From the BTC Private Baccarat Forum

[Guest]

Re: Discussion of the 4D

Hey Ellis, great to see that you are really excited and that goes for me too! NOR / NOR+ has been a

great success for me in the past few months. I am a quiet person at the tables and the dealers all know me well at my local casinos

to the extent that they peer over to see my card as to what I am doing and I' now had three dealers request that I teach them,

of course I decline and believe or not... Three weeks ago, one dealer asked me if I was playing NOR! I REPLIED..."no".

I was actually playing NOR+. So I didn't lie. He scratched his head and said it sure looks like NOR I don't know if he is a member

but he did volunteer info that he is confused as to what what bias to play, so I left it at that and continued to play quietly and win

as usual.

BUT NOW... 4D , ok. You have my attention... I would like to learn more about this and a sample card layout would be helpful.

FYI, my wife now knows that I am making money at bac and she was delighted when I showed her my secret bankroll and gave

her a portion of it in cash to pay for our Vacation in Hawaii of which is where I am now. I plan to go to Vegas in Dec so if there

are any members there I would like to meet and exchange ideas with, Also.... We plan to go to HK again and do a short trip to

Maccau again and play some Bac there and hopefully meet with members there.

LIFE IS GOOD. And I'm sure I will be traveling more often now... Gee this 4D sounds like it will be light years from the aging

"Twister" concept back in 2008. Remember that Ellis?

Oh... G2G. Wife wants to go out to the beach!

CC

This is all music to my ears CC! In fact I think I'll place a copy in the public forum. But even the newer members, your

post will build their confidence and provide a picture of what lies ahead for them. I had just got finished telling the members

that we have MANY members who seldom post. They are playing well and would rather spend their time playing. But I often

hear from them and I often play with them.

You learned that trick from me didn't you - giving a portion of your winnings to your wife after each trip. That way, instead of

complaining that you're leaving yet again, they tend to kick you out of the house.

CC and everyone: You get to a stage where what you are doing becomes interesting to everyone around the table -

players, dealers and pit bosses alike. Just tell them to go to "beatthecasino - all one word". We like to get members that way and

we like to have experienced dealers on our forum. MANY of them play too! And we pick their brains as much as they pick ours.

We always have several dealers on the forum. They teach us about their side of the table. No, I'm not concerned about them

learning our secrets. Unlike the common streak and chop systems on the internet, there is no casino defense for NOR.

In fact if you have some beatthecasino name cards made up you can say "tell them who recommended you" and you get a hefty

sponser commission. I frequently pass out such cards in the casino.

Yes CC, I certainly remember Twister. It was all part of the evolution how we got to where we are. And just because we are the

most advanced Baccarat forum in the world, doesn't mean we won't advance even further.

We've been in uncharted waters a long time now.

[Keith Smith]

Great if I look enough on the internet I can find negative comments about literally anything I want to.

[bluetri]

I would love to read the blog. Would you mind sending a link in a PRIVATE MESSAGE. I think this person most likely is just trying to hock his own system, but it might be fun to blitz his blog...

[Guest]

one of your ex students have blog, and there he sead that s40, 40N, f2,f2, sap, lc and all that on the long run is nothing better then simply guessing of P, B...?!

That is about as logical as picking a club at random from your golf bag.

[netket]

http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7447

is this the blog you refer to

[bluetri]

IMSPIRIT...simulations and sour grapes. Don't be lead by the lost, 991. Those guys don't play real casinos, they play with math problems. In a word, LOSERS

[Guest]

he dont sell anything he is just tolking about how ellias won 40 shoes in a row and thats why its s40..if its good system it would be s400 or s4000...and how it fail on the long run

I hear some pretty silly things every day. That comment certainly takes the prize for today.

[PeterUK]

Hi 991,

I discovered his blog too... His theory is good 'in theory'... If the cards are truly randomised and that things will normalise in a single shoe... Real life casino is totally different and games are somewhat biased towards the casino with new shuffling technology...

You'll discover a lot here like I have... In just a few weeks... I took the plunge and am really enjoying it... :-)

An investment which you'll won't regret and a real bargain for the teaching... Much safer and greater return than playing with stocks and share (and they don't call that gambling?!)... More in the private forums ;-)

Regards,

Peter

[Guest]

Look, blogs are a business. If you are going to write a blog you will have a much bigger audience if you write something that appeals

to the 99% of people who can't beat casinos rather than to the less than 1% who can.

And if your goal is to beat casinos, you are far better off listening to the few people who have done it on a regular basis

rather than to people who think it is impossible.

This all started with a private Baccarat member wanting to share his lifetime results with other members. We have MANY winning members.

I thought this might be something interesting to the general public. It wasn't meant as something to start arguments with the

uneducated.

