoe into my excel spreadsheet and prove it works and you can compare how NOR would do .... Without table selection.
4D exposes imbalanced bias in pre-shuffled cards. And I didn't need a hi IQ to see it.
Keep up the great work Ellis.
4D lives on.
CC
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I really hate to respond, but I just can't let it go. Where does this guy get off telling other members what they have to do on this forum. I think this person needs to see that Canadian psychiatrist.
Well said Gman7, his posting was entirely inaccurate as he claims that I said; I'm the best baccarat player in the world???? I never said that.
Among other statements he claims that I am? They are totally untrue, He has no clue who I am and my intellectual level of baccarat play. Ii don't think he really takes time to clearly read the postings I made; to see the real message. I never targeted him directly in my later posting about having an axe to grind.... but yet he doesn't see that? I was actually ironing things out and restore unity between members on the forum.
Some members actually acknowledged that. But obviously he didn't.
All the claims he made against me are totally based on his own interpretation without facts, PERIOD.
We are all entitled to freedom of speech, I get that.
I'm sure there are plenty enough psychiatrists in USA.
4D lives on.
CC
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You've been a member since 2008 and you still can't make 5 units a shoe? Dude, when do you think you'll ever learn? Oh I know, you're always looking out for that next "sure thing" from Ellis that will finally make you a winner.
It's a sad fact that you aren't alone. Here's some helpful advice that you'll probably not listen too...stop trying to find that winning system that never loses and learn how to be a winner from within. Have the courage to win or lose based on your own intellect, not someone else's.
Hey, nothing against tjfiles or anyone else....
BigVic.... I couldn't have said it any better... Keep up with the great postings
4D lives on,
CC
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This is my last reply to you.after this i am just going to ignore you and not waste any more of the members time with stupidity.don't talk about my credibility,just so you know i know about your medical system.the small part of your medical system that you brushed over are the waiting times.in the usa you can get an mri in the same day and in canada it could take you up to 6 months,depending on availability.i'm not here to talk about that.please,please don't play the canadian card.you still can't come to terms with the fact that you threatened this forum with lawsuits.i wonder if the the canadian medical plan offers psychiatrists,you sure need one. You have only proved 1 thing that you are a terrible gambler,you gambled that the btc site would fall apart and you lost .with all your blah blah blah 4d nonsense,big talk,all trash,one the best bac players in the world and you can't afford 10 bucks a month.i don't want to waste anymore on you.please don't respond,unless you are willing to apologize to this membership,that's non negotiable..
Give It up will ya? Whatever......
I'm a professional 4D BAC player and you want keep rambling on, I thought I put this to rest on my last posting but no, looks like you still have an axe to grind. My last post was not targeted at you on a negative way. Just facts, and if you are in able to handle them with maturity, I'm sorry, but I can't help you and no one on the forum will either.
Like Sgt. Hulka said in the movie "Stripes"....
"Lighten up Francis"
CC
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nice post cc,glad to see your on the positive,that took guts
Thanks moneybac, but it still looks as tho' RUEBEL still has an axe to grind with his prejudice remarks about the Canadian members of the forum.
And... Just for the record... We Canadians "Do pay" for our medical but it is true that it is at a fractional cost of what most Americans pay. Our medical is paid via taxes and reasonable premiums paid by all. The only exception is that those who are on welfare are given a free ride. The quality of our medical is extremely good, but the downside is the wait time for certain treatments as a result of waiting lists.
I have an American friend that pays over $1000/month for his medical coverage whereas my personal medical coverage in Canada is $64/month. A far cry from what he pays. I even have extended medical that costs me approx $100/month. As our regular medical coverage does not include all medical expenses.
And RUEBEL wants to speak about credibility?, perhaps he should get his facts straight before opening his mouth with incorrect information.
FACT: the Hoover dam was completed under budget and ahead of schedule as the result of being lead by a Canadian who was paid a $300,000 bonus at the time. I would bet that most Americans don't realize how often our two nations help each other out so often.
We are great nations side by side together and I know that Americans are proud of their country and who they are, and I am too... Proud to be a Canadian and not even RUEBEL can take that away from me.
