Jump to content


Legacy Players
  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


daytrader77459 last won the day on January 4 2016

daytrader77459 had the most liked content!

About daytrader77459

  • Birthday 03/09/1963

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

daytrader77459's Achievements


Newbie (1/14)



  1. Hi Ellis, Nice to hear again on PJ, perhaps PJ can post shoes he won at Tunica in the NOR+ thread. It would be very helpful for us! Esp ahead of the upcoming April seminar! We need to have many shoes posted and reviewed using NOR+ so players can get a good feel for bankroll ups, downs, using U1D2. And really nail down Mode 1 vs Mode 3 switches off the 2nd bet results. Great job, PJ! Pls share shoes, bets, when u hv time to post! Thx. Regards, Daytrader77459
  2. Hi, PurpleInk, RD is about playing so-called "rain drops" type shoes where Repeats dominate over Opposites. The O/R count is heavily negative, and may flux for 3-4 points against - but then returns back to more negative again. Also, 1s are much lower than average, and the best RD shoes have 4s and 4+s being Most Common or at least high above average. RD1 is analogous to playing only Repeats - but with Mode 3 (winning 3rd bet). RD1 has one Singlet between Streaks of Repeats (or 3 ZZ - like PPPP B PPP). After the PPPP B P - attack for 2nd P. RD2 is similar but now there are two Singlets - PPPP B P BBBB. It is sort of a Mode 2 with 1 OTR, or a failed Mode 3 and then 1-u loss OTR and back to the Repeats again. In general, I do not like RD2 nearly as much - in my database, having two Singlets often is best played F/SS or TBL. You must watch the O/R flux and range of change. RD strategy needs and is fueled by Repeats - so that O/R score needs to turn back neg quickly. Ellis, Keith - HELP! I may have used RD1 and RD2 incorrectly. Perhaps RD1 is for a ZZ, and RD2 is for a ZZZ. However, I have used RD1 as 1 Singlet (ZZZ) and RD2 as 2 Singlets (ZZZZ) from a playing experience perspective. Sorry for the unintended confusion of nomenclature!!!! Please correct and/or add to my very simplified cash-game player's perspective. PurpleInk - I have not seen many RD2 shoe types over the past few years on the Strip. I have seen many F/SS, and TBL, and RD1. Also, if 1s are below avg, and O/R is neg, and 2s and 3s above avg - then you can obtain similar results using RD1 and OBL. In fact, Ellis may even recommend OBL over RD1 where 2s and 3s are heavy. But the results will be similar b/c of the powerful betting methods that he has taught us with 123 or U1D2, etc. Hope this helps - look at the old threads. There are RD sections there - just have to sort and print out those threads and piece it together. Happy gaming! Daytrader77459
  3. Hi Way2fast, Great - I know other BTC members and NOR students will really appreciate your tons of real cash game experience with NOR! Look fwd c u there! Way2Fast - last 3 days I played total of 9 shoes (really only 1/3 shoes) at you know where - our 2 favorite properties. Went 8 winning shoes, 1 break-even shoe - hit +45 units. Max bet 3u ever. One shoe was break-even. Had 8 shoes that hit +6 u per shoe. Three shoes gave back one loss each as I tried to see if NOR momentum would continue or not - so had 3 shoes +5 (total 15u) and 5 shoes at +6 (total 30u) = grand total of +45 units! I focused on very tight NOR and SAP parameters - and noted that every shoe somewhere would have triggers to signal the correct NOR method. Once locked in, Ellis' NOR strategy and betting 123 was so fluid and hit my per-shoe target of +5 units very quickly, and tried for more (greed!). Only one shoe required playing thru some wins/losses past 20 hds. The rest of the 7 winning shoes breezed thru and hit +5 or more under 20 hds! I am getting much better playing with NOR - but still using the metrics to avoid the tedious OBL terrain for myself. But on S40 and F/SS triggers - being very tight and selective and waiting - really paid off! FYI -Way2Fast is one of the most organized, and consistently disciplined gamers I know. And, we have played together many times now, playing NOR, playing "sniper" baccarat, together. And, Way2Fast and others we play with - deal with real $$$ levels. Mistakes, poor playing conditions, fatigue, etc., affects our win/loss bottom line! Ellis has produced several cash game "specialists" in the BTC membership for both NOR baccarat, and also BJ. His methods are robust and his focus on tight table and shoe selectivity is right on target! This is how we play. Attend the seminar - and get your personal questions/doubts answered by cash game practitioners of NOR. Watch and/or join when playing after the seminar and in between sessions! Don't miss this one. Regards, Daytrader77459