Sure, Virtuoid at ImSpirit thinks it is mathematically impossible to beat casinos. And for him, it is. You can't beat a casino with Math.

You have to fight fire with fire. And there are ways to do exactly that.

Virtuoid watched me beat 4 different tables at two different casinos, 6 shoes in a row, to the tune of a 26% Player Advantage (ROI)

without ever betting more than 3 units. - a feat that is mathematically pretty much impossible. But I wasn't using Math - I was using

the casino's own tactics against them. Some people can learn how to do that - but not everybody. It takes at least an average I.Q.

But I don't say that feat makes me an expert. The fact that I have been doing that full time for 30+ years in both BJ and Baccarat.

THAT is what makes me an expert! Ha, or maybe I've just been lucky.

[PeterUK]

hello peter , i belive that NOR is good and i want to buy it but here in serbia we cant buy things on internet and cant even bet on online casinos but we have grat live casino here in capital city belgrade....so if u can pls give me some tips about nor and ho to play it i would be very happy...thank you

Dear Blackjack991,

As the NOR system was developed/formulated by Ellis, you are best to get in touch with him and see what he advises...

Regards,

Peter

[DarkValefor]

Hi 991,

I discovered his blog too... His theory is good 'in theory'... If the cards are truly randomised and that things will normalise in a single shoe... Real life casino is totally different and games are somewhat biased towards the casino with new shuffling technology...

You'll discover a lot here like I have... In just a few weeks... I took the plunge and am really enjoying it... :-)

An investment which you'll won't regret and a real bargain for the teaching... Much safer and greater return than playing with stocks and share (and they don't call that gambling?!)... More in the private forums ;-)

Regards,

Peter

gambling is same as stock shares and forex if you did your home work u are investing if not u are gambling same goes for everything else

[Guest]

Look, as any Mathematician worth his salt will tell you Baccarat cannot be beat by Math. Math gives you no edge. But those same

Mathematicians will also tell you that the very high Casino Baccarat profits - 15% - 26% of all your buy-in money cannot be explained

by the 1.25% commission casinos charge to deal the cards. Casino profits are far higher than commission would dictate. In fact

Baccarat is consistently the highest profit game in the casino. In fact, casinos could eliminate commission altogether, as Horseshoe tried,

and Bac would still be the highest profit game in the casino. How is this possible in a supposedly 50/50 game plus commission???

Answer: Only one answer is possible: Tried and true Casino tactics learned from years of experience.

Like BJ, a game totally corrupted by casino tactics, there is only one way to win - To understand the tactics deployed against you

and use the casino's own tactics against them.

Your blogger here simply does not grasp that basic fact of gambling. You MUST have an edge. But Math can't give you one.

I CAN! But I can't always play for you. I CAN teach you IF you are willing to put in the effort required. Some do! We have

many record keeping winning players on this forum that play units anywhere from $5 to $5000. This proves beyond reasonable doubt

that Baccarat CAN be beat by perfectly normal students.

And others write blogs and blame their woes on anything except where the blame actually belongs - on themselves.

[Guest]

ok guys first thing is that its not me who sead that,i just saw that on the blog and i see that u know that guy...its normal that peopls are not sure in that because there are many systems on the net and all of them are scums...and its not easy to give 600 like that...i would be very happy to talk with you , shere shoes come to seminars and so on...but im in serbia ( europe) and here we cant buy things on internet and america is far so all i can do is to figure out my own system

Good grief! A Serb! Nobody ever gives me easy problems to solve any more.

OK, here is what you do:

First learn what an Opposite is and what a Repeat is:

An Opposite is when the opposite side wins relative to the prior play.

A Repeat is when the same side wins again.

Keep a running count +1 for an Opposite and -1 for a Repeat.

All shoes, at the end favored either Opposites (a + count) or Repeats (a - count).

You job is to figure out early in the shoe which way the shoe at hand is headed.

If the count favors + you flat bet Opposites

If the count favors - you flat bet Repeats.

Some shoes won't favor either - the count keeps going back and forth across 0.

In this case, don't bet at a 0 count. But bet that the count will head toward 0.

See that?

Don't be greedy - just go for one or 2 units and quit.

As you get better at this you can increase you goal to 3 or 4 units but no more than that.

If you want to make more money you are better off to increase your unit size.

When you've made enough money, then buy NOR with your winnings

and we will teach you how to really play.

Got it?

[DarkValefor]

Good grief! A Serb! Nobody ever gives me easy problems to solve any more.

OK, here is what you do:

First learn what an Opposite is and what a Repeat is:

that is what i needed i have being straggling to save money for nor and capital

now i can make money for nor and capital

An Opposite is when the opposite side wins relative to the prior play.

A Repeat is when the same side wins again.

Keep a running count +1 for an Opposite and -1 for a Repeat.

All shoes, at the end favored either Opposites (a + count) or Repeats (a - count).

