Question on s40

[S.X.C]

Hi... Guys

A few question regarding nor.

S40 :

- Whats the difference between s40 stand alone and s40 , i am guessing the manual that i read is s 40 stand alone (13 pages in total) ???

- whats is the sap counts after 5,6,7,8 in the row since s 40 only have 4 heading only, whether is still counted 8 ???

- lets say that for this particular shoe the LC is 3 , am i right to said i have to bet 4 if is OTR ????

- on the manual page 8 what is the meaning ????

Streak:we play 4.2-2 are culprit

Chop : we play 4.3 if 3s are lc or 44 if 4s are lc.

Neutral : we play 40 n

- for new member like me ellis , what progression is suitable for each system ???

E.g f2 : 234 , s 40 : u1d2m2 , or obtl :flat betting . Maybe ellis can aswer me.

Thank you guys......in advance. I am glad that i become a btc member that is so much information here and it all make a lot of sense.

I been praticing using i pad apps , quite happy with the result. Cant wait to go mbs but i reckon i give myself one more week to practices and i am good to go.

I am sorry to post so many question in one thread just eager to learn as much as possible as i can .

Good day.....guys and girls.

[Guest]

Hi... Guys

A few question regarding nor.

S40 :

- Whats the difference between s40 stand alone and s40 , i am guessing the manual that i read is s 40 stand alone (13 pages in total) ???

- whats is the sap counts after 5,6,7,8 in the row since s 40 only have 4 heading only, whether is still counted 8 ???

- lets say that for this particular shoe the LC is 3 , am i right to said i have to bet 4 if is OTR ????

- on the manual page 8 what is the meaning ????

Streak:we play 4.2-2 are culprit

Chop : we play 4.3 if 3s are lc or 44 if 4s are lc.

Neutral : we play 40 n

- for new member like me ellis , what progression is suitable for each system ???

E.g f2 : 234 , s 40 : u1d2m2 , or obtl :flat betting . Maybe ellis can aswer me.

Thank you guys......in advance. I am glad that i become a btc member that is so much information here and it all make a lot of sense.

I been praticing using i pad apps , quite happy with the result. Cant wait to go mbs but i reckon i give myself one more week to practices and i am good to go.

I am sorry to post so many question in one thread just eager to learn as much as possible as i can .

Good day.....guys and girls.

SXC, you are listed above as a NOR member so I assume you have the NOR manual, right.

Forget the s40 manual. It is superseded by the NOR manual which contains a much simpler version of S40. All the rules are on one page. You don't need SAP. The 3rd bet rule in your NOR manual is more effective. Just stick to the NOR threads and ask your questions in the NOR threads.

Your base NOR progressions are 123 in Mode 2 and 123 4 in Mode 3.

The 234 and 345 are only for exploit situations. But you need to get your basics down for the 3 NOR systems first. Most of our players don't even bother with the higher progs.

I should get the S40 forum removed because it just serves to confuse you at this point. Stick with your NOR manual. Everything you need to know is in that one manual. You have it, right?

Edited July 21, 2012 by Guest

[S.X.C]

The nor manual ....yes .

Ellis, do i need to learn NB as well ????

Been reading a few post from btc player based in asia most of them agree that NOR is not ideal in asia casino due to card shuffling constantly , so should i learn nb as well . If u worried that too much food on my plate , dont worry . I will try my best to understand it.

Yesterday, when to mbs too play sic bo took a glanced at baccarat table count the OR -11 , started play at hand 30 using f system by the end of the shoe

+14 random progression , if using 123-4 i will be up +8 . Played 1 shoe than go back to sic bo table.

Thank you....ellis fot the reply.

[Guest]

The nor manual ....yes .

Ellis, do i need to learn NB as well ????

Been reading a few post from btc player based in asia most of them agree that NOR is not ideal in asia casino due to card shuffling constantly , so should i learn nb as well . If u worried that too much food on my plate , dont worry . I will try my best to understand it.

Yesterday, when to mbs too play sic bo took a glanced at baccarat table count the OR -11 , started play at hand 30 using f system by the end of the shoe

+14 random progression , if using 123-4 i will be up +8 . Played 1 shoe than go back to sic bo table.

Thank you....ellis fot the reply.

You know SXC, it's mixed in Asia. Some of the Asians there prefer NOR and some prefer NB. I guess it depends on where you play and I do not have a good handle yet on which works best at the different casinos there. Yes, I think you should definitely also study NB, try it and see for yourself which works best at YOUR casino. But glad to see you are already doing well.

[daytrader77459]

Hi, Ellis, SXC,

I have not played in Macau for many years. Mostly I play in Vegas by far - and in the major Strip places, the baccarat shoes come prepackaged and preshuffled and supposedly verified in terms of complete 8 decks.

When scouting baccarat playing areas, I often see multiple computer screen displays showing the current shoes being played out. Many times, several tables will be showing similar shoe types - like ideal for S40, or OBL. Less often, occasional F/SS shoes.

