gman72
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Posts posted by gman72
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At play 8, I played opposite (p1)
At play 15, I played opposite (p1) I can't think of the rational for playing bank here
At play 16 I played under the 2 iar (b0) The previous secondary prog ended at play 14.
at play 20, I played p1 to follow the 0 at 16.
at play 22 I played B2
at play 24 I played P3
at play 26 I played B0
actually we are closer than I thought.
I like your version better, but I think mine was correct.
It's the decision after play 7 that I'm talking about.
In this instance you bet play 8 as opposite (p1), which is going back to the primary progression after the ATR win at play 7.
I bet OTR at play 8 (b1) after the ATR win at play 7, since the last run from the 0 bet went to a 4iar. That was my thinking.
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I think if you lose the OTR bet , just go back to playing opposite the winning side, which would put you under the bet you just lost.
If you win , you should be sitting on a 4 iar. decide if you want to continue betting OTR , or if you want to leave the run after 4 iar
and play opposite. If the last previous run was 5 or more , you would probably stay OTR for a bet or 2 . If 4 or less play opposite.
Check Ellis's most recent posts in the S40 m2 thread.
The specifics may be a little different for M2 , but the length of runs should apply as per Ellis's recent posts on the topic
or your preferences. If you win OTR in M2 , I think you are sitting on a 5iar.
At one point , I think Ellis was using a minimum length of 4. so if your o bet won you would
bet once more otr regardless of whether there was a previous 4 or more. I think that still applies.
That all sounds correct to me as well, but its the ATR bet and subsequent bet whether that ATR bet won or lost which is the issue, not the OTR wins or losses. I can see that if the ATR bet loses and you want to bet back OTR up to the length of the last run you could do that. Its when the ATR bet wins, what do you do, just restart the primary progression betting opposite or continue betting now on the same side as the winning ATR bet, which I guess is basically betting a run opposite the last run.
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I believe I used the 0 bet correctly in the posted shoe, it's just what to do after a winning secondary progression bet that was ATR (based on the outcome of the prior 0 bet). If it loses do you go back OTR on the other side or if it wins do you stay OTR on that side?
When the shoe is choppy with very few if any 4+iars it makes the decisions a little more difficult in my opinion, but I'm sure I'm just not getting it yet.
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Hello to all fellow Baccarat Lovers! Can anyone direct me to a website where I can down load and print off some baccarat practice shoes. I would prefer if the shoes had not yet been played. I want to play a bunch of them to master my NOR skill set. I do not want to practice with a live dealer on the internet because it is too slow for multiple practice shoes. Any suggestions?? Thank you.
http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7429&highlight=shoes+vegas+trip
Find the first post in this thread. It has a file with 60 shoes. It's great for practice. Just cover up the outcomes as you go and practice away. Helped me a lot.
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Yep, I'm still having trouble figuring out the correct play after the 1 or 2 unit secondary progression bet wins when it's an ATR bet. Especially when the shoe like this is choppy and there hasn't been any real long runs.
By play 14 there had been a 4iar and then a 3iar, confirmed after play 11, so when I won the 1b secondary progression bet ATR at play 14, I stayed OTR at play 15 and 16 following the last run of 3iar. That's what I did, not sure if correct, I'm still trying to get it figured out.
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Here's how I played it out, S40M1 +5.
image2014_05_06_09_42_320001.pdf
For some reason I can no longer attach the image to appear in the post. When I try to insert image from my computer nothing happens when I click the button to find the file. I can click on basic uploader and then it lets me include a link. I never used to have any problems, not sure why I am now.
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took s40M1 +5 version to the casino yesterday.
Here is the shoe:
B42131221121
B1221111111116
B31
Start the shoe at play #2 and stopped out with a -5 at play #6 facing a 2 bet. Brutal. By the time you would hit +6 you'd have faced -5 three times and -6 facing a 2 bet as well. Oops that's playing BaS40, not S40M1, my mistake.
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What other reasonable option do you have ? you are sitting there, having lost your secondary progression bet ATR.
Reasonable would be to just restart your primary progression. Might work, might not, but it's reasonable.
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Hand 15 is the 2nd bet of the secondary prog. The 1st secondary prog bet at hand 6 rules that hand 15 to bet 3 will stay 3. After that loss we go OTR with our 1st prog which is hand 16. It is a continuation of prog 1 bet. After it loses hand 17 restarts again with another prog 1 bet. Remember we are on Basic S40 therefore we restart prog 1 always with a 1 unit bet after OTR loses. This is similar at hand 12 and 13.
AYS
???
Would someone be willing to point out where in the posts Ellis says that after a ATR secondary progression bet loses that the next bet is an OTR primary progression continuation bet?
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play 17 is correct. We lost our OTR attempt at 16 so we are right back to betting 1,2 on opposites (S40) same as play 13.
Further explanation would be appreciated here. I don't follow the bet at play #16. If the ATR secondary progression bet of 1 at play #15 lost, why are you not restarting the primary progression at play #16? What am I missing here?
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Why is the bet at hand 14 a 0 instead of a 1?
I think because the secondary progression bet of 1 at play #5 won, so you are starting the secondary progression over with a zero bet the next time it comes up at play #14. I think. But don't listen to me, I've been told to reread the rules, so I better do that.
