bac-cracker
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Posts posted by bac-cracker
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Ok, so lets say I am in otbm3 as that is what we normally start out at... the first progression we lose so we change to m2 and that loses. Now we just lost both progressions... this doesn't mean its a bad shoe, but should we get out? our next mode would be m2 and keep m2 unless it is going m3 a lot.
As far as starting out m3 and it worked the first time, then the 2nd time, it would have won m2, i am assuming we suppose to switch to the last one, and then if we were at m2 and it went m3, then we stick to m3 for otb?
also another question, i seem to like s40 now as m3 is killer, but when in m2, it starts off at m3 and i lose a lot of bets that way too, so i guess it goes both ways... pretty hard when it gets to this point... it 3 banks or 4 banks back to 4 or 3 to 5 etc... so mode changes keep happening and lose a lot of 3 bets... what to do or its just bad shoe and i got to implant that in my head?
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what happens when you win your 1 bet and then lose the 2nd bet progression...
do you go to a 3 bet.
also has this been working well on most of the shoes as you have to win a lot of your 2 bets or at least the 3 bet.
The Mandatory 2 bet only comes into play when your betting sequence begins with a 1 bet and has returned to a 1 bet.If you lose your 1 bet...you make your 2 bet as normal
If you win your 1 bet...you also follow with a 2 bet...In good shoes this can increase your winnings substantially
Oz
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Lets say you are betting U1D2 at 234, does this still apply or you just start at 2 and if you lose you keep going up 23456 etc then win your 7, you go down to 5 bet.
Now if you had a mandatory and lose what happens. Lets say you win your first bet of 2, then you up to 3 and lose that, do you bet 4 on your next bet or do you restart at 2?
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I had a question on mode bets.
Lets say you lose a mode bet by switching in a progression. Do you increase your bet on the next hand or do you start all over.
Example for s40m2
P141
So here are my plays at play 2 with 234 betting.
2 B +2 Win
3 P -2 Lose
4 P -3 Lose
5 B +4 Win OTR
6 B -2 Lose 2nd OTR
Okay, now is my next bet going back to s40 a 3 for my bet?
As for a P34, how does the betting go on this? Lets say its 123 we are using, you lose every bet, anyway to minimize the damage if this happens or does it not happen that often?
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I had a question on mode bets.
Lets say you lose a mode bet by switching in a progression. Do you increase your bet on the next hand or do you start all over.
Example for s40m2
P141
So here are my plays at play 2 with 234 betting.
2 B +2 Win
3 P -2 Lose
4 P -3 Lose
5 B +4 Win OTR
6 B -2 Lose 2nd OTR
Okay, now is my next bet going back to s40 a 3 for my bet?
As for a P34, how does the betting go on this? Lets say its 123 we are using, you lose every bet, anyway to minimize the damage if this happens or does it not happen that often?
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P174413
B136212212
B21121
Here is what I would like to know.
1. I know that it would be best to play this in F, but I want to learn the modes in s40m2 at the beginning of the shoe and other parts. If I do it incorrectly, I can lose a lot of bets after the one I hit on the 3 bet for long runs.
2. Also for otb the mode changes and i could lose a lot of bets.
3. For F this would be killer, but for modes it changes and if your on the wrong side, it can be a disaster.
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P174413
B136212212
B21121
Here is what I would like to know.
1. I know that it would be best to play this in F, but I want to learn the modes in s40m2 at the beginning of the shoe and other parts. If I do it incorrectly, I can lose a lot of bets after the one I hit on the 3 bet for long runs.
2. Also for otb the mode changes and i could lose a lot of bets.
3. For F this would be killer, but for modes it changes and if your on the wrong side, it can be a disaster.
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I am a little confused to what you did here.
Are your numbers correct based on the shoe as I wasn't able to follow it correctly.
By the way when you are in s40m2, is m2 what you normally start with, if so, don't you go OTR twice.
Since we went OTR twice on hand 19 and missed, do you go OTR 1 time next time.
For the next run of 6 I didn't understand what you did at all. Can you go play by play on hand 21-34
Thanks
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What is wrong with new cards that are preshuffled.
