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I have spent the last two days reading and playing Norm's shoes and some of my old shoes also.

Thought I had everything down pat, then I ran into this shoe I Had played at Harrah's a couple years ago.

I have been picking my method when I see a 3 indicating that method. IE: +3 for S40, -3 for F and crossing over o three times before one of the other two have reached 3.

Here is the shoe.


Hope I did that right.

Anyway, on play 7 the shoe had crossed 0 for the third time, so I picked OTB4L to play.

It is every apparent that the Worm had turned as soon as I jumped in.

My questions are:

Did I jump in to soon?

Is there something I should be watching to know when to switch during the shoe?

Thanks for any help


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Ellis is this what is called a mixed shoe?

Bob when you got in it seemed like an otb4l but by the time that first run was over the or count was-3 and it basically

climbed from there. This seems like this was an for shoe based on the or count. Let's see what Ellis says. Mike

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Spent yesterday running 10 real shoes I had cards for.

The 10 shoes went like this.

shoe method played

1) loss -6 OTB4L (this is the shoe that I started the thread with)

2) loss -8 S40

3) win +10 OTB4L

4) win +10 OTB4L

5) win +11 S40

6) win +9 F

7) win +6 F

8) win +9 S40

9) win +10 F

10)win+9 S40

Is this what would be expected. I have always won 6 out of 10 before for +15 to +20 for the 10 shoes.

If this is a normal win on 10 shoes. NOR really is the best method in the world.

Thanks Ellis


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Yep, had been public since 2010 checked in maybe twice a year.

Choose to go with Benson, opps there went a couple grand.

Just bought NOR and received access to the rest of the forum.

All my testing so far has given results way above my expectations.

Hoping to make the seminar next Saturday.

Just make sure I am doing this right, then I will begin play with real money.


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Don't you guys ever play easy shoes? OTB4L, NOR's base system played M3 all the way since the OR count starts +, gets to +7 then back to +6 where most would quit.

However, it's pretty hard not to note by play 15 that we have a runs following runs situation and we should therefore switch to S40M1. If we do that at play 16 we have a very easy +14 W/O any more 3 bets.

S40 M3 we go OTR after 3 losing bets.

S40 M2 we go OTR after 2 losing bets

S40 M1 we go OTR after 1 losing bet

M1 likes streak straight or ZZ and it particularly likes runs following runs ST or ZZ.

Any questions?

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