4D is only as complicated as you make it, actually it's very simple and I have plenty of time to write my card as per while in live-play.
Please people, think outside of the box and you too can find a path to beating pre-shuffled cards.
FACT: pre-shuffled cards do have a bias, the difference is that it is of a shorter duration than what you see with regular cards. For most, it looks as tho there is no bias at all, but 4D will prove that wrong because 4D exposes the bias whereas NOR won't.
I use the 4D method day-in day-out, and accumulate 5 or 6 units on a regular basis. I have also tested so many shoes from the forum that members have trouble with and 4D beats them all. aLL!
Pre-shuffled shoes are different, but are manageable and I plan to play my method on my trip to Macau in November with confidence.
4D Lives on.
CC
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Hear, hear.
Frontal is right, it's starring you all in front of your faces if you just open up your mind to the 4D.
You all have the tools and education of the 4D to enable you to pull +5 units on most every shoe you will ever play. The 4D does not require table selection and works excellent with Pre-shuffled shoes. It makes NOR a thing of the past.
In fact I played to day fora +5 target and managed to get +6 on a 2 Hi bet system in less than 40 minutes of play. My shortest time played using the 4D to get +5 is under 7 minutes flat.
I'm a hit n run player and that's the best way to play.
You all have the right tools.. NOR & 4D, they go hand in hand.
Just look at it from a different angle and you will see what I'm talking about.
I am trying to help others and perhaps I have been outspoken at time because I have the balls to do so. So what if I say a few things here or there, but it's all truthful for IMHO, i felt Keith had jumped the gun and felt that I needed to point out how some members don't see things the same way as he does.
If the answer is a fee to help offset ongoing costs, so be it, I understand the forum needs financial maintenance and perhaps if Keith and / or Ellis followed their own plan and practice what they preach, BigVic was right... Put your system where your mouth is and show us the money.
Keith and Ellis could be celebrities and have late nite infomercials just like Tom Vu with bikini clad ladies and fancy limos and sports cars too boot. Think of the revenue that can be generated? ... The casinos will be scared...
But I do realize all this could stir Ellis heart up and he really does prefer and enjoy teaching to the fullest... Glad to see that they kissed and made up. Looks like Fido still has a place to sleep at night.
Now let's just move on and point Ellis and Keith's business plan in a positive direction.
4D LIVES ON....
CC
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Why do members continue to post negativity when they already have it figured out but don't want to help others?
Hooray your system works...why not go play it and leave the forum and take all your negative trash with you so those of us who wanna learn can do so without all your propaganda bs.
If you have a beef with Ellis handle it like a man....spewing your filthy laundry is akin to 4th graders.
You don't wanna contribute fine your perogative but don't clog up forums
I'm not saying don't pm me ha so don't even ask!!!!
That line is worth 10 a month
Would you really want me to post your pm's about how badly you play and how you have asked me for help over the past few months trbfla???
Ya... I think you fall in the category of a member with more money than brains and join your friend Ruebel and gman7 now there's a real winner who doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about.
We all paid for what's inclusive to the NOR content... A lifetime membership and yet you guys just brush it off like it was nothing.
You guys are so weak. Pitiful followers who need help.
What I said was all FACTs but you can't handle the truth, that's why you are responding in such a manner as above.
BTW, thank you to all those members with their supportive comment in my pm box over the past 48 hrs. Especially about the member who purchased Twister and got burnt badly.
CC
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Not sure what anyone else's b!tch is here, but as for me it's solely the 4D Seminar I paid for that did not deliver. I agree - lesson learned - but why does it have to be at MY expense?
Ellis is 100% correct - it doesn't take a high IQ to figure out that this site needs income to maintain expenses, but it would take Kreskin to figure out whether a seminar is worth it before he bought it...
That's why I proposed a remedy that anyone who bought the 4D seminar should get a free pass to this one to make up for the loss. Simple...BTC's bad for selling something that wasn't good - let's credit the ones who bought it with this one and move on. Only fair, don't you think?
I'm also not opposed to a monthly fee of $10 or so - AS LONG AS THE CONTENT IS WORTH IT!