I have noticed at a casino that they are preshuffled and then the dealers split the card and shuffle once and stack them.
Sometimes the same table is choppy 75% of the shoes in the same day 3:1.
On another day it would be 1/2 or even reversed 25% choppy and 75% streaky.
It's the same table so how would you know how the table is. Is it that day or in general?
Also, why do you think that a table would do the same thing over and over again with preshuffled cards. It would be random especially when they shuffle and we cut, can you please explain that?
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Ok, if you go with 345 and you are going u1d1m2, how would this work
lets say you win 3 and go to 4 and that loses, do you go to 5?
what happens when you lose the 5? do you go 5 again.
and lets say you lose 3x, 5 5 5, do you bet 5, 5, 5 to recover or do you go 5, 4, 3.
Thanks
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Lol. Semantics!!!
I was playing off as a no bet. Was wondering why you didn't bet it like the rest of the times since it always won except for one.
Hence when I asked why you bet a 2bet without bettin the one (off). Haha
Yes we are on the same page now.
Thanks for being patient
Kilieu, I think you are a smart guy. The whole prpblem here was merely semantics, just as it so often is with newer members. Whatever you do, Don't get distressed over this. It happens all the time. We are all used to it. -
Ellis,
I am sure I am making it harder than it is by asking all these questions. I got all the bets the same as you. But here was what I was asking.
I would want to have bet 38 (ON) instead of off like you did and it would also be B1. Yes OTR 2 bet would be P1 and lost every single bet, thats why I would be B1 on this like you also did on play 17, 24, 33. Therefore I was just wondering why all of a sudden it went off (not placing a wager right?)
I also had a question on play 11, is that considered your 2nd bet, (not counting otr 1 or 2 as first bet if it lost)
Thanks again
Play 37 you are in Mode 2 because M2 has won its 3rd bet most of the time. You therefore win your 3 bet at play 37. Now the question is do you stay OTB for one more bet according to M2? The answer is NO because a second OTR bet would have lost every time thus far. See that?We lose our normal 1 bet at play 38 and we are betting up 1 on a loss so our bet is 2 at play 39 regardless where we bet it.
You seem to be trying to make this more difficult than it is.
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I was playing this as an F shoe F2, not in OTB which you already did. I just want to learn how to deal with these spots.
So starting in F2, play 10 I bet 3rd bet.
Then, is 11 the 4th bet or would I still make this the ONE bet. Reason I ask because on 12 I bet P2, which would make my F3 work on 3rd bet P.
However after that, the next is a F3 worked at 16, and then the F3 fails at 24, then the rest goes back to F2.
A lot of switches that I would try to avoid had it happened and I was in that mode. I didn't do OTB because I saw the chart you played and it loss so I would have played F because of the SS at the beginning
Right, so why did you play M2 at play 10??? -
Hi,
The reason I would bet 38 ON is that every 3rd bet that won has went back to opposites. So every play except for 1. Plays: 8, 17, 33 Only play 27 didn't and we had to go to 4 bet
But I guess if it were a safe bet and we didn't know, then we can leave it off.
The other question I had was since your 38 bet was off and you didn't lose physical money, did you need to progress up to 2nd bet since there was never a real first bet for 39?
Right, you just answered your own question. One 0N bet only won or would have won in every occassion thus far so that is what we do at play 37 and 38. At play 38 our 1 unit off bet lost for the first time and we are betting up 1 on a loss, down 2 on a win so our bet is 2. The question is where to place our 2 bet? I'm saying since we got ON and then back OFF the run the earliest possible, the run is still as young as is possible so the prudent bet is back ON the run. Then ON OFF ON OFF UNTIL we either lose an ON or win an OFF bet - the only two possibilities. Then it is back to normal S40.No, why would you make a second ON bet when that bet lost every time thus far in this shoe??? You are trying to do what THIS shoe is telling you to do, not ANY shoe.
Right, we are betting up 1 when you lose.
Correct, which demonstrates that playing this way, you beat every run no matter the length so runs are nothing to fear.
