Mad Dog on Blackjack

[Guest chuck24]

Mr Davis, FINALLY. That was the info I was looking for. You have to have some idea of how many units you need to sit down at a bj table and be confident. Finally you said it. I've been through bj counting even though i wasn't a great counter but got barred three places anyhow. I realize card counting not what it used to be due to the stripping, machines, what not. I'm hardly a rookie and I wasn't arguing, just trying to get to a sensible answer. I would love to look that money mgt stuff up you spk about. I'll see if I can find it.

BTW, when I used to come to the site, it washeaded by your products where one could read about them. I was wanting to read about the NBJ manual again but now when i come to the site it brings me to the list of forums and no headers about what you have for sale.

Thanks for the info, all I was asking.

[Guest chuck24]

Mr Davis, I ask q's about money mgt and you say i don't know what i'm talking about? Fine, sir, if you're uncomfortable answering logical q's i won't bother you any more. If you don't want to admit that having a proper BR for ANY gambling is important then maybe it's you that's lacking. I'm puzzled why this logical q gets your ire up.I didn't come here to argue, i came to ask logical q's and learn. I certainly didn't come to be insulted. And I'm HARDLY a rookie. BTW, you finally did answer the q, so ask yourself, why didn't i tell that guy this right off?

[ECD]

Ok, friends again!

I guess your post got out of cue with mine. I'll have Keith delete your second post if you don't mind since, where it ended up it makes no sense.

Feel free to ask any questions you want on cash mgt. But just as you don't talk to race car drivers about car crashes, you don't talk to pro Bj players about players ruin. That belongs over on the amateur card counting channels, not here.

You should be pretty squared away now on our cash mgt. Aren't you? It's pretty simple.

I'm shocked you haven't asked any questions on our insurance betting. I'm sure that's the hottest BJ tip you ever got. You just don't realize that, yet.

[ECD]

Oh, I don't know why you aren't seeing the book ads. Copy your post and Email it to Keith. Whatever it is he can fix it. And check out Excerpts from the pro forum. You might find it interesting

[Guest CarlosM]

Ellis! As a side note, off topic, what did you think of the private message I sent you? Regarding Casino personnel and lurking?

[ECD]

Casinos have always been our most persistent buyers. There is no way we can stop them. There purchasing departments call me direct. "If you refuse to sell to us we'll just have one of our employees make the purchase". I ask them if they ever bought books from other writers and they just laugh and tell me that they never got a purchase order for any other author's materials. I don't see a thing we can do about it.

[Mad Dog]

I would say you could charge more when you sell to them on the theory that dissemination of the NBJ information to their floor staff is beyond the scope of fair use.

[ECD]

Right! I did when I knew. In fact Caesars Vegas was first and they offered to pay more or else....But that gave me the idea to charge them ALL more. I knew on about 40 or 50 of those deals but I know there was a LOT more than that. They had both NBJ and WCB in the dealer room at Turning Stone and all my newsletters. But Turning Stone never ordered direct from me.

When Mohegan Sun called they asked me to come in for a job interview teaching NBJ to their dealers. No thanks. I was making about $400,000 a month in those days so I certainly would not do it for a mil. Now had they offered ten mil.....

[Guest chuck24]

When I was just playing basic strategy i never took insurance. When I used a rudimentary card counting method from one of Patterson's books i needed to know there were a lot of 10's left or i never took insurance. Evidently, guess you guys handle it differently. Since you brght it up, how do you handle the insurance bet? Also the surrender bet?

[ECD]

I think you missed it in my post. That's what shocked me. I'm giving you the tip of your life and you want to talk player ruin. Go back and read it again. I told you exactly how to do it.

Surrender is a much more complex subject. I wrote a whole chapter on it. I think its in the WCB manual. There is a lot of hidden math in the surrender option and my Chapter on it is the most thorough and most comprehensive study ever undertaken on that subject. But is is far too complex to take up here. Proper Surrender is VERY tricky.

Insurance is cut and dry. It is amazing to me how all of these BJ authors never figured it out. They are asleep at the switch.