I know some of the other members feel that they are contributing to a discussion - not as much as Ellis, possibly - but still contributing non the less to where it's significant. Once a membership fee is introduced the assumption becomes - "teach me"....exactly like signing up for a college course - you go into it knowing nothing and expect the teacher to impart the knowledge.
If it goes into membership mode, I'd expect what I wrote in previous threads:
1. A teacher
2. A Manual
3. Plenty of example shoes
Standard for any college level course.
Hey Quiz... I agree that the attendees at the 4D seminar didn't get a fair shake as per what happened there, thank goodness I I cancelled in time as I saved myself money and grief.
As for a membership fee, I know at least 6 members who are not prepared to stay if this were to happen, one of them is a recent NOR member and there is another very smart cookie that will be missed from the forum. As for me, I found a way to beat pre -shuffled cards so it's not a biggie for me who was granted lifetime membership.... By Mr. Davis himself. But Keith has just posted his excuses about this and has told us he is "done". See his posting from yesterday addressed to Ellis.
I thought Vegas was a place for marriages to flourish, but I see a "Smith" vs. "Davis" divorce in the making.
Has Mr. Smith opened his mouth once again too soon before the brain did the thinking?
Perhaps.... But this couple needs each other. Perhaps some counselling is in order or shall we let the children (members) take sides? The members are the children of the divorcing couple and Fido too. Who gets what?
C'mon Keith.... Lighten up will ya? The kitchen might not be the best place for you as you don't seem to take the heat that well. Ellis is the master chef here along with a few ingredients thrown in by the children.
It sounds like NOR may not be on the menu much longer as like buddy holly songs won't play in American Pie, so there goes dessert as well.
It sounds as tho a minced version of NOR may be in the mix to be the next "winner winner, chicken dinner" to get +5 units. The item that is so difficult to make has vanished the menu?... "4D" with all it's 4 secret ingredients of selected herbs and spices. Yet if only the chef could serve this well... It would be worth a price greater than Steak & lobster.
As for the drinks, there is scotch for those who need and can't for get about whine that comes along with hiccups that happen along the way.
BTW.... That will be an extra charge please, along with a new monthly excise tax.
After your meal is completed, you are ready to go back to the casino.... Not to worry if you lose... BTC will be open 24/7 to serve up another special recipe to fill your appetite as long as you are a paying customer.
While there are other establishments out there that are under new management with new and different menus.
If you feel that you have not received proper service at BTC, there's always a safety net.... "ObamaCare"
Bon appetite'
CC
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The answer to all Keith's and Ellis's problems are staring them right in the face! I think the two founders of "Beat The Casino" who want to sell a product called "Million Dollar Webinar" should lead by example and individually go out, spend the next 30 days and each make 1 million dollars playing baccarat exactly the way they teach it in the webinar.
That would serve two purposes.
First: Prove beyond a doubt that what they are selling works for the baccarat game currently being dealt.
Second: NO MORE MONEY WORRIES FOR THE FORUM!
Simple really.
Excuses to follow.....
You know what BigVic? That the best thing I've seen you post all day!
I sent Keith a referral via pm perhaps that may help?
But hey, if they both proved that the million $ plan will work.... They can endorse it completely, otherwise it's just a hypothetical formula that has not been proven yet. Remember Jerry McGuire? "Show me the money!"
Honestly.... It wasn't me who peed in Keith's Corn Flakes... Heck I don't even live close to him.
CC
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I'm glad to hear you're having more success with your new method and understand if you don't want to share.
However, could you kindly share how much higher your shoe win rate is as well as your PA? Has it gone up?
Thanks
Sure.... My win rate on back testing of shoes is 94% and my current live play win rate is 100%
Sorry, I have not bothered to calculate a PA%, I did not considerate it due to high success rate of shoes tested and played live.
That beats the heck out of 82%.... What would you do?
4D lives on... If Ellis only knew.... As for Keith... He's still working on some natural 8 & 9 theory.... Pffft!
I'm not saying I don't like Keith or anything, I'm just don't agree with what ever he blurts out of his mouth without really thinking things out well before endorsing anything. The guy should be smarter than this.
