MVSeahog
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Posts posted by MVSeahog
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I played at the Rivers Casino in Pittsburgh - they have three mini-bac tables. Generally a good scene but the cards there actually seem a bit tougher than what I've played in Vegas for whatever reason.
Hey! That's where I play when I am forced to visit the in-laws up in Pittsburgh.
MVS
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Ellis and all,
Is there any reason the S40M3 can't be tweaked to some type of BaS40M3 method with a secondary prog within a prog?
Thoughts?
Quizzical,
Not a stupid question by any stretch of the imagination. I"ve been running with a "test" version of what you've described which amounts to BaS40M3 and it's performing nicely.
The fact that so many have "looked" at it (M3) shows that we're all basically coming up with some pretty good ideas once we run the whole idea of "+5" through our usual channels.
As Ellis pointed out, being able to handle the 1,2,3 stuff under M3 makes up about 87% of the decisions.
Thanks for bringing it up and showing me that I'm in good company with the M3 thought process.
MVS
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Right, some got the explanations right, some didn't. First I'll repost the shoe with play numbers so everyone can follow your questions:
OK, I'm also guilty of not being able to count. The play in question is actually Hand 16. Arrrrgh. I hate it when that happens.
MVS
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Chief,
Jumping in to head off a confusion crisis....
I see the play at hand 27, 43, 53 and 61 are all consistent. They go back to opposite after a red win.
The only one that doesn't is hand 7.
The second question is the play at hand 17. Is that correct?
Other than that, the shoe moved along nicely and more importantly, it actually made sense in the play!
Thanks.
MVS
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Hi,
I just can't hold this question any longer . I apologize if it is obvious and I can't see it
or if it is yet to be dealt with.
I cannot see how to deal with a sequence of
B36
or any sequence where a long(er) run follows a winning 0 bet
at the beginning of the shoe or later where there are no unresolved 0 bets.
Wendel,
It would appear that we're all all the same page and coming up with the same questions. I think this is a good thing!!
Anyway, I believe the answer to your question, and this is only because I've run into it a few times already is this:
B36 is what we're working with at the start of the shoe.
Hand 1 - NB
Hand 2 - NB
Hand 3 - a red zero and it wins meaning we will be betting the 2's do NOT go to 3.
Hand 4 - lose 1 and it ends that sequence.
Hand 5 - is the first oppostite (S40M1) wager and it also loses.
Hand 6 - bets that the two will stay a two. It loses.
Hand 7 - restarts the opposites of S40M1. It loses.
Hand 8 - Bets under the previous hand as it is NOT a "2" and we're playing S40M1, which is the normal wager.
Hand 9 - Wins as it is a regular S40M1 wager OTR.
At least that's how I understand the logic of the play.
Without a "2" in the mix, there is no "progression in a progression" wager.
If I am incorrect, I'm sure someone will come to our aid.
MVS (for some reason this method has grabbed me pretty good)
Hmm, I see Commander Ellis posted up the reply while I was making mine! Oh well, it was a good try. I missed the "3's will go to 4" thing. Arrrrgh.
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Hand 19 is back to prog 1 again but this time we bet Opposite as prog 1 is always S40 except continues from 3iars.
I hope this helps and Ellis please correct me if I am wrong.
AYS
Darn it.
I missed that note. (continues from 3iars only). Just "misplayed" 5 test shoes.
I'll redo them on the fly and see how it comes out.
MVS (all 5 did profit though)
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Hello everyone, Ellis could you check plays 43 and 53. I believe
they should be a 1 bet on Bank? I scored 12. Not complaining LOL.
Thanks ,Brian
Brian,
OK, at least we're on the same page as I was about to ask the same question.
Thanks for beating me to the punch!
MVS
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Kachatz1,Beau Rivage ( (MGM) 2-4 tables, lots of restaurants, and better coffee than StarBIP Casino ( Boyd Gaming) 2-3 tables, do check out the pool and 32 restaurant
Hard Rock ( Franchise name only) 1 table, + pretty impressive muzak. Ruth Chris , plus Starbucks and Ben and Jerry's ... Nice pool
Party weekends
Golden Nugget ( not the same as Vegas) usually 1 table, Morton's steakhouse well worth a visit
The Grand ( Total Rewards) 1-2 tables, but a dive
Margharitaville, Jimmy Buffett likely in court trying to get his money back... Closed their Bac table less than one month after opening... Keep promising to reopen
Have fun!