But it is no surprise to me that card counting can't produce a single winner. I challenged every card counting channel on the internet to produce one single winner that's ahead just for one year. Nobody could. I invite them to play and they don't show up. I don't think they have a single writer that actually plays. I never heard of any of Them doing a public BJ exhibition. Why? While they are struggling to keep an exact count they miss what is happening right under their nose. Insurance went right over their heads. Even their big Guru Standford Wong quit and went to work for Jerry Patterson on Craps. Why? I played full time and never saw any of these writers in a casino. Not a single one except Kenny Houston. He couldn't win and that was before shuffle machines were invented.

Btw, it wasn't shuffle machines that killed card counting. It was multi deck. Card counters started losing before shuffle machines were invented. The count is the count. What Earthly difference does it make how the cards got shuffled. Might as well blame it on the waitress.

Card counting authors say there is no such thing as clumping. That is ridiculous. Haven't they ever even watched a real BJ game? Every street player in the world and every dealer KNOWS the cards are clumped. What does the card counter think he's counting? How else did the count get to -12? You just passed a high card clump. Why weren't you betting? That's when the Player has the advantage. They are hopeless. They are living in a world that passed them by 20 years ago. Those days are gone forever.

[Guest chuck24]

I'm pretty sure I learned about clumping many yrs ago from Patterson. So some counters are aware of it. Right, multidecks and changing casino rules and shuffling helped kill card counting. Shuffles matter cause that's how they slip in the clumped cards, isn't it? Also if they spotted you as a counter they asked you to leave even if you were making just a couple hundred or so. That's what happened to me. Thanks for answering my q's.

[ECD]

Right, and Patterson learned it many years ago from me. In fact, Patterson inspired me to write NBJ and was my first publisher.

Clumping, as I wrote in my breakthrough article in '86 in Eddie Olsen's BJ Confidential, is caused by the card pickup and preserved and often enhanced by the shuffle. Recognize that this is precisely why the casinos pick up the mostly low break cards first and the mostly high stand cards last. This sorts the highs vs lows as cleanly as the double discard shoe at the Bahamas Playboy Club did in the mid 80's. They got shut down for that, among other things. Even the Bahamians saw through it. Of course, the casino party line is "we do that so we don't accidently pay a breaking hand". Pure bull! When is the last time you saw a dealer pay a losing hand? If they didn't pick up the break cards first and simply swept up all hands in order, they could settle all arguments at the table by simply dealing the cards right back from the discard shoe. But no! They'd rather have fights and keep their 16% take rate.

One of the Minnesota casinos "called my bluff" after I did a seminar and casino exhibition In Minneapolis. They picked up the cards in order for a month. Their take rate dropped like a rock from 50%, published in all the MN newspapers, to 6%, exactly what it was in Vegas back in the single deck days. I rest my case. Red faced, they went right back to their normal pick up routine and right back to their normal, but incredible, 50% take rate.

Then, in the shuffle, high clumps get shuffled with high clumps and low clumps with low clumps creating longer high and low clumps. The LAST thing casinos want is random cards which only produce a 6% take rate. They would go broke in short order.

We use clumping to make both our bet and play decisions. This is a hundred times more accurate than the count and/or basic strategy which fully depends on a 28% dealer break rate which NEVER happens in the real world.

What gets my ire up as you so politely put it, isn't you or even card counters. At least they play. What really gets my ire up is the FACT that card counting book authors and instructors aren't stupid. They certainly know all this but its bad for sales. So they deceive their own students for the sake of sales dollars knowing full well that their players will certainly lose playing that way just as they have been doing for 20 Years. To me, that's criminal!

I end up picking up the pieces of literally thousands of broken card counters and putting their life back together again. It gets tiresome. Their teachers knowingly did that to them and they did it for money. THAT gets my ire up. Card Counting instructors MUST teach Players Ruin because all of their players are headed straight for it. They want their players to expect it so they condition them for it so that when it happens they don't ask for their money back. They teach both, players ruin and standard deviation. If card counters simply checked with each other they would soon realize that they are ALL on the negative side of standard deviation. It is an instructor created excuse to lose and it works every time. The losing counters never ask for their money back because they are conditioned to believe that they lost because they played wrong, just as happened to you.

One card counting student was told in writing, on the internet, look it up, "of course you lost! You played your pairs of 4's wrong". How in God's name could a player be that gullible? You probably won't get a pair of 4's all day and when you do it doesn't matter a hoot how you play them. The real odds are the same! But the player went off happily to lose some more and it never occurred to him to DEMAND his money back!

