F2

[Guest]

Hi Ellis, and all Twister players.

Ellis, I read your post in the public forum about Dr. Jim Bower's (is that JimU?)trip to Vegas. Do you know exactly all the changes he made to the F2Net Bet to attain such stunning results. With the rules you explained he used I tried on my shoes at home. I just have a few questions.

1. Do the proggressions pause at 5 until a two in a row on the other side where at that point it would resume at 6?

2. Once the proggression is resumed at 6, do we continue this for 6, 7, and 8 if the bets lose?

3. What is the highest that the proggressions go?

4. Do we ALWAYS pause at 5, even if the proggressions are 4 vs. 5?

5. Once an 8 is won but a 6 is lost, do we pause again?

6. How much do the 6, 7, and 8's go down when they are won?

7. When the blue progression is following the two, do we still allow three plays for it to catch?

Thanks, Smitty

Hi Smitty, Jim U and everybody. Yeah since the F2N came to be in stages, it was hard to follow since all the rules are not in one place. Then the confusion of the two Jims who have both been with me 15 - 20 years or more and are both highly experienced players. Too Bad Jim B doesn't type. Jim B plays the left shore and Jim U the right. Jim B believes that the new MD2 shuffle machines, with their card readers are capable of producing designer shoes. (that we are playing against shoes completely designed by expert casino personnel.) This makes perfect sense to me.

Anyway, I call the two progs in the F2N the F2 prog and the F2N prog. Both progs are U1D1, down 2 at circled 6's or higher, mandatory 2. We pause either prog at an uncircled 5 and resume under a 2 in a row ON THE PAUSED SIDE. We resume at 6 since that 6 will always be against at least a 3.

The F2N prog is strictly a slave prog and bets where the F2 prog doesn't. So I'll give you the F2 prog rules first. (F2 = follow the 2).

F2 starts under the first 2 in a row in the game. It switches sides under a 2 in a row on the other side and follows under all 2 in a rows. Except that it must stay on a side for 3 plays min. once it switches to a side or at the game start. This protects the F2 prog from the TT's.

The F2N prog starts opposite the F2 start at 1 making the first entry 1 vs 1. and the 2nd entry 2 vs 2. We don't usually need a 0 start with this sys. However, if a shoe began with a 7 in a row,or more, we would find ourselves at -8 at play 7. Therefore, at a streaky table you might want to start the F2N prog at 0 instead of 1 and go to 1 only after a winning 0. This would put you at +7 at play 7 instead of -8. But it tends to hurt a little on the vast majority of shoes. A better option in a KNOWN super streak situation is to simply play the F2.

We only pause at 5 when that 5 follows a losing 4, not when the 5 follows a winning 7. Remember, down 2 on all circled entries of 6 or more.

A paradox arises when the F2N prog loses a 5 because the resume 6 entry bets exactly where the F2 prog should be betting according to the F2 rules.

Jim handled this by simply following the 3 in this case. So if the return 2 in a row went to 3 he switched sides. This did well so I'm telling you that option. The other option is to simply call the resume progression the F2 progression. In other words switch progressing names so that the resuming progression is always the F2 progression. I doubt it makes any difference in the long run.

Two interesting options exist for the heads up player. Jim did spectacular w/o using either of these because his shoes were relatively consistent.

1. If either prog is consistently doing better than the other one, you have the option of dropping the weaker prog for the remainder of the shoe. Or

2. We can play the weaker prog U1D2 and the stronger prog U1D1.

Jim attributes his extreme success to the fact that the casinos have never seen this system before and therefore have no shoes designed to beat it. The F2N is unphased by 311s and 113s when you think about it. So the F2N goes well with the notion that our real goal is to beat whatever they are dishing out at the moment. If they are dishing out 311s and 113s, let's play a system that likes them!

I think that covers all the questions above. Yes a losing 6 goes to 7. In 15 shoes Jim got to the 8 entry once. Again, I think I covered Jim's play accurately but I'm sure he'll let me know if I got anything wrong. BTW, the higher scores are directy attributable to playing the more aggressive 1U1D.

An interesting aside: I'm looking at a brand new 3 Hi. I call it the DN3Hi. It's a wholly different way of playing with a 3 max bet that seems to be doing too well winning both chop and streak and doing very well with 311's and 113's. I've got some i's to dot and T's to cross but it is very easy and a whole new approach. I'll get back to you on it as soon as I've played more shoes.

[ECD]

Hi Ellis,

One question on F2: when a 2 in a row on the other side

happens, but we're only 2 plays in on the current side, so

we stay one more on the current side to 3 plays, then if

we win on that third play, do we still switch to the other

side (now one past the 2 in a row)?

A question on F2N: this is -not- net betting? That is,

the F2 controls the bet unless it is paused? In which

case, F2N controls the bet?

Thanks, Jim

Good questions! I should have covered this.

On the first question the answer is no. The third bet presents a brand new ball game. In fact if the TT's continue it is best to play straight down until they end. Each prog wins half it bets which is optimum. TT's end either with a one in a row or a 3 or more. With a one in a row both progs still bet straight down awaiting a 2 in a row across from the F2 prog. In the case of a 3 in a row the F2 prog would follow the 3.

On the second question: Yes the F2 controls the bet placement and is the lead prog while the F2N is the slave prog. When either prog pauses, I think its best to call the paused prog the F2 prog. While it is paused our table bet is the entry of the other prog just as if the paused prog was betting 0's until it wins 2 0's in a row. Now Jim did not play that way. He kept the intergity of the F2 prog and if the resuming 2 in a row went to 3 he followed that 3 with the F2 prog. Maybe Jim could look at both ways on his shoes and see which way fares better. Any questions?

[aegis21]

Here is an old post from Ellis on F2 rules -

[Audionut]

An interesting aside: I'm looking at a brand new 3 Hi. I call it the DN3Hi. It's a wholly different way of playing with a 3 max bet that seems to be doing too well winning both chop and streak and doing very well with 311's and 113's. I've got some i's to dot and T's to cross but it is very easy and a whole new approach. I'll get back to you on it as soon as I've played more shoes.

Just curious...did anything ever become of this??? Inquiring minds want to know