  4. Hi Ellis, Keith, I have spoken to some, and u know people wait to last days, or just show up and pay at door. I will be there, and will try to ask my BTC playing colleagues to attend also. Key point: for baccarat players, the explanations for NOR+, M1 vs M3, and coupled w U1D2 betting, my own live games have shown it works well! Any serious gamer should not.miss in depth talks on M3! Look fwd c fellow BTC players there at the NOR+ workshop! Regards, Daytrader77459
  5. Hi, Oz1, One more point about how I use NOR - I simply do not play OBL well at all. My rate of winning shoes in OBL "weather" is not very good. So, all my metrics and confluence triggers are focused to identify momentum trends in S40 and F2/F3 (or TBL or RD1/RD2) biases. I am certain Ellis and Keith and others can identify and play OBL much more strongly than I can. For example, I know that Way2Fast is a very strong OBL player as he is able to play sequential bets! This is necessary to win in OBL shoe games. Given this perspective, I have worked the metrics to filter out as much neutral and OBL type shoes. BTW - I do play OBL once in a while with the "sniper" baccarat approach. If the shoe is showing OBL - I will only try to go bet on the 2nds as my primary target. That's it, simple, quick. I have some success with this sniper mode - but playing thru sequential hds w OBL - for me, this is just painful and must be avoided for my comfort zone. Regards, Daytrader77459
  6. Hi, Oz1, I looked over the shoe you provided below. Your question of OBL vs changing over to a Streak (either F2/F3 or RD1/RD2) approach is a very good question and indicates that you are really studying NOR in detail. For many NOR players, the weakest areas (plenty of room to improve) include: 1. The desire or feeling or need - to actually be betting into the shoe all the time - every hand and GUESSING the correct NOR strategy. Better instead - let the shoe play out its O/R counts and SAP events slowly and at the SHOE'S pace (not at the player's expected pace). Look for specific O/R triggers to guide you into the correct NOR strategy. 2. The inability yet - which will come after more practice and debriefs and experience - is to develop acute "situational awareness" of the dynamics and flux of the O/R vs SAP events vs Mode 2/3 changes based on the player's win/loss outcomes. Let's go over your shoe below: 3. After the 1st 13 hds - P vs B was nearly equal at 7 vs 6. No strong bias. 4. The O/R count was fluctuating from +2 to -1 and then back to +2. This flux range of 3-4 O/R values again provides no strong bias. 5. In looking over the SAP events, the Least Common is "3" at zero. In having a slight O/R bias to +2 and LC 3, one could argue a lean towards S40 with M2 and go OTR on a "3" in a row. However, thus far, I would not consider OBL as there is no dominance of 3s or even 2s at this time. I would also not consider Streak after hand 13 - the O/R count bias to the upside is not indicating the use of any Streak strategy for now. I would not yet have made any bets to this point if played live cash game with my rule base. 6. But then look at the sudden Banker run with Hand 18 (now Banker at 5 iar). Look how the O/R dropped immediately from +3 (Hand 14) to a score of -1 by Hand 18. This is my trigger for a Streak bias kicking in hard. Stephen or Ellis or Keith may prefer O/R dropping down to -2 or more. But the rapid 5-point drop in the O/R consecutively over 5 hds is my trigger. 7. Also note that LC is still at 3. This means that Strong Side play should be F2 (LC 3). Oz1 - you can then play out Hand 19 all the way thru the end of the shoe. Even with the Player side showing shifts of 2s vs 3s, there is plenty of profit there playing out F2/F3 with a 123 U1D2 type schedule. This is how I would have been "guided by the shoe metrics" of the O/R and SAP events and the O/R range and O/R direction in a combined dynamic perspective. In summary: 8. No strong indication from my perspective for OBL - since I prefer to see excess of 2s and 3s and less 1s for OBL shoes. In the first dozen hds, the O/R is supportive of poss OBL, but the events of the SAP 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, - just did not make it a clear OBL shoe for me. 9. Also, in the first 18 hds, the O/R was in a 4-5 point range hovering near zero - again not indicative of any Streak trigger. Well, that's it for now - I hope you can get an idea of how I wait for "confluence of triggers" (O/R rapid drop of -5, plus 5 iar, plus LC 3) before acting on the SHOE's guide that Streak program is kicking in. This is similar to the way we trade monitoring program trading triggers in the S&P futures for rapid momentum moves. Or tracking big block volume trades which track large institutional trading program triggers. It cannot be hidden. Same with the NOR idea - the best NOR shoes will have confluence of supportive metrics and the confluence triggers happen quick and