Thanks. My wife keeps nagging me to make a run over to Biloxi "one of these days" and at least now I'll have some idea of where to go!!
MVS
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Now with everything else we talk about disparity, if we track the last 5 hands and Banker won 3 of them with a 7, 8 and 5 against a Players 6, 2 and 3, the mean average of Banker is 6.7 and Players is 3.7 of the hands won. The difference of the mean average is 3.0 (perhaps 1 is not the best incremental base either I don’t know). Would it follow to say that we have a Banker strong side game and also that we may find evidence in the numbers to say it is not only strong Banker, but strong repeats or OTB4L.
Keith,
An interestng observation. I can see taking some time to review a group of shoes in my "downtime" to see if anything "stands out", so to speak.
MVS
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Question for members and non-members.
I played a partial shoe the other night, and when I walked up to the table, this is what the tote board showed:
P412213271223111
Tell me how you would play this shoe
Why?
and I will post the remainder of the shoe and how I played it.Why?
Then we can compare results...Why?
Anyway, because I didn't play today, I glanced at your tote board and came away with
+13 based on where you said you started and with the rest of the shoe as posted.
Please post up the shoes correctly.
I did not use NOR based on what you posted with this message.
Is this a test or are you still on your single handed conquest of NOR the hard way?
MVS
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Hello to all fellow Baccarat Lovers! Can anyone direct me to a website where I can down load and print off some baccarat practice shoes. I would prefer if the shoes had not yet been played. I want to play a bunch of them to master my NOR skill set. I do not want to practice with a live dealer on the internet because it is too slow for multiple practice shoes. Any suggestions?? Thank you.
G,
Head on down to the local store and purchase eight decks of cards.
Shuffle them and play your own game, one hand at a time at home.
Do not cheat, do not make fake wagers. Practice it FOR REAL. Write down every hand as you play it. If you don't understand WHY you're making a particular wager, write the question down and stop playing until you get an answer.
You will be amazed at how well you can learn the rules of the game and play at speed while marking and making notes after awhile.
Anyway, it beats sitting there staring at a computer screen while the fuzzy live video ambles along.
And in my case, shuffling the cards is pretty much my exercise for the evening.
MVS
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Actually you were playing S40 M2 which is exactly what you SHOULD have been playing given all the 2s. You can't play S40M1 in a shoe high in 2s. EVER!
Note that ALL of your OTR bets were winning. After the first OTR bet at play 6, which should have been a 1 bet on B, confirming M2, your OTR bets should have been 3s. The question was what to do after the OTR bet wins??? It wins at play 7 so you make a second OTR bet until you hit the first 4iar. Then you stay OTR for only the 1 bet until the first 5iar. Then you stay OTR for 2 bets until the 4iar (play 49). But note that EVERY first OTR bet won because there were NO 3s.
Why don't you give this shoe another shot S40M2. It's a very easy +10 or more played precisely to your manual. If you can't get it on the 2nd try I'll play it for you. Yes, you could play it 2Hi like you did - but not when EVERY first OTR bet is winning. There are times when 2Hi just doesn't cut it when you are winning ALL of your initial OTR bets.
Chief,
The object of this play is not to try to win the shoe. The object here is to try to post up a shoe (The Sugar House shoe) and play it completely through using the appropriate rules of the play. S40M1, BaS40, S40M2, BaOTB4L.
Right now we've got everybody playing four plays six different ways and I was hoping to get everybody on the same page so we can all move forward IN SYNC!!
There was no attempt to change system plays in either shoe demonstration. It was strictly an exercise in playing one method all the way through the shoe to show the various combinations that come up. If we can nail down all three (or four) primary plays, this will really help out a lot of people, including me!
As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, once we do have them "nailed down" we can make a new thread with only the sample play in it so it can be referrenced by everyone as needed. Does that sound like a good plan?
MVS
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Couple of questions please.
At hand 6 you bet player, shouldn't this have been under banker (betting the 3iar goes to 4)?
Steve,
Thanks for asking up. Here goes my best "explanation" of the play.
At hand 6 I had no data on 3's or 4's so just assumed it would stop at 3 THE FIRST TIME. Notice at hand 22 we did make the change to follow the "3" because it had already happened previously.
At hand 43 you bet banker for the 3iar to go 4 and lost but then you immediately started betting S40 at hand 44. I think this was because the run ended and you went right back to S40 as explained above?