You job is to figure out early in the shoe which way the shoe at hand is headed.

If the count favors + you flat bet Opposites

If the count favors - you flat bet Repeats.

Some shoes won't favor either - the count keeps going back and forth across 0.

In this case, don't bet at a 0 count. But bet that the count will head toward 0.

See that?

Don't be greedy - just go for one or 2 units and quit.

As you get better at this you can increase you goal to 3 or 4 units but no more than that.

If you want to make more money you are better off to increase your unit size.

When you've made enough money, then buy NOR with your winnings

and we will teach you how to really play.

Got it?

this is what i needed i have being straggling to save money for nor and capital now i can make money for nor

[DarkValefor]

only problem is when u pick up neutral shoe, and u bet flat...you go in - like that...

you see a neutral shoe can never be 01-101-101-101-1 from 1 to 60 hand if that is the case casino close down long ago

a shoe will some how looks like this 1,2,1,0,1,-1,-2,-3,-4,-5,-4,-5,-6,-5,-6,-5,-4,-3,-2,-1,0,-1,-2,-1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0 a extract

from my record in dublin online live casino site if u flat bet from 1 to 37 hand of cause u don't win not just that end of 37 round you will get eaten up by the 5 % comm

u cannot change the nature that fighting 37 enemy you cannot win all and sometime less then half but u can choose to fight the enemy that u are likely to win even if u lost it won't kills u the most injure a little, and ur gain is larger then ur lost, fight all 37 someone will kill u.

same logic as art of war

same logic as i ching ( book of change )

[DarkValefor]

a system and money management = shield and sword it can never tell u what to do, u have to learn to use them

[Guest]

only problem is when u pick up neutral shoe, and u bet flat...you go in - like that...

That is correct and tells me you know more than I thought so let's go another step..

In a neutral shoe you need to be betting OTB4L. That is opposite to what won the hand before last. A simpler way to

accomplish that is to bet that an opposite will follow a repeat and a repeat will follow an opposite. That puts you

mostly in tune with a neutral shoe. Now long runs either straight or ZZ will hurt you. You could opt to go on such runs

but W/O further training, your best bet might be to stop betting whenever you lose 2 bets in a row and wait for the run to end.

[DarkValefor]

otb4l is neutral shoe best bet, but only problem is that i am not so good in figure out when to bet O,R or otb4l cuz i am begginer in this system, but my oppinion is that shoe cant always go like this 1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1,0 ,1,2,3...so when the streak ends i think its time for otb4l, because it can go like this 1,2,3,4,5,4,5,6,5,4,3,2,1

some time it also goes like this 1,2,3,2,1,2,3,4, 5,6,7,8,9,8,7,6,5,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,9,8,7,6,5,6,5,4,3,2,1,0,-1,-2,-3,-4,-3

go for best fit s40, f2, otb4l don't guess what to use let the shoe tell u what to use

[DarkValefor]

in few days i am going to France-Paris....when i finish my job i am gonna visit one casino near Paris...i am not NOR player but i will try to use some things that i have learned here...wish me luck

try to get a pillow n the wall before u bang

[DarkValefor]

just one good neutral shoe and it will be great

if no neutral shoe what u plan to do?

[DarkValefor]

in my opinion, the neutral shoes should be the most common....if it start like neutral i will go otb4l...but if it change i will see what event is the most common and i will adjust system to it

we teach to bet on less common u bet on most common on great!

[bluetri]

The trend is your friend. ...

[DarkValefor]

The trend is your friend. ...

he haven learn to fit in trend, he is trying to say that he should start with otb4l when shoe look like otb4l, then change when it dose not look like

simply guessing, he still haven learn when to start or stop and how are trend form.

[DarkValefor]

i think that i should follow trend, and not go against it

betting on less common dose not mean go against a trend u still need to learn best fit, don't try this can fit anot cannot change when it looks like, u try clothe also need to know ur size and the shirt size first right? u see try big shirt confirm can fit but will not comfortable, try small shirt look might fit will also not comfortable, if u know the shirt size and ur size the chance of getting non comfortable shirt very very less right?

a real casino is like a real battlefield u can die or get injure there, if u go to a battlefield without learning to shoot ur gun right,

it is as good as suicide.

[DarkValefor]

i am just saying that lets say shoes starts like opposits, and i am on opposits, and after some time 3 and 4 are most commom...why wolud i be on opp, when i can play rep, or even otb4l shold be better than opp

hahaha see think the other way round in a 18 streak player every 3 or 4 u change how many u miss and do u know if u play this way how many time u change ur system in bad hit rate time. this way u don't optimize when ur hit rate high u can't control, u don't minimize when ur low hit rate

ask yourself three question:

one question have u try ur way u think on a online real casino free play?

two how many time u try?

three what is ur total profit? negative or positive?