hard and simultaneously! As Ellis have repeatedly insisted and stated - we must choose only to play the best shoes with the strongest biases (whether it be table bias, shoe bias, color of deck bias, O/R bias, SAP bias, or P vs B bias, etc). Oz1 - the shoe provides tons of immediate info - many times, best to adopt the "lizard brain mentality" of just basking in the sun and doing nothing. And then act only when the shoe triggers confluence of its metrics. I have tons of live cash game shoes recorded that have validated this concept of confluence of triggers. Way2fast and I play this way in Strip casinos with large unit size - so we have to be very precise and tight and selective before engaging the shoe at hand. I have learned to enjoy the idea that doing nothing - letting hds go by as the O/R count is drifting and SAP counts nearly equal, and P vs B near equal - the best strategy is to WAIT. Or try Ellis' neutral net betting approach (but is much more complex). Hope this helps more than confuse you! Keep up with your research and questions as you develop your own unique NOR approach. But NOR remains the strongest combo, and coupled with Ellis' bet sched of U1D2 or U1D1, or 112 or 123 4, etc. - NOR easily provides winning shoes at a high % rate > 80% in our database. Good luck! Daytrader77459
  7. Hi, Oz1, Good ideas for playing a tight game format. Using NOR and the 112 or 123 or U1D2 schedules can often turn even weak shoes into mild winning shoes at the very least! Those horrible (-8) losing shoes are rare if using NOR with a clear thinking process. Also, very good idea to protect your stop loss points - so you can fire off at least two sets of 3 bets before hitting (-8). That is why I prefer 112 to start until I am at least +3 or better. And I look to exit asap at +5 after 2 losses on winning shoes. Daytrader77459
  8. Hi, Ellis, Great details and analysis! This shoe came off last week in one of the major Strip properties! And, I also in fact played out of S40 into a TBL format in light of the 2 LC count. Often, especially with LC 2, I find it just much more straight forward to deal with TBL instead of F2/F3. Either one, the O/R count and range and direction is less important than "just following the ZZ and streak runs" that Ellis described well. Thank you. Daytrader77459
  9. Keith, Way2fast, Great job on plays and details of decision-making biases! As Way2fast stated - playing thru recorded shoe history is full of hindsight bias traps! Much better training wise to have a NOR player call or type out shoes 1 decision at a time - like thru GotoMeeting or Google Chat or etc. Then we would not have "seen" the shoe type history - and really have to think thru and bias our decisions off the O/R, the SAPs, etc. More realistic and more challenging - all leading to improved NOR/NOR+/SAP gaming skills. Regards, Daytrader77459
  10. Hi, BTC members, I just wanted to post an "easy" shoe - but would like to see how the experienced NOR players would handle the 4 iar pattern in an S40 shoe game. Take a look at this shoe: P1111111133141 P21131242121 P411113111321 P1542 How best to play this shoe? Obviously started off w S40 - but use NOR+? Or use 123 4? Or straight to U1D2 or U1D1? How best to handle to 3-4 or more consec losers in real-time cash games? Also how best to handle the chgs in modes from M3? This shoe also when played early can be played as a TBL shoe type. But sticking with S40 - would you consider chg to any other NOR strategy? And if so, when? These are the typical "situational awareness" questions I ask myself when playing thru real cash games. BTW - seeing the above shoe notation - is too easy. Playing without hindsight bias - and practicing as such - that is where we can learn to gain confidence and trust in NOR/SAP. Look fwd to your input. Thx. Daytrader77459
  11. Hi, K1, Very good - look fwd to some collaboration and play w u. Once u have studied NBJ, I'd suggest u focus towards WCB as it is a much easier tactical BJ game to implement and more consistent. As Ellis, Keith, Aegis21, have all indicated - team BJ play is very possible and benefits from clumping (if shoes identified as such). However, team BJ plus a table full of NBJ/WCB players as 1 team (with some sacrifice hands) is a very strong way to go. Rt now I play solo - BP in spot 1, SPs in spot 2 and spot 3. I play WCB in the BP spot 1 position. I try to play sacrifice hds in spot 2, 3 - but using WCB tactics also for spots 2, 3 (which is different than the more elementary guidelines from the Team BJ Parlor manual). Pls keep us updated of your study and research/tests with NBJ, WCB - and when we can begin and record/document. Be a great fun project! Thanks, Daytrader77459
