Edgonsal

I played a shoe at Mohegan Sun in CT Monday morning and just tried it with 4D B1131211221221 P1122131171 P112132312112 P1411 I tried to predict the next outcome based on the counts (I wrote a "P" or "B" next to each column for each hand result) and picked the majority of the next predicted outcome and then circled the correct previous column result. It was well over 50% correct in predicting. BTW if the 4 columns (P/B - O/R - O/T - OO/TT) showed 2 P's and 2 B's - I skipped the bet and recorded the result. The strongest bet in this shoe was TTBL reaching a plus 10 at times. I wouldn't have even looked at that if not for 4D. Food for thought I realize that this isn't the exact way that 4D should be played but I just wanted to post this shoe for practice and share my thoughts. Comments and/or suggestions are always appreciated

If you go to the upper right hand corner and type "practice shoes" in the Advanced Search box - you should find some shoes there to learn from. Read everything that's offered and you'll be on the right track. Good luck!!!!

Hi Keith. I have tried to access this forum as well with no luck. Can you please advise how to gain access? Thanks, Ed

Best wishes to Ellis for a full and speedy recovery , Ed Gonsalves

The first shoe looks like an OTB4L - you could go OTR after 2 losses in a row for one bet than right back to OTB. (Would work very well with all of those 2's and 3's) The reason for going OTR after two is that nothing went over 4 iar. The second shoe would work very well with S40M1 (TBL) those three 5 iar's would get you a quick win after only 21 hands. (You only had three 2's in this shoe so you would be winning most of your 1's, 3's 4's and 5's. You would lose to the 2's that follow 2 iar or more but would win your first 1 of 2 iar bet following a 1)

Hey kileau, ALL SHOES always look easy after the fact. It's what we do at the table that counts. How soon did you start betting in this shoe? OTB does look good in the first seven hands. However, after the first 12 hands - you had three 1's (MC), one 2, one 3 and one 4. I would be thinking S40M1 (TBL) here. In your first twenty plays you only had two 2's which - you still win 2 bets in your 4iar, 2 bets in your 3iar and 3 bets in your 5iar. Your next 21hands - had only two 2's again. Still strong for S40M1. Your next 19 hands had only one 2. S40M1 is for low 2's only 5 in your whole shoe. The other point to always consider is when to go OTR in OTB - its always your option to go OTR (for one bet only) after 2 losses in a row (rather than three) if that's what the shoe is showing you. If you keep S40M1 in mind - you should have an easier time.

You're missing out on a lot without the manual to guide you. Best of luck

How do you post your picture on here? I uploaded it and it's in my profile, but it won't post? Hope that someone knows how, Thanks, Ed

I didn't ******BIG SHOUT OUT TO KEITH***** Ellis just replies to the threads - that's why

A modest gambler is normally a winning gambler . We all learn from someone and now we can all learn from you and the other members of OUR forum. Such a great concept!! Keep sharing buddy - Thanks

Awesome post Dark, Motivating and true!!!

Great post OZ, I love progressive thinking. After all, We are only picking either player or banker. Heads or tails in a coin toss Money management is what wins in the casino!!! I try to remember that at the table before I enter what I like to call "The 51st state - The State of Confusion" LOL Picking Player or Banker is centuries old now - I wonder how many have gotten in right? Thanks for your input. Would be fun to meet you sometime Ed

I've played at the table with Dave Gunas at Mohegan a few times. (Never saw him win - Go figure????). When I saw him, he was playing around with dragon bets. He hit a 30 to 1 which put him up and a couple of ties. He didn't leave when he hit a reasonable goal so they took his money. He is very personable and has great energy!!!! Maybe I just saw him on a bad day? I've used net betting on my scorecards and in the casino. It easy to do and it works. I've done it for years now when trying out new approaches. Personally I enjoy playing together with a partner. Helps break up the boredom

Hey Guys & Gals, Just want to share some thoughts about the NOR manual and more importantly this private forum. First the manual : - It can be a bit much at first to digest until you break it down to the basics. IMO - it's update time (maybe an online addendum with some illustrated sample shoes and the most recent changes) I personally believe that the manual should be updated every couple of years to keep up with the times. As the quality of our players improve, so should our manual for learning. I found the illustrated Sands shoes very useful Also a direct reference or even better the actual illustration of the sample shoes for all current 3 NOR systems would make it easier for all to understand. The concept of NOR is great and very logical. Ellis is a true professor by leading us to learn from studying these pages again & again. Not simply giving us all of the answers - making you figure it out and ingrain the material in your brain as second nature. Hope I don't sound too much like a teacher. After all, I have been accused of lecturing on occasion LOL That's my manual review - hope that I'm not out of line. The Forum : This has been such a pleasure and soooooo helpful working together. A huge THANK YOU to ELLIS for all of his hard work and dedication for teaching us ALL!!!!! The members on here are truly a class act and always eager to help. THANKS TO ALL IMO - If we all share our ideas than we can really limit those shoes from hell from kicking our butts! We should post some bad shoes and ask each other for thoughts and experiences of how to think outside of the box to either beat them or at least survive them - MM, when to switch systems or leave the table. Let's make this a common practice - IT WILL HELP US ALL!!! Post some good shoes and why they worked. What prompted us to choose that System and why. Dr. E (Ellis) will always aid us in our thinking and clarify the best approach. (He won't lead us astray) Let's continue to make this place the best site for "BEATING THE CASINO" Thanks for reading this and hopefully keeping this thread going by adding your thoughts:) Ed

Most shoes that I tested worked well with a 2 man system Usually +8 to +10units within 35-40 hands. The bet progression is the tricky part. I like the 1,2 but maybe a 1,2,3 U1D1 would be better? Some shoes would have been better with S40 & OTB rather than S40M1. Scorecard is easy O/R (if you want) P - B "space for score" S40 column - OTB column CIRCLE YOUR WINS and units bet in S40 & OTB columns I'm thinking of a 16 unit bankroll for two people. Try it and let me know what you think