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Hi gman,
The zero bet indicates if we go OTR or ATR with are progression depending on if it won or lost,it might help you if you go over the rules again.
Hope this helps you.
Lou.
You are so wise to remind me to read the rules again. Thanks for that sound advise. (cue major sarcastic voice while reading).
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I think that hand 17 may be an OTR attempt similar to what we discussed yesterday. (361).
He lost all three bets ATR which includes the bet for the secondary prog.
Now there is nowhere to go but OTR.
Wendel
Sorry, I'm confused on this. How can play #17 be an OTR attempt when it is betting under a losing bet at play #16. What is the run? The only run I can see playing there in that spot is a ZZ run and what would have triggered that thinking at this point?
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Hand 17 should be a restart of prog 1 betting opposite after OTR loses.
I hate to see any consecutive loses of more than 4. I wonder if Ellis may have a solution that will NOT cause consecutive loses of more than 4?
AYS
How's that? I thought play #16 should be the restart of prog 1 betting, since it was after a loss of the secondary progression bet at play #15. So I don't get that bet on banker at #16. And the play at #15 was ATR not OTR, which I don't get either.
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MVS, as per the other thread, the bet at 7 occurred during the first run. Before we know which way to play them. Ellis said to stay on the first run.
Well, if the first run worked, why off the second one?
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Question:
In the corrected S40M1 shoe, why is play #18 a 1 secondary progression bet if the zero secondary progression bet right before it at play #14 was a winning bet? Wouldn't we still be betting a zero secondary progression bet each time until it loses and then the next secondary progression bet would be a 1 bet?
Same question on the B361 example shoe played? The first zero secondary progression bet won, so why is the next secondary progression bet a 1?
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Text book execution of NOR. So nice to see. Congrats!
Not quite text book, but still good play. FYI, M3 only goes on the run for one play under NOR rules I believe, but his adjustment of staying OTR until a loss is working for him.
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Anyone noticing at any casinos if any of them are taking the 8-pack of pre-shuffled cards and running them through the shuffle machine before they are being put in to play? I've seen some discussion that they are or may do this as extra insurance that the cards are really "shuffled" before being dealt. If this is the case then the idea that the casino had the pre-shuffled cards "fixed" or set as they wanted wouldn't make much sense. And if you say well the shuffle machine can keep it how they want the cards fixed, then my next question would be if the shuffle machine can put cards in any "fixed" order the casino wants, then why pay extra for pre-shuffled cards. Just an observation.
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Playing my usual NOR+ and in the blind on this shoe, I would start OTB4LM3 at play #2 with the U1D2 progression. I end up at +12 at the last play #33. That's how I'd have played it without any other knowledge of the shoe before this. Can't get more specific, but anyone can join up here and learn how all this works.
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AND, you don't require table selection. You can use it or not - your choice. But see, in random cards, how much good can table selection do??? I did't use it at all. Today I might use it a little just to see which of the 3 systems to start a table with. But, you're going to know after just a few plays anyway. And that choice is also completely mechanical.
After reading through the introduction several more times, I keep getting excited about this one little paragraph. I don't know about everyone else here, but table selection was always a tough part of the game for me. Not that I didn't do it, because I did. I spent countless hours reading and studying the forum to gain insights into what are the best things to look for on the tote boards to make the right decision about which of the three NOR systems to use. Then what became frustrating was finding what looked like a good table for a certain system and not being able to get a seat. I'm really intrigued by the idea of finding that open seat on a table and being able to sit down, watch a few plays, and know exactly which of the three +5 systems to use. If this really is possible, it will be a big advantage I believe.
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There isn't a video it is a forum. It will be Q and A forum format
K
I think this is a great way to do the teaching. It keeps everything right in the forum in chronological order for all members to study at there own pace. Looking forward to getting started.
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Wow, lots of questions swirling in my head after reading this introduction. I know all will be answered, I just need to be patient.
On this forum I intend to walk you through all 3 +5 systems and make them purely mechanical. Yes, I will be posting shoes and play by plays.This is a whole different concept of play - it doesn't give a hoot about shoe types or biases.
One thing that stuck out, right off the bat, as the most interesting question to me is how the two statements above are not contradicting each other. Maybe I'm just slow and its obvious to others but if there are no shoe types or biases to look for, why do you need 3 different systems? What are we looking for to determine which of the 3 to use? It will be interesting to find out.
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Ok well it says abandoned and not registered in the interface.
Did the funds go to Ellis_858@hotmail.com
Abandoned Addison, G***** gcaddiso******* 04/23/2014 10:28 AM EDT
Yes, my confirmation email says I have paid ellis_858@hotmail.com.
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No it didn't finish for you. This is totally an Ellis project so I placed his email address in the payment interface. He doesn't have a premier or business account which is needed for the constant contact paypal interface so it failed . I am using my email address for the payment now and it should work now.
Well I got a confirmation email from paypal and my credit card was charged, so I hope it worked.
+6 the hard way (S40M1 +5 version)
in BeatTheCasino.com Q and A Baccarat and Blackjack
Posted
That's a good way to explain it. If the ATR bet wins, it has terminated the run on the other side, so now just go back to betting opposite with the primary progression. That seems like an easy enough solution, until you hit a TT run and then when the sec prog ATR bet wins after 2 or 3 2iar's, you start to wonder if you shouldn't bet OTR with the TT run. Just a thought.