  12. Ellis, Keith, BTC members, BTW - the nature of my last post is to determine and meet up with experienced team BJ players that are active right now. I have yet to fully achieve the fantastic results that Ellis achieved with team BJ play in the Bahamas (although Ellis did mention the best team play is to combine team members plus some additional factors from NBJ/WCB - but this would complicate team BJ plays considerably). I'd like to continue real-time active BJ team work to try and achieve the Bahamas results. My results are positive - but always wonder if playing 7 spots would significantly increase positive results. I'd also like to record and debrief team BJ plays - without having to require all team members to be well-versed in NBJ or WCB. I know Ellis, CarlosM, Mad Dog, would strongly recommend use of NBJ/WCB for solo play. But I prefer to experiment with more on team play BJ so it can be much more FUN and profitable still, to the many less experienced BTC blackjack enthusiasts. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. Regards, Daytrader77459
  13. Hi, Ellis, Keith, Aegis21, CarlosM, BTC members, I have been using team BJ approach now for some time in Vegas - using 6 dks and playing 3 hds in spots 1,2,3. BP is spot 1. Then play as near to team BJ approach. Normally start of playing basic strategy until at least 2-3 shoes to get rhythm of the 6 dks. BTW - I don't sit at tables where they have shuffle machines that switch out 2 different 6dk colored shoes. I sit at hand-shuffled 6 dk tables. I have observed very frequently that no matter how many steps is tried, like add a spot, or remove a spot, or random vs dealer strategy, etc., it is best to play minimum bets for all BP and SP spots until there is real evidence that clumping has started or is already there. Unfortunately playing 3 hds for myself, it can take at least 3-5 shoes minimum. My question to the BTC members: is any of the BTC members currently and actively using Team BJ on a consistent basis? And recording detailed results, and observations? Aegis21? Chaz? Bluetri? I believe aside from Ellis and CarlosM's exploits using WCB that playing team BJ is really the most simple and relaxing way to play. But I'd like to see if others have success in the east coast or Florida or the Gulf regions. Ellis also mentioned that 8 dks should be good for team play. I realize team BJ play is not easy esp if have to meet up with team members on routine schedules, etc. But, I'd love to really attack team play opportunities with BTC members who also have some desire to exploit team BJ. And record and debrief details! Ellis - good opportunity for your own Team Ellis BJ movie? Or a good fun BJ book for game excitement reading like "Burning the Tables" genre? Please post your team BJ exploits (if any). I believe there is much more room to explore team BJ (esp w 5-7 hds vs only 3 hds). Regards, Daytrader77459
  14. Hi, Ellis, "You're always looking and watching the "bias" of the shoe. If you're running S40 and the shoe turns into a giant streak on either side, the bias has just changed! If you break the shoe up into roughly a set of three sections, it may look different in the third section than the first section. " Do you play NOR or NOR+ much more frequently via changing NOR strategies? Or changing the modes? If you were to change from S40 to F for example, at what metric would you make that change? Some potential metrics can include: 1. Change in O/R from positive to below (-2). 2. Change in O/R direction from highest down by (-3) from highest O/R count? 3. Perhaps suffering 4 consecutive losses? 4. See 3s and 4+s events occur back to back? Just trying to get a better idea as "when" and by what metric is best to adapt and shift to another NOR strategy. Stephen in his NOR Boot Camp dialog mentioned about O/R counts changing direction by +/- 3 in the O/R count. But this happens so frequently - it would cause constant switching from one NOR system to another. Precisely what would you recommend to trigger to alternative NOR strategy? Thank you. Daytrader77459
  15. Hi Stephen, In NOR Bootcamp training, u mentioned change of OR count by +/- 3 was indicative of trend chg of OR count, thus implying adapt to correct NOR strategy. R u suggesting NOR strategies be applied and changed mid shoe w all OR changes > +/- 3? Often, most shoes will hv OR counts drifting easily by more than +/- 3. For example, all consec 3 losses would chg OR trend. But, would u chg NOR strategy after 3 consec losses I hv played NOR w single strategy primarily based off OR, SAP events (LC,MC), and modes 2, 3. But, I hv not been switching NOR strategies. I play thru as per orig NOR plan and adj w modes. Ellis, any ideas on how best to adapt to OR chgs by +/- 3 or more? Or using OTR, modes, sufficient to keep NOR players from chgs NOR strategy once or more times per shoe? Thanks for both of ur inputs! Regards, Daytrader77459
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use