Having gone thru evolutionary and revolutionary learning processes, all the way back to Twister, etc., I have found that many of the tools and methods in BTC are quite valid and very playable. For example, Net Betting - either with 0 vs 00 start, or 11 start, etc., or S40/OBL/F starts. All work fine if you have the critical success factors in place:

1. Disciplined, quiet, well rested mindset and mental capital at the start of your playing day.

2. Sufficient bankroll to weather the "per shoe" volatility depending on your system(s) employed, and the progressions utilized.

3. An idea or bias as to which system is best for the "current and immediate" shoes you are seeing in your playing areas.

4. Having the discipline to EXIT quickly if you are not winning after 5-6 bets consecutively - probably choosing incorrect system.

5. Having the mental flexibility and confidence - to switch to alternative system(s) when things go badly. I personally do not like to switch systems mid-shoe, and prefer to EXIT myself at small losses if necessary. Then reassess. Ellis and senior members may have the experience depth and flexibility to change and adjust mid-shoe. However, for beginning students, I would recommend not to switch.

Instead, you can sit out 10-15 hands if necessary, track several methods at once, and see which system is having the best "hit rate" with the 1st or 2nd bets. Then select to play out that method - and look to exit if the shoe begins to turn against you. Ellis had termed this the "overlay process" in earlier threads.

Your question of NB vs NOR is a good one. From a learning/research basis, definitely try to learn and understand deeply BOTH. However, from a playing system with focus on high "per shoe" profitability, I still believe that the guidelines and selection/filter criteria described in depth in the NOR manual remains the easiest to understand deeply (thus allowing your belief system to gain confidence and trust in your own judgments and playing/betting decisions) and easiest to execute with few errors.

And, of course, hopefully you can couple whichever system with the strongest betting progressions such as 112, 123, U1D2, etc.

If you are serious about trying to play for higher unit stakes, you must believe and trust in whichever (NB or NOR) "vehicle" will get you to your destination. I remain committed to NOR and SAP but as a permanent student of gaming, I continue to learn and test NB, and other developments all the time.

I play baccarat and BJ almost daily. But it is NOT my primary income source so technically I am NOT a professional full-time player, I guess. I only play when I have criteria (1) - (5) above solidly focused in my mindset. I play with a VERY SPECIFIC FOCUS - to execute my strategy well, and to exit profitably per shoe, and to have a high probability of % of winning shoes and winning days. My % winning shoes is not as high yet - as Ellis stated at 90% per shoe win rate. My % win rate per shoe remains at about 70%. However, my % daily win rate and % weekly win rate remains very high at 85%. I do not have any secrets to sell or teach. Only hard work, tons of patience and personal discipline, and deep focus on strategy/betting execution with zero errors.

When I feel uncertain, when I feel "I can't give back too much of my profits" - these are good internal signals that I should close the day, or at least take a good minimum 1 hour break to regain my balance and reset for criteria (1) - (5) again. Fear of giving back profits is a HUGE gremlin of mine - and I try to benefit from this weakness as a signal to take a break so I can refresh and get aggressive and competitive again to extract profits from the shoes. As the saying goes, "scared money never wins", "scared money is lost money".

In closing, just choose one - the power of the approach, coupled with a powerful betting progression, plus having sufficient mental discipline, trust, confidence is critical to your playing success. Do NOT allow yourself to undergo self sabotage. When shoes go badly, often it is NOT the system fault - it is the player's incorrect system selection or failure to correctly execute the system. Perform detailed note-taking after your playing sessions. Learn from your internal dialogue and internal emotions. Learn to "coach" yourself in the most positive and beneficial way possible! Research, ask questions, test your assumptions, be critical of your decisions and results! But, know that we all have to go thru these processes - there are no shortcuts to immediate mastery/gains!

Playing well will bring in permanent rewards in terms of self confidence, patience, and discipline. The monetary rewards and profits will come accordingly later - after you have developed a rigorous high-standards professional profile as a player.

Good luck and win lots there in Asia!!!

Regards,

Daytrader77459

PS - Don't hesitate and challenge assumptions/guidelines. In addition to Ellis, Keith, there are so many experienced players in BTC that can share all their battle scars, lessons learned, critical success factors.

PSS - As a great side benefit of being in BTC, I have also enjoyed making friendships and playing with skilled players including Way2Fast, NormA, HawaiianAl. Hopefully you will also make such connections there in Asia. I would imagine most skilled players in Asia will focus in Macau, and Singapore, at this time. You should definitely try to communicate and meet and play together and develop a collective learning "trust".

[S.X.C]

Hi.. Daytrader 77459

Thank you ......for the lenghty of write up and words of encouragement .

I am sure i can take a lot of tips from this post and apply to my play and be a better player.

Whats is my GOAL is to be consistent in winning baccarat game , just like a senior player like you, kiddo thats inspire even more.

small or big unit , it doesnt matter right now......

Let see 3 months from now where will i be as nor player.......once again thank you.

Good luck and more winning shoe for you.....