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The cure to Ellis' headache...


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Ellis,

PREFACE: NOT BLAMING ANYONE HERE - JUST TRYING TO ORGANIZE THINGS A BIT.

After poking and prodding on here for 4 months now and reading your recent post about having to repeat instructions over and over I see what is needed.

BTC needs to add a non-postable sticky thread - at the top of each forum - that is labeled "4D Instruction Manual" for instance. You can then go in and post ( copy and paste since you already wrote them) the instructions ONCE. You can update as needed, but no one alters it.

Then we add a Questions forum for discussion. NOTHING gets posted on the sticky Instruction Manual thread.

This way, all new members have a starting point for NOR, NOR+, NOR SAP, 4D, BaS40, BaOTB4L, etc.

To me, that's what's been lacking all along - a definitive instruction manual IN ONE PLACE for all systems except NOR, which already has a manual.

Yes, it's in the various threads - somewhere. But why have everyone dig - and more importantly - ask you the SAME questions over and over regarding instructions on how to play. No wonder you feel overwhelmed all the time!

Thoughts?

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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Ellis,

PREFACE: NOT BLAMING ANYONE HERE - JUST TRYING TO ORGANIZE THINGS A BIT.

After poking and prodding on here for 4 months now and reading your recent post about having to repeat instructions over and over I see what is needed.

BTC needs to add a non-postable sticky thread - at the top of each forum - that is labeled "4D Instruction Manual" for instance. You can then go in and post ( copy and paste since you already wrote them) the instructions ONCE. You can update as needed, but no one alters it.

Then we add a Questions forum for discussion. NOTHING gets posted on the sticky Instruction Manual thread.

This way, all new members have a starting point for NOR, NOR+, NOR SAP, 4D, BaS40, BaOTB4L, etc.

To me, that's what's been lacking all along - a definitive instruction manual IN ONE PLACE for all systems except NOR, which already has a manual.

Yes, it's in the various threads - somewhere. But why have everyone dig - and more importantly - ask you the SAME questions over and over regarding instructions on how to play. No wonder you feel overwhelmed all the time!

Thoughts?

Wow! 46 views and not ONE reply. C'mon guys, are you not seeing what I see?

Ok. Let's treat this like any common college course. What are the three elements included in ANY course you could take?

1. Teacher.

2. A course book.

3. Examples explaining the theories taught.

We have a teacher (Ellis).

Where's the book (NOT counting NOR)?

Where's the sample shoes showing how to apply the course material in real play situations?

All we have to do is merge what is already on this site - currently in various locations in their respective threads - into an easily accessible format. AND possibly add example shoes (4D especially).

Presto! No more confusion. No more Ellis having to type the same reply 40,000 times over and over....

Oh yeah, almost forgot there is a fourth element: P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E

Once the first three are in place, if you don't do your own due diligence on the 4th element, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Thoughts?

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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Wow! 46 views and not ONE reply. C'mon guys, are you not seeing what I see?

Ok. Let's treat this like any common college course. What are the three elements included in ANY course you could take?

1. Teacher.

2. A course book.

3. Examples explaining the theories taught.

We have a teacher (Ellis).

Where's the book (NOT counting NOR)?

Where's the sample shoes showing how to apply the course material in real play situations?

All we have to do is merge what is already on this site - currently in various locations in their respective threads - into an easily accessible format. AND possibly add example shoes (4D especially).

Presto! No more confusion. No more Ellis having to type the same reply 40,000 times over and over....

Oh yeah, almost forgot there is a fourth element: P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E

Once the first three are in place, if you don't do your own due diligence on the 4th element, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Thoughts?

Right, I've been asking for volunteers but...

Keith can do the stickies but I can't seem to contact him lately.

While we are at it, the forum needs a new front page.

And we need the New members start here thread made into a sticky.

I can either write manuals and instructions or organize. But I can't do both.

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Right, I've been asking for volunteers but...

Keith can do the stickies but I can't seem to contact him lately.

While we are at it, the forum needs a new front page.

And we need the New members start here thread made into a sticky.

I can either write manuals and instructions or organize. But I can't do both.

Agree 100% Ellis.

No, I never intended you to do all - that's what TA's are for LOL. I think if we come up with a plan on how we want it organized we can then delegate tasks to a few volunteers. Count me in!

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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I agree. Along with rules and manuals I think sample score cards with a shoe play by play for EACH system should be posted. Would make teaching for Ellis easier (less headache for him) and learning for us easier to understand as well. It's the one major thing missing from this forum. Lol even my old math and science text books from high school had many examples and samples of all the different equations and formulas in the back pages with "play by play".

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Glen is right on the money !

This forum needs organization ! Badly !

Also , I see a lot of promises ...."OK , will get to that in a few days , or OK , will post so and so....and it never comes about !!

Bobby has asked a few times for shoe examples on certain issue's, going back maybe a month ago.....I may be wrong , but shoes never posted ! Am I correct on this Bobby ?

I do notice tho....if there is a paid seminar in the works or webinar....than there is immediate response to questions/etc. !

Seems to me Ellis is doing the best he can alone , considering past health issues and etc.

Don't see Keith much on the forum .......maybe its not his part of this business ? Seems , for the most part he only handles the dollar portion of it ?

Hopefully the forum can be revamped and made more user friendly for new folks.......??