So now you know why my ire gets up when somebody starts spewing card counting lingo on MY channel. The card counter is between a rock and a hard place, his instructor and the dealer. Both are out to see him lose. To me, its discusting and it should be illegal!

Players ruin is totally unnecessary and 100% avoidable. Listen to these NBJ pros. You are still suffering from remnants of your brainwasking. Until you get rid of all that crap and open your mind, you will be unteachable. I've been through it all a thousand times. I don't teach players ruin because MY players don't need it. Card counting students absolutely do.

[Guest chuck24]

I came here to learn not to "spew" card counting lingo as you call it. I know card counting doesn't work anymore, but i can only ask q's based on my own exp and that was my exp. that's why i was asking q's about NBJ. Yes Gambler's Ruin or Players ruin can be avoided by having the proper br to play a winning method. A winning method can lose due to improper BR. That's all I was getting at and somehow it's viewed with disdain by you so i canonly guess you are completely misinterpreting what i'm saying. You finally said your players sit dn at a table with 12 units. That's an answer and completely satisfies me. That's all I was getting at.

[Guest CarlosM]

Yes! 12 units is what we buy in at a table we choose to play. It doesnèt mean we will always need all 12 units to win. I myself know that a lot of the times I play a table and buy in at 12 units, I never needed more than 1 or 2 units to win 60 units!

[Mad Dog]

That's nothing! One time I bought in with one unit and walked away with one thousand units!!!!

Just kidding. But I can say that when you find the right table, this thing works unreasonably well.

[ECD]

Well Chuck asked a similar question before on the 146 thread and I told him less than a month ago that our buy in is always 12 units.

Quote from 9/28 "our buy in is ALWAYS 12 units. We call that a pile. Our first goal is to make 3 piles not counting our buy in... Quote.

I spewed on for another page about our cash mgt, That's why I couldn't understand Chuck's post on GR. Made no sense to me. Out of context. Let's forget it. I think he understands our cash mgt. now and maybe just had a momentary lapse. That's what happens when you get my age. And since Chuck is very familiar with play conditions in the '70's....?

But Chuck, did you understand our insurance strategy? That one tip can make you enough money in a matter of days to pay for several NBJ manuals particularly at todays prices.

Also I mentioned to you that you could make a good bankroll with our first base no rent ploy. I'm surprised you didn't want to hear more about that????

And, are you catching the mathematics of why our play decision basis and our betting basis is so much more accurate than....your prior cohorts let's call them?

And, not to be intrusive, I'm curious about your downtown to strip hardship. Are you handicapped in any way? If so, I have a lot of experience with handicapped players and can make certain recommendatios. For instance, First base no rent may not be an option for you but there are others??? If this is the case, let's get it out in the open either right here or Email me private if you want.

[Guest chuck24]

Yep, you read my mind. I was going to ask you about that first base ploy. I'm afraid i completely missed what you were saying about insurance. I was going to read that full page ad again you had about the NBJ manual but can't find it on your board.

I'm not handicapped except i don't drive anymore, haven't in 3o yrs and that's a long story. I can take a bus downtown or to the strip but hate the damn things. I live 8 blocks from Jerry's Nugget in N. Lv where i bet a few horses and haven't played BJ in years as I gave up in disgust many yrs ago. But your manual sounds most interesting, hence the questions.

[ECD]

Yep, you read my mind. I was going to ask you about that first base ploy. I'm afraid i completely missed what you were saying about insurance. I was going to read that full page ad again you had about the NBJ manual but can't find it on your board.

I'm not handicapped except i don't drive anymore, haven't in 3o yrs and that's a long story. I can take a bus downtown or to the strip but hate the damn things. I live 8 blocks from Jerry's Nugget in N. Lv where i bet a few horses and haven't played BJ in years as I gave up in disgust many yrs ago. But your manual sounds most interesting, hence the questions.

Ha ha, well in Vegas, not driving is probably more of a blessing than a handicap. The reason I needed to know is that NBJ does take some footwork for proper table selection, not nearly as much as Target, but some. I once told Jerry that Target is a great weight loss program. The no rent first base ploy requires a lot of time on your feet. If you were not ambulatory I would have pointed you toward the U2Hi.

I've had many students confined to wheel chairs. One even made the Bahamas team play trip with us and had a ball. His team won the most money and he continued on to be an excellent player. When he died his wife posted on the forum that we had given him the best years of his life and had returned him to his roll of chief bread winner. Did my heart good!