Yes, the previous runs had all gone 3+ so the call was to continue with that. When it lost, you go right back into the Opposites play starting at 1 unit.
Also notice that at hand 49 the wager was for the "3" to go to "4" because of the number of times it already did that. Notice the only "3" streak in that shoe was at hands 40-42.
If everyone reading this thread who may be involved agrees, we can move on to the BaOTB4L play and get that one mapped out.
Once again, if anyone tracked down and copied the play, post it up here or PM me and I'll run it on this same shoe so we can all see how to play it correctly.
We've nailed down two of them, let's get the third one down!
MVS
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All,
OK, here's the promised "updated" Sugar House shoe done in BaS40 as corrected by "several" people to me.
Once again, if we need to change this, let me know and I'll get it done. We have to nail down these three plays if we're going to make any progress. Once they are finalized, I'll post all three plays (S40M1, BaS40 and BaOTB4L) in one clean thread for reference.
I'll make my feeble attempt at BaOTB4L tomorrow, I hope. If anyone else would like to post up what they believe is the correct play for BaOTB4L, be my guest and we'll all correct or OK it so we can move on.
Once again, any questions or corrections on this particular shoe, please speak up.
MVS (Always ready to learn)
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BaS40 (high 1's on the tote board or high 1's and 2s) (Same as S40 except for your secondary prog.)
Objective: +5 units
Best to wait for a 2iar to start and about ten plays
1.) Bet a 1,2 up as you lose primary prog on opposites. (You can only lose your primary prog to a 3iar or a 4iar when starting after a 2iar.)
2a) If most of the 3s have gone to 4 start your secondary prog 12358 directly under the 3iar If that 1 bet wins, wait for the run to end and start over.
2b) If it loses start over but after the next 3 your secondary prog is up to a 2 bet. (12358) up as you lose after 3iars.
3.) If most of the 3s so far stayed 3, start your primary prog opposite the 3iar (if that 1 bet wins, start over at 1)
3b) Same as 2b.
Notes:
In extreme chop full of ZZs you may decide not to wait for a 2iar to start since you could miss aZZ run.
Starting mid shoe you have history to tell you which way to go with your secondary prog - on or against 3s.
You can stay on runs once on them but remember, you are only trying to get to 5.
Thats about all there is to BaS40.
so this shoe all 3s have gone to 4s+, your secondary prog should go OTR after 3iars not ATR after 3iars.
Jerryczy,
Thanks. I knew there was something I was missing on that and you described it.
I'll redo the shoe and repost on Wednesday.
Thanks.
MVS
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Note to any latecomers to the thread. This shoe is NOT played correctly but it is left here for thread integrity. Continue to read and you'll come to the correct version.
MVS
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All,
OK, here goes my best attempt at this. It will be on the same Sugar House shoe posted earlier.
One caveat with this. Try as I might, I can NOT find the thread or message with the original explanation of BaS40. I know I've seen it somewhere as I wrote down the play so I could keep it separate from other plays in the "+5 Million Dollar" challenge.
If anyone has the actual rules and finds that this play is incorrect, PLEASE let us all know and I'll get it corrected and reuploaded.
With that said, here's what I believe to be BaS40. Now all we need is BaOTB4L explained and we'll be off to the races.
We'll get these three plays under control if it's the last thing we do!!
MVS (relearning right along with everybody else)
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MVS it was played incorrect it was my 1st attempt at s40m1 i get it now ty for your interpretation man i made ALOT OF MISTAKES IN THAT SHOE!!!
BaccDJ126,
Not a problem. That's why we post things up. To make sure we're all doing this correctly.
I had help with S40M1 as I didn't "get it" at the start but another member clued me in as I was still working on S40 and it wasn't the same.
Everybody wins when we learn something. I know I did.
MVS
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MVS (are you Adulay?) This looks like the way I played it so I think you're correct. Now the catch...
Could you replay this with BaS40 and post it?
Steve,
Yes, I am.
Yes, I'll post up the same shoe under BaS40 after lunch.
Right now my brain is so fried I couldn't even play the morning shoe in the "Million Dollar Quest".
Actually, I've already got it (BaS40) played out but just haven't scanned it for posting yet. I'll get it this afternoon.
I'm thinking if we can get a good shoe example for each wagering play, it can be put in its own "picture" thread for future reference with no questions on the play, just the graphics. Questions can be asked separately by pointing to the appropriate picture until we get them all done right, for once and for all!!