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Yes Johnny, I've been asking nicely for Ellis to please post play by play score cards since I joined the forum in Dec. I know I sound like a broken record with that but it's the only way I can fully comprehend how to play. I know I'm not the only one and there have been others asking also but still no score cards. There was a prior post by Ellis where he was trying to explain something and he said " I don't if you guys can see numbers in your head like I can but..." well the answer to that is some of us can't see the numbers in our head like he can so this is why myself and others keep asking him to post those numbers on score cards. It's frustrating but like the broken record I'll keep asking.

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I'm going to try and create a blank scorecard in the S4D format today and post it.

I know with my sloppy handwriting and not keeping to the 20 lines format makes it even more confusing and I apologize.

So I decided to standardize it, have you guys give it a look and let me know. Been a little lax the past days due to "life issues" getting in the way (flat tires to fix, hectic work schedule, etc.) LOL....

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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How about a separate form just form the downloading of shoes,possibly could be casino name,time and hand shuffle or shufflemaster machine.I could spend hours reviewing my old shoes and other players.It never gets boring!Getting back to everyones concerns,the more shoes that you can review the better you will grasp these systems.I spend hours reviewing everyday and never take a day off.My best advice is to take an old shoe and replay it.PRACTICE,PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  • 1 year later...
Glen is right on the money !

This forum needs organization ! Badly !

Also , I see a lot of promises ...."OK , will get to that in a few days , or OK , will post so and so....and it never comes about !!

Bobby has asked a few times for shoe examples on certain issue's, going back maybe a month ago.....I may be wrong , but shoes never posted ! Am I correct on this Bobby ?

I do notice tho....if there is a paid seminar in the works or webinar....than there is immediate response to questions/etc. !

Seems to me Ellis is doing the best he can alone , considering past health issues and etc.

Don't see Keith much on the forum .......maybe its not his part of this business ? Seems , for the most part he only handles the dollar portion of it ?

Hopefully the forum can be revamped and made more user friendly for new folks.......??

Well Kevin had a good idea. Write one hard cover book - actually it would be a 3 ring binder.

Put our best systems in it with complete instructions, shoe examples and play by plays.

We could also put in about 500 blank shoes on score cards ready to play for practice.

We could have both factory shoes and regular cards.

Then we could use the forum for questions only.

I used to charge $100 a minute to answer questions on an 800 line. At&T provided the 800 lines and collected the money.

But today computers can perform that function.

And when you ask a question, you could refer to the page number or the shoe number in your hard manual.

That's pretty much how I sold NBJ and it outsold BTC Baccarat more than 100 to 1.

See, it's pretty easy to organize a book because you already know what you are going to cover.

But once you start a forum you have virtually no control over what directions it takes.

I'm guessing about 99% of the forum is repetition leaving about 1% actual meat.

But a book has an index and 200 pages could cover everything worth while on tha forum.

We could put 500 practice shoes in a separate binder. (130 sheets of paper)

Price? Well I sold NBJ for $445 back in the '80s and '90s. It was about 200 8.5 X 11 looseleaf pages and would make a pocket book of about 400 pages.

And I sold my 500 game test book for $50.

I never got a complaint about the price and I never got a return.

I keep hearing about how computer sales are going to bust wide open but that is not going to happen in my lifetime.

I'm guessing in current dollars we are talking under a $1000 dollars including the test book.

Another advantage is we could go back to doing Sales seminars.

See, in a sales seminar you have to have a product they can see and hold in their hand, examine and take home with them.

You can't sell a promise that will show up on their computer. Nobody will buy thin air. Most don't trust computers at all.

We filmed our seminars to use to teach others how to conduct a successful seminar. I had 6 Reps doing seminars all over the US, Canada and the Bahamas. They covered their own advertizing and expenses but I paid them 50% of their gross sales.

Those guys made a LOT of money. Jerry Patterson alone made about 6 million. It's a good job opportunity for the right people.

The most I ever personally did in one night was $87,000 in Vegas and $60,000 in Minniapolis.

So how long would such a project take?

Well I'd have to get someone to do the games so I could devote full time to the book.

Writing it, getting a pro to proof it and putting binders together - we are probably talking 3 months.

How would BTC get paid? Well they would maintain the questions forum and could probably charge a small subscription price'.

But they would be in charge of sales and could even perform sales seminars.

I'm really too old to be doing semiars But I could do a training seminar we could film.

I'm pretty good at it. Back in the day I sold more than all my competitors together.

Seminars have to be designed to get maximum sales. You have to follow a script and you have to do it with ENTHUSIASM.

You need a helper to take credit card orders, If you do everything right, the orders start before you finish your seminar script.

What do you guys think? Would you like to hear more about it.

I already know the best cities as well as those to avoid. It's a great job for a person with the right talent.

You are your own boss and you can make good money - real good.

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From Ellis -

"I'm guessing about 99% of the forum is repetition leaving about 1% actual meat."

There's a little more meat on the bone than that, but it takes lots and lots of effort to get to the good stuff. And I'm sure that Ellis has answered most questions multiple times.

I think that a book or more detailed manual would be great for us beginers. Worth the price for new players and this would add to BCT's bottom line. The forum would still be needed for the networking that provides much quicker responses.

BCT is a business and would better serve its customers if had more organization (and make more money).

Druck

(German for print / press)

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