In the First Base ploy we use a simple parlor trick to tell us when we have the advantage on the NEXT hand. When we do, of course, we make our high bet. The rest of the time we make our low bet. We call the low bet hands "rent". Now, mind you, this is not as easy as it sounds because first, you must know how to select good first base games. But that is fully detailed in your NBJ manual and it is ridiculously easy when you know how.

I've often said: "it's much easier to walk into a casino with a million dollars trying to make $25 than to walk in with 25 trying to make a million. In fact, as you know, it is virtually impossible to make any money in a casino out of $25. That is, unless you know the First Base No Rent Ploy. Then it is easy to make a good bankroll out of $25. Here's what you do:

First you find a good first base game. You need a manual for that but it is not hard at all. Good first base games are very easy to identify. Then you say to the first base player, "You are a real good player, do you mind if I make a few bets over your shoulder." See, you have just circumvented the two most casino favorable rules, the minimum bet rule and the must bet every hand rule. Those rules simply don't apply to "back bettors" in any casino. Now, of course, you only bet the advantage hands. You pay "no rent" for your game. It is a sure winner. Maybe not the most fun way to play but we aren't there for fun and winning is always fun no matter how you did it. You can start with nickels and work your way to quarters. At $300, you have enough for a buy in at a green table. Hey, where there is a will, there is a way!

I can't cut back and copy the insurance post now that I've begun this post but its just a page or 2 back in this same thread so you can find it easy. Now THAT, you don't need a manual for. You could do it tomorrow. I even told you how to find the right games. It's the biggest tip I've posted to the public in 20 years.

Think about this! There is nothing to stop you from betting insurance no rent!

There is a little known ruling in BJ that says you can insure anybody's hand, not just your own. Casinos allow this because insurance is normally one of the worse bets in a casino. But not if you know how. And I told you exactly how. Find a game where tens are following tens out of the dealer shoe half the time or thereabouts. This is NOT hard to do. On a crowded Sat night it may very well be most tables because the more cards are played the more they clump. When you find this table the players are usually losing big time because basic strategy can't beat a sufficiently clumped game because the dealer will be nowhere near a 28% break rate, a must for basic strategy. Stand where you can see the third base players hand.

Ok, the dealer gets an ace up. She will do this more than 1 out of 13 in a clumped game. Ever notice that? Ok, the dealer gets an Ace up. Check the third base players 2nd card. When its a ten, insure! His second card is the card just before the dealers hole card. If its a ten, the dealer's odds of having a ten in the hole are exactly the same as the tens following tens ratio. Get it? This is not an opinion, it's an absolute mathematical FACT.

Now you don't just insure the 3rd base players hand. You insure EVERYBODY's hand at the table. YES, you are allowed to do that. It's perfectly legal! Now, if somebody has a $1000 bet out, you don't insure for $500, you insure for what you can reasonably afford. The dealer will wait for you because she is taught that insurance is a stupid bet. You can always insure for less, You just can't insure for more. Your odds of winning are 50% but the payoff on insurance is 2 to 1. Do you see that? It is the best bet in the casino and in the long run its an absolute winner. You don't have to win half the time, you only have to win a third of the time to break even. Do you think you can win a third of the time when the odds are 50 50? I certainly hope so. If not, you better start going to church.

Look, open your mind! Insurance is not insurance! You aren't insurring anything! Insurance is a simple side bet. You are simply betting the dealer has a ten in the hole, nothing more, nothing less. When she does, they pay you 2 to 1. You can bet up to half of the TOTAL money bet on the table by all of the players combined! This is the tip of your life, you will never get a better one anywhere. It is a reward from me, E. Clifton Davis, to all of you just for being a reader of my forum. The only thing I ask in return is please, tell your friends about this forum and how to get on it. Is it a scam? No. Ask ANY mathematician. It's pure math, nothing more, nothing less. Does it work? You bet! Nothing up my sleeves, count my fingers. Do the casinos know about this? Thank God, no! Not yet! Is it legal? Absolutely! Can I do it next Saturday? Have you got $25? Then absolutely. Now go out and tell your friends about this forum. I want everybody reading MY forum to have a great way to make money. When you've got $200, buy the NBJ manual. We've got a thousand tricks just like that one. No bull! Our players win! Ask them! I HATE casinos. I want ALL my players to take their money. I make darn sure MY players do exactly that!