CC
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I don't want to start an argument, this is Ellis’ world, I'm just a visitor in it. I paid for NOR, I've won Baccarat playing NOR, more than enough to cover the cost. I posted about it last year. I believe in NOR.
But...my opinion, and it's just that, an opinion, is that +5 is not a new system, it is mostly just an adjustment to NOR betting, with a few tweaks about modes and betting ATR or OTR. That's it. It follows the same three systems S40, OTB4L, F(SS/S40M1) as NOR. You are just changing the betting progression and calling it BaS40, etc.... I get that you don't agree, but I'm guessing that most NOR members on here following the +5 discussion would agree with most of what I've stated.
And as far as I'm concerned, preshuffled cards are nothing that hasn't been talked about on the NOR forums by you extensively and how to play NOR against them with smaller win expectations than against regular cards.
Your statement below about NOR soon being obsolete is not very encouraging, especially since I've been a NOR member for less than a year. I really feel sorry for anyone thinking about purchasing NOR. Wouldn't that be something. Pay for what you think will be a successful approach to Baccarat and then find out its creator thinks it will be obsolete soon. Ouch! Maybe they'll get started soon enough to win their cost back like me.
None of what I said should take away from the great instruction and discussion I get in the forum currently. I think it's great.
What I've said, in this post and the last one I posted, are just my small gripes with the idea of charging current NOR members for the +5. I'm happy to pay for a webinar for additional instruction on the +5, just not happy to pay more to get access to something that I feel I've already paid for. I’ll see how things play out in the next week or so on this and then make a decision.
SAVE YOUR MONEY, YOU HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION ALREADY, WHY PAY MORE? You don't need too.
CC
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i'm just wondering what comes after the million dollar baccarat, 1 billion? Now that i'd pay to see.
dream on !
cc
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I have asked this question before and did not receive an answer.
Ellis, Keith, Steve Spataro and other instructors and top NOR players -
"What percent of hands do you actually win?"
This happens to be a very crucial piece of information, regardless,
whether one flat bets or uses a progression.
Please, do NOT keep me in the dark on this.
Thank you in advance.
Sakana
To answer your question, I have had a great deal of success with NOR yet I am no longer playing the method.
My win shoe rate when I last played NOR was 82% for a +5 unit or greater walk-away target not Ellis's claim to fame 20+ units.
NOR works very well but 4D when played my latest method is even higher. I AM NOT DISCLOSING MY LATEST METHOD SO PLEASE DONT WASTE TIME ON POSTING THE QUESTION...THANKS
CC
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Hi
No I will make a training Video afterwards, I can never get a good webinar recording.
The basic rules will be in the NOR forum as they are now, but the million dollar forum will contain the training items and tweaks we produce. It will have a subscription fee. That's the easiest way rather than convoluted topics and threads we decided to do it contrary to what we decided earlier
Nothing will be in the Million Dollar forum until after the seminars.
The forum access will not be included in the seminar price but we are thinking to generate some cash flow for Ellis for his writing we are think 10 bucks a month.
Keith
Excuuuuuuuuzzzze MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! $10/month forum fee? Gee Keith, you may want to consider shutting the forum down very very soon if you even think that this would work... GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE! This is worse than your natural 8 & 9 analysis crap recently posted.
You better be thinking twice before you decide to charge for the forum,
WHY?
1) Ellis's will run out of ideas resulting that you will lose valuable contributing members not interested to pay......
Where do think Ellis gets his ideas from? It's not all Ellis..... FACT: Ellis was holding out for our poor friend Oz back in January for the perfect 100 shoe win. FIASCO!
FACT: Ellis gets his ideas from members like myself and then markets them to collect $$$$ and takes credit as his own..... CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?
FACT: Ellis's 4D omarketing campaign and knowledge turned out to be a "FLOP". .... See attendees comments in previous postings.
HECK, I know the 4D system in far greater detail of understanding than Ellis does.... But hey, some people (members of forum) are followers and yet some are leaders or designers. I think you all know where you fit in. As for me, I'm an innovated thinker designer of systems.