MVS
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Gentlemen,
I believe that shoe just played was incorrect in the use of S40M1.
I have taken the liberty of transcribing it to another sheet and playing it using S40M1 as I understand the rules AND from looking at the sample that Ellis posted up awhile back.
I "flat bet" it as the original poster did.
If this interpretation is NOT correct, please let me know and we'll get a correct posting up in an area where we can collect all of the major plays in one thread. As I'm currently only "up to speed" with S40M1 and BaS40, those are the only two I have hard copies of for now.
I believe I can explain pretty much any hand in this shoe if you need to ask a question about it.
Once again, if this is NOT correct, please let me know and we'll all get back on the same sheet of paper for moving forward.
S40M1 NEEDS long streaks and lots of ones!
MVS (still testing graphics sizes for posting)
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So these guys in the private forum who say that they have a holy grail based on the 4D stuff are putting you guys on.
Blake,
And welcome to the forum to you, too! Nice introduction to the group. (where's my sarcasm font?)
I don't believe you'll find anyone in the "private" forum saying they have the Holy Grail. You're the one who is jumping in with both feet here.
Anyway, welcome aboard and here's hoping you can add the to collective knowledge of the players here.
MVS
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This is actual playing and shoe info from Edgewater Casino in Vancouver:
TBTBBBBTBBBPPBBTPBBBTTBPTTBBPBBBB (STARTED HERE...
BPTTBPBPBPBPPPPPPBBBPBBPPPPBYPPBTPBTBBPBTBBP (down 3 units)
Next shoe
BPBP(started here with system 40 since O/R count already +3)
PBPPBBBPPBBPBPB (stopped playing here)
next hands were BPT...then I left. Ended up 7 units and left. Didn't want to give it back and was ready to leave.
Hammie,
Once you figure out everything there is to know about NOR and all that, go back and read a few more sections and "learn" how to post up a transcribed shoe here.
It will help in the long run.
MVS
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I believe it's 1-2-X.....so you're betting 2 hi for the std prog then if you lose twice you start at 1 unit betting opposite again. If it wins you resume std play, if it loses increase your 3rd bet to 2 the next time 2 losses in a row occur - you're betting that 3's remain 3. That prog is 1-2-3-5-8.
As for OTR if the 3rd bet loses I think you have two options:
1. Flat bet the run until a loss.
2. Wait out the run and resume on the 1st opposite.
Anyone?
Quizzical,
That's the way I see it also. At least that's the way I'm interpreting what I've read so far.
MVS
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Here is the way I practiced and became familiar with everything , I ran shoes and make sure you got the O/R count , then practice enough shoes just running OTB4L win or lose , you just want get use to seeing what it looks like on different shoes , then run about 25 to 50 shoes playing s40M1 , same goes with OTB4L-M2 AND OTB4L M3
.........THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS ONCE YOU RUN ENOUGH PRACTICE SHOES EVERYTHING WILL START TO BECOME CLEAR . and READ YOUR MANUAL OVER AND OVER AGAIN . WHEN YOU PRACTICE YOU WILL BE SURPRISED HOW THINGS BECOME MUCH CLEARER.
Very true. Running sheets on a "new" system play will allow you to see how it flows with your game AND you'll have the mechanics of it down pat in no time, but it does require the time to practice with it, and not just 25 minutes or so. Plan on a few long evenings just putting in the time.
MVS
How much do people actually earn
in BeatTheCasino.com Q and A Baccarat and Blackjack
Posted
Greektitan,
Well, first off, how long have you been playing whatever method you've been playing?
We'll see if anyone wishes to post up their "numbers" for the year, but I doubt you'll see many people jumping in on a thread like this.
Not everyone wishes to have it known that they are in substantial profits or losses.
Many of us WILL post up nice wins, a good streak and all of that.
Specifically asking "How much are you making" is not really a good question.
In my case, it's a hobby. I do play mostly online and making the "+5" goal is very attainable in each session but I play a very conservative game, which does limit my real upside. Others are much more aggressive than I am for sure. Lots of those "little" +5 wins add up at the end of the month in the spreadsheet.
Keeping accurate records of your play is important as is review of pretty much every shoe played to see where things came into focus or where things went awry, which is where the time spent on practice really comes in.
So, have you worn out your first set of cards yet in practice?
MVS