[Guest chuck24]

One more question: You say table selection is important. So how long do you monitor a table before moving on to another table?

[ECD]

Excellent question! You aren't making money walking the isles or monitoring tables but you are preparing the way to make money faster. So your time is not wasted. Time in a losing game IS wasted. So one object of good table selection is to avoid losing games. Characteristics of such games stick out like a sore thumb when you know exactly what to look for. Most tables can be eliminated from consideration W/O even breaking stride in your walk down the isle between tables. You can check both sides W/O breaking stride. Often entire pits can be eliminated by time of day criteria and day of week criteria. But good tables also stand out. Certain criteria makes a table worth a second look. It can be included or eliminated within about 3 hands so you are not there long. Your objective is to find the EASIEST table for you to beat in the entire casino. That's what Pro BJ is all about. You may include several tables as candidates. A third look will tell you the best table. You aren't ALWAYS right. That is why we have such a small buy in. When you ARE right, and you usually are, that small buy in is all you need. THAT is how pros play.

How the other players are doing is of little consequence. You aren't going to play like they play. Heaven forbid! You are looking for YOUR criteria for YOUR brand of play.

[ECD]

A similar question always comes up: Don't people complain when you don't make the book play? Very, very seldom. Remember that you are ALWAYS at either first or third. People don't question you when they have to dodge around your chip piles just to see you. But once in a while.....

I recall a late night green 3 player game at Foxwood. I was at first. The third base player complained about a play I made even though the play won. I said, look Buddy, I've been playing here for an hour. I bought in once with 12 chips. I now have 6 more piles of 12 chips. Since I have been here, you have gotten your wallet out 6 times while I patiently waited for the dealer to count out even more chips to you. Yet YOU insist on telling ME how to play BJ. After that, I had the table to myself which is exactly what I wanted in the first place. NBJ players are at their greatest advantage head to head.

So how do card counting instructors fare in such games? I have no idea. I never saw one in a real casino.

[Guest CarlosM]

Ha ha, well in Vegas, not driving is probably more of a blessing than a handicap. The reason I needed to know is that NBJ does take some footwork for proper table selection, not nearly as much as Target, but some. I once told Jerry that Target is a great weight loss program. The no rent first base ploy requires a lot of time on your feet. If you were not ambulatory I would have pointed you toward the U2Hi.

I've had many students confined to wheel chairs. One even made the Bahamas team play trip with us and had a ball. His team won the most money and he continued on to be an excellent player. When he died his wife posted on the forum that we had given him the best years of his life and had returned him to his roll of chief bread winner. Did my heart good!

In the First Base ploy we use a simple parlor trick to tell us when we have the advantage on the NEXT hand. When we do, of course, we make our high bet. The rest of the time we make our low bet. We call the low bet hands "rent". Now, mind you, this is not as easy as it sounds because first, you must know how to select good first base games. But that is fully detailed in your NBJ manual and it is ridiculously easy when you know how.

I've often said: "it's much easier to walk into a casino with a million dollars trying to make $25 than to walk in with 25 trying to make a million. In fact, as you know, it is virtually impossible to make any money in a casino out of $25. That is, unless you know the First Base No Rent Ploy. Then it is easy to make a good bankroll out of $25. Here's what you do:

First you find a good first base game. You need a manual for that but it is not hard at all. Good first base games are very easy to identify. Then you say to the first base player, "You are a real good player, do you mind if I make a few bets over your shoulder." See, you have just circumvented the two most casino favorable rules, the minimum bet rule and the must bet every hand rule. Those rules simply don't apply to "back bettors" in any casino. Now, of course, you only bet the advantage hands. You pay "no rent" for your game. It is a sure winner. Maybe not the most fun way to play but we aren't there for fun and winning is always fun no matter how you did it. You can start with nickels and work your way to quarters. At $300, you have enough for a buy in at a green table. Hey, where there is a will, there is a way!

I can't cut back and copy the insurance post now that I've begun this post but its just a page or 2 back in this same thread so you can find it easy. Now THAT, you don't need a manual for. You could do it tomorrow. I even told you how to find the right games. It's the biggest tip I've posted to the public in 20 years.

Think about this! There is nothing to stop you from betting insurance no rent!