FACT: Ellis and Keith's credibility was lost in the marketing of the 4D and video seminar.... Why should anyone in their right mind consider to pay forward at such recent reputation failure?......
.."............... Maybe some people have more money than brains....? If you don't know who you are..... Others will when they see your face as an attendee at the upcoming seminar video for others willing to waste money on yet another seminar video... But wait! Keith has claimed that he intends to make a "Training Video" to save face... So to speak. You are saved! Lol. My mistake!
FACT: "ALL NOR PAID MEMBERS ARE GRANTED COMPLETE ACCESS TO PRIVATE FORUM CONTENT AS PER $600 ONE TIME FEE......PERIOD".
FACT: ...... I'm sorry to have bring this up again, but hey, Keith just opened up the opportunity again....... In 2006 Ellis granted me an "Honorary Lifetime Membership to all Private content of BTC" as I was a system tester with real money on behalf of Ellis's current system development at the time...... Yet..... After 2 years, I came back to the forum and found that he had designed the NOR System... Of which I had (not knowingly at the time) "Grandfathered status" to get it for no cost, Including; "Honorary lifetime access to private forum".....
ELLIS STILL MADE ME FORK OVER $600 for NOR. In hindsight... A mistake of injustice as been made.
This not first time I have spoken openly about this... Yet Ellis has never responded to this or offered me a refund.
FACT: Ellis's so called invention of OTB4L came from me in spring 2006., yes you read that right.... "CC GAVE ELLIS THE RECOGNIZED VISUAL GRASP OF OTB4L OBSERVATION IN SPRING 2006". Ellis repeated back me over the phone... 3 X's. The words "opposite time before last" after I told him about what I saw and how I was playing to achieve an edge over the casino at Baccarat.
Did I ever get credit for that? "NO"
Did I ever receive any form of royalty for OTB4L? "NO"
DO YOU YOU EVER THINK THAT ANY OTHER MEMBER THAT ELLIS USES THEIR IDEA FOR HIM TO MAKE MONEY ON... WOULD EVER GET A PEICE OF THE PIE OF ANY REVENUE FROM THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS? "NO"
.... THIS IS WHY I HAVE RECENTLY KEPT MY CLOSEST SECRETS TO MYSELF
IF ELLIS KNEW WHAT HAVE NOW.... "He would pee his pants at a moments notice as it is the perfect ingredient for the MILLION DOLLAR PLAN +5 unit system"
I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE. MY LIPS ARE SEALED.
FACT: players and "contributing members" on this forum are considered and respected as good to great baccarat players of the world.
I didn't say all members, I said contributing, yet I as a contributing member and others feel used.
NOW.... IF THERE ARE TO BE CHANGES IN THE MANAGING OF FEES AND ACCESS OF THE FORUM.... BE WARNED, BE VERY WARNED...
LOSS OF REPUTATION, LOSS OF REVENUE FOR SYSTEMS SOLD CURRENTLY, LOSS OF MEMBERS, AND....... POTENTIAL LAWSUIT BY CURRENT MEMBERS AND OTHERS TO FOLLOW.
YOU MAY NOT BE AS SMART AS ELLIS, BUT PERHAPS YOU SHOULD HOPE FOR A NATURAL TO SHOW UP TO SAVE YOUR BACON.
DONT MAKE ANOTHER MISTAKE OF INJUSTICE.
CC
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The idea that the naturals, or other signs of "hand strength" is very significant, is valid. I actually posted about it a few weeks back.
And Katchatz1 mentioned looking at it on his Red Rock shoe.
How significant? hmm?
Its lucky that more people are coming up with this idea.
So, yes I agreed
Sorry guys I can't say that I agree, I've studied this to great extent 10 years ago.... HOGG WASH!!
But hey?, if you want to waste time on it, be my guest, I have better things to study than this.
CC
Canada Bacc w/ Vertical and Horizontal Methodology
in BeatTheCasino.com Q and A Baccarat and Blackjack
Posted
It's nice to see an interesting View on something that is .. well.. Just right in front of us yet not all players recognize this as valuable data to take advantage of.
Great Video, Thanks Keith and CanadaBacc