The only thing S40M2 U1D2 can lose to is a 3 followed by a 4, because your losing 3 puts you in Mode 3 which loses to a 4.
The normal odds of that are once every 4 shoes BUT, you are only playing S40 in choppy shoes which reduces the odds of a 3,4 considerably but that is what stop losses are for.
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Well the first 2 times we needed 3 bet, F3 worked out. Then the next F3 failed. So going by Ellis comments to me. Start with F2 and also use the mode that occurs the most. This would be mode 3 still.
I still have questions on what I asked before and now have others.
8 p1
9 p2
10 b3
11 p4 or p1
12 p2 - now is this part of a 2nd bet that is lost, so go 3rd bet... or is it different since you have a otr lost, then switch back to SS, is that a bet of its own or a first bet?
Or would you be able to show how you did it to hand 40?
Just taking a quick look at it, I had F2 pegged after the P3 start.Wound up +22 at the bottom of that page using U1D2M1. High bet was 4, once.
Easy to do (for me) on a $10 table. Not quite so easy on a black table!
MVS
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I woulda played this as F. I would have lost a lot of bets on the 3rd bet and at hand 24, it gets tough.
Lets say I didn't switch, how would you play that, you would just take all the losses in f3
24 p1
25 p2
26 p3
27 b1
28 p2
29 p3
What do you do for hand 30... .this is a tough shoe.
This was my only game in the $100 Midi Bac deal your own pit. The 1's are $100. The 1.5s are $150 and the 2s are $200. This shoe just wouldn't settle down to one system and I was always playing the wrong system except at the start. I decided to get out with a small win. I went back to the $25 tables because they were more consistent. I just couldn't get comfortable at this table. -
Ok, I got the above, but didn't get an answer to this below.
As for 38, why would you make this OFF if all the other times we were in M2 and went OTR 1 bet then went back to s40 hitting every single one.
So for me, 38 would be B1 (ON) with a loss. Then 39 would be P2, or would you do P1?
As for what you did, you had b1 OFF, then you increased to a 2 bet without making a 1 bet. So you would still increase to 2 and not make it p1 bet?
Can you do a 9iar instead of the 6 in the shoe? When I did it, in Off, i would lose all the B1, then I would win all the P2 bets except for the last.
Thanks
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Woops, I looked at it again, I did F2 during that decade.
So I get that part now, so when you lose the first OTR bet on s40, you go right back to s40.
33. We are still m2 since it had more events ok.
38 is still off to me and the rest in my last post
Actually these may need corrections too.26 B3
27 P1
28 B1 – There wasn’t a need for a 4 bet ever, might of skipped something
29 P1
As for 38, why would you make this OFF if all the other times we were in M2 and went OTR 1 bet then went back to s40 hitting every single one.
So for me, 38 would be B1 (ON) with a loss
As for what you did, you had b1 off, then you increased to a 2 bet. So you would still increase to 2 and not make it p1 bet?
Can you do a 9iar instead of the 6 in the shoe? When I did it, in Off, i would lose all the B1, then I would win all the P2 bets except for the last.
Thanks
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Actually these may need corrections too.
26 B3
27 P1
28 B1 – There wasn’t a need for a 4 bet ever, might of skipped something
29 P1
As for 38, why would you make this OFF if all the other times we were in M2 and went OTR 1 bet then went back to s40 hitting every single one.
So for me, 38 would be B1 (ON) with a loss
As for what you did, you had b1 off, then you increased to a 2 bet. So you would still increase to 2 and not make it p1 bet?
Can you do a 9iar instead of the 6 in the shoe? When I did it, in Off, i would lose all the B1, then I would win all the P2 bets except for the last.
Thanks
22 P1
23 P2
25 B1
25 P1
26 P2
27 P2
28 B4 You are up +6 so you can afford the 4 bet within your -8 stop loss
29 P2 (U1D2)
30 B1
31 P1
32 P2
33 B3 (still M2)
34 P1
35 B1
36 B2
37 P3 (ON)
38 B1 (OFF)
39 P2 (On)
40 B1 (Off wins so tou are back to betting Opposites)
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Wow, thanks, I was still a noob and only doing OTB as it was stuck in my head being the first I learned. Anyhow, I did this over again and got the +19, THANKS!!! However i have these questions.