There is a little known ruling in BJ that says you can insure anybody's hand, not just your own. Casinos allow this because insurance is normally one of the worse bets in a casino. But not if you know how. And I told you exactly how. Find a game where tens are following tens out of the dealer shoe half the time or thereabouts. This is NOT hard to do. On a crowded Sat night it may very well be most tables because the more cards are played the more they clump. When you find this table the players are usually losing big time because basic strategy can't beat a sufficiently clumped game because the dealer will be nowhere near a 28% break rate, a must for basic strategy. Stand where you can see the third base players hand.

Ok, the dealer gets an ace up. She will do this more than 1 out of 13 in a clumped game. Ever notice that? Ok, the dealer gets an Ace up. Check the third base players 2nd card. When its a ten, insure! His second card is the card just before the dealers hole card. If its a ten, the dealer's odds of having a ten in the hole are exactly the same as the tens following tens ratio. Get it? This is not an opinion, it's an absolute mathematical FACT.

Now you don't just insure the 3rd base players hand. You insure EVERYBODY's hand at the table. YES, you are allowed to do that. It's perfectly legal! Now, if somebody has a $1000 bet out, you don't insure for $500, you insure for what you can reasonably afford. The dealer will wait for you because she is taught that insurance is a stupid bet. You can always insure for less, You just can't insure for more. Your odds of winning are 50% but the payoff on insurance is 2 to 1. Do you see that? It is the best bet in the casino and in the long run its an absolute winner. You don't have to win half the time, you only have to win a third of the time to break even. Do you think you can win a third of the time when the odds are 50 50? I certainly hope so. If not, you better start going to church.

Look, open your mind! Insurance is not insurance! You aren't insurring anything! Insurance is a simple side bet. You are simply betting the dealer has a ten in the hole, nothing more, nothing less. When she does, they pay you 2 to 1. You can bet up to half of the TOTAL money bet on the table by all of the players combined! This is the tip of your life, you will never get a better one anywhere. It is a reward from me, E. Clifton Davis, to all of you just for being a reader of my forum. The only thing I ask in return is please, tell your friends about this forum and how to get on it. Is it a scam? No. Ask ANY mathematician. It's pure math, nothing more, nothing less. Does it work? You bet! Nothing up my sleeves, count my fingers. Do the casinos know about this? Thank God, no! Not yet! Is it legal? Absolutely! Can I do it next Saturday? Have you got $25? Then absolutely. Now go out and tell your friends about this forum. I want everybody reading MY forum to have a great way to make money. When you've got $200, buy the NBJ manual. We've got a thousand tricks just like that one. No bull! Our players win! Ask them! I HATE casinos. I want ALL my players to take their money. I make darn sure MY players do exactly that!

Oh my God! That is the best BJ post ever posted on the internet anywhere by anyone, EVER! Only Ellis can afford to give the public actual money making secrets because he knows so many. That tip is worth money! I know because I use it all the time. NOBODY else knows how to win on insurance. That tip is just one of many that ELLIS teaches us but, THAT tip has made me money time and time again. Ellis proves again that he sees straight through this game. Nobody else sees it with that kind of clarity. I know because I've tried everybody. Once you find Ellis, you stop looking. There ain't nobody better. Ellis is the end of the road! There was blackjack before Ellis but, now the game has changed. Now the players can win! The tide has turned! Thanks again Ellis!

[Mad Dog]

Yes, Ellis you seem to be revealing one of the secrets of NBJ. Are you going to start giving the rest away?

[ECD]

Ha ha, not on your life. Yes, that is the most revealing tip I ever gave for free but there is a method to my madness.

When I started, there was no internet. I gained all the prominence I needed doing live casino exhibitions in front of large crowds. This generation doesn't know me from Adam. When it comes to gaming, nearly all of what they see on the internet is phony baloney. Some is obvious and some not so obvious. I get calls and Emails on a regular basis from good people who fell victim to these scams. How do they know that my program is any different? How do they know that NBJ is not a scam but is the best way BJ can be played. They don't, and there is nothing I can say to remedy that. So, instead of making a bunch of groundless claims like everybody else. I decided that a sample of how NBJ works is far more convincing. Yes, maybe my sample will be over the heads of some novices and some it won't be. But they can always ask questions of someone who knows, like you, for instance. I'm hoping they will learn that tip really is a hot tip and want to know more.

[Mad Dog]

OK, because I paid good money for that material, and if it was going to be given away, I was going to ask for my money back. HAHA