Since on play 9, I go OTR for 2nd bet and miss -1, then I go opposite, do I increase and bet -2? And since this missed, do I do a 3rd bet rule and go OTR on B? (I didn't and just did opp) It gets a little confusing because lets say it was later in the shoe and my 9th bet was opp. And I hit. Now, my 10th is an opposite and a 1 bet, then the 11th, I bet 2 and hit. So no one even thinks if this would have been a 3 bet in the above situation.
With U1D2, do we go all the way up to 5 or 6, and what happens once we hit the max, betting 123456.
Ok, I just read this before I had a question. Typically in M3 OTB, you change modes on whatever is last or do you go by what MOST happens too. For example on 27, m2 hit twice and m3 once, so stick with m2 on S40. And OTB same?
I didn’t get the On Off for the long run. I did OTR 2nd bet for play 39, then 40 was I suppose to bet opp again or did you mean off by not playing, what would happen if it was 9?
What is ATR?
Again, your awesome, I hope I can do this well in all shoes.
Example: Play 8 your M2 OTR 3 bet hits, confirming M2 but your follow up OTR 1 bet misses so you don't make that 2nd OTR bet next time. See that?
Tip: OK your 2nd OTR 1 bet attempt missed. DON'T go to 2. Don't punish yourself for attempting a 2nd OTR bet. Restart your prog at 1. Right, it usually makes no difference to your score BUT it helps your PA and anything that helps your PA helps YOU. BUT IF it turns out you would have won the 2 then THAT is what you do next time. See that? Again you are letting the shoe tell you what to do. The shoe usually knows this stuff better than we do.
Example: At play 17 your M2 3 bet hits again. So this time you only stay OTR one bet because that is what would have worked last time. You are letting the shoe tell you what to do.
And that all works perfectly right up until you lose your first 3 at play 27. The accursed 3iar! Big whip! You are betting U1D2 and yor 4 wins and so does your 2 - end of problem.
But now your 3 has won TWICE and only lost ONCE so you now go with what happened MOST of the time and stick with M2.
This pays off at play 33. And the single OTR pays off at play 34.
But now comes the dreaded 6iar.
OK your 3 bet hits but this time the run continues so your 1 bet misses for the first time. What to do?
go back OTR for your 2 bet and bet on, off, on, off the run until you either lose an OTR bet or win an ATR bet.
WHY? Because in this case you are entrapped into making only single OTR bets in M2. This is dangerous if a long run occurs. On, off, on, off is the safest way to play it and half the time you end up winning 2 bets in a row as you do at plays 39 and 40. I like that better than staying OTR which always forces a lost bet.
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Hi Ellis,
Here is another shoe I played live before. I got some questions on modes.
B112421114111
B213111461
B11122
On play 14, I would be on m3 and won 4th bet. After that, I was wondering if I could have a M2-1 which means go mode 2, but only go OTR for 1 bet for zz. Maybe just keep a note of it?
Play 21 this happens exactly, and then on hand 31 I use it again, but then I would lose it on hand 45.
Also when was a good jumping in point here. I will not jump in at 2 like you do unless I am using Nor+ and u1d1-2, I think thats why you can do that right?
Please let me know your thoughts as I would like to be more consistent and not trying to hit everything.
Much appreciated.
Thanks
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Ellis,
I need help with this shoe I played live. I don't quite understand how to use the F on this and when to change modes. Also I remember parts of the forum that say you may switch modes for each sides so that was another possibility. I guess again, that it all depends on the shoe.
Anyhow, It gets tricky around 22 when I don't know to be in f2 or f3. So 22-30 it gets tricky, other than that, I did f2 all the way after and it was fine.
B1414334
B122111232113
B443131211
B111122
Thanks
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I have a few questions after charting this out and printing.
I understand 3-4 you bet OTB.
But then
5. B1 won
6. B2 - why is this is a 2 bet
7. B3 - why is this a 3 bet... and I don't understand your explanation.
So here you might say why go F3 when you already have a 4 and no 2's?
Because I'm going by SS. I'm seeing 4 Ps and no Bs.
(at this point you do see 2Bs so was I missing something here)
8. B4 - why is this a 4 bet
Also on here it seems like you switched to F2 for both sides. Should we do this or should we keep a separate mode for player and banker?
When did you switch to F and why not try 7. as OTB still?
8
Hi Ellis,I guess you thought it was obvious, but why did you start all bets with Banks, when I would figure you would start out with PP, then lose 3 bets and go on the Bank run on the 8iar? Please clarify anyone?
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Hi Ellis,
I guess you thought it was obvious, but why did you start all bets with Banks, when I would figure you would start out with PP, then lose 3 bets and go on the Bank run on the 8iar? Please clarify anyone?
OK, the shoe again was:P48212111
B1112144114
P3412311111
Recognize that I can only assume what part of the shoe is missing so I'm assuming the front part is missing and I'm also assuming the missing part is also directing us where to start. That is the problem of taking the shoe out of casino context. But this only effects where I start. So I arbitrarily started at play 3 with:
3) 1 on B - Obvious
4) 1 B - Obvious
5) 1B - Obvious
6) 2B - Obvious
7) 3B So here you might say why go F3 when you already have a 4 and no 2's?
Because I'm going by SS. I'm seeing 4 Ps and no Bs.
8) B4 - Normal F3 bet and I can afford to make it.
9) B2 - Normal U1D2 bet
10) B1 Normal F bet
11) B1 Obvious
12) B1 Obvious
13) B1 Obvious
14) B2 Obvious
15) B3 - I ignored the 3rd bet rule and went with SS because I'm looking at 8 Bs.
16) B1 - Obvious
17) B2 - Obvious
18) B3 - No SS so 3rd bet rule - my 3 won at play 15.
19) B1 - Obvious
20) B2 - Obvious
Recognize that after play 15 I'm no longer seeing a Strong Side so I'm going with the 3rd bet rule at this point.
21) B1 Obvious
22) B1 Obvious
23) B2 Obvious
24) B1 Obvious
25) B2 Obvious
26) B3 3rd bet rule
27) B1 Obvious
28) B2 Obvious
29) B3 Obvious OK, my 3rd bet lost so I change to F2 right at this point for the next run
30) P4 normal F3 bet
31) P2 Normal U1D2 bet
32) P3 Now I switch sides per F2
33) B4 Confirming F2
34) B2 Normal U1D2 bet
35) B1 Obvious
36) B2 Obvious
37) B1 Obvious
38) B2 Obvious But now I change sides because I'm in F2
39) P3 Normal F2
40) P1 Obvious My score is +9 and I'm cruising along in F2
41) P1
42) P1
43) P1
44) P1
45) P2 switch sides now per F2
46) B3
47) B1
OK the rest of the shoe stays F2 and I switch back to P at play 63 and stay there
I score +16 which is right on target for only 3 cols.
I might point out that while this looked like an SS shoe starting out, it quicky went to side to side where the 3rd bet rule rules.
Also, SS shoes generally score higher than side to side because in SS shoes you are generally changing sides less and you tend to catch more runs at their beginning rather than in the middle of them.
Let me also point out that if you try to play OTB4L in this shoe you hit your stop loss already at play 9 at -5 with a 4 bet due. No, you don't change your 4 bet to a 1. You quit at -5. And if you stay in, you'll keep hitting your stop loss.
HOW DO YOU KNOW not to attempt OTB4L?
OTB4L hates 4s and runs following runs. This shoe starts out with 4,8 but you already lost back at 4,5.
How often do shoes start with a 4 ? 1 in 16.
How often do shoes start with a 4,5? 1 in 512
baccarat roadmap
in BeatTheCasino.com Q and A Baccarat and Blackjack
Posted
does anyone know where i can get a software that lets us choose plays so it shows us the tote board and all the roadmaps etc.
it helps to see the shoe live while looking working on the NOR... just to see why i played the way i did, or